SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: WEEK 120: Eyes Wide Shut

We need to establish that this is not just about perverted rich people that like sex. This film is about sex magic, there are rituals taking place. At the end of the film when Alice and Bill take their daughter Helana to the store to shop, they walk by a game called Magic Circle.

I think it is also about the boredom the very rich face coupled with their ability to buy whatever they want, and hence create any reality they think will entertain them and massage their.... egos.
 
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Nice catch!!!!

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After Cruise goes to the party Kidman tells him of her nightmare where they were in an unknown location naked and she was terrified and she was angry because it was Cruise's fault. She somehow dreamed that she was naked and surrounded by people watching her have sex with many men but how did this happen? How did she dream what Cruise saw? She tells Cruise she wanted to laugh in his face so she laughed as loud as she could.

I don't remember her being angry at Cruise. I remember her being afraid. I also think it is also the nature of dreams to just know things....
 
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There is more stuff but I've used all the pics a single post will allow me to use.

This is super creepy. Nice catch. With any other director I would say they were reusing extras to save money...Not with Kubrick though.
 
That scene was intense because as you watch it, you know what Alice is getting at as she slowly unveils the story and the look on Bill's face is one of horror. Very notable scene.

Kidman's laughing at the start of this scene is horrible. Thank goodness she is usually in dramatic films. I think her acting is tremendous....except when she laughs, both in this scene and when she was laughing in her dream. Cruise, on the other hand, completely delivered. His expression at the end of the scene was phenomenal.
 
So Cruise and Kidman go to their party. There they both encounter (but ultimately do not engage in, sexual temptation). William is not-so-subtly goaded into having a threesome with two dazzlingly nubile models, all while a suave Hungarian puts the charm on Kidman. Kidman shows him the wedding ring in reply -- but we never see William actually reject the two girls, as he's whisked away by an overdose case... he might actually have taken them up on it.

I don't think he would have. He struck me as sincere when he told his wife he was faithful. It think the attention was something he was used to getting that fed his ego, and that he considered his due.
 
Think about this... it says a lot about Cruise's character... he is devastated that his woman has had sexual fantasies about other men. The notion is shocking to him. It ruins his entire self-image.

Which speaks to @Cubo de Sangre's comment about how this is about "a man being confronted and confused by his own naivete, and in a way that shook his entire existence to the core."
 
But this is absurd! All women have sexual fantasies, just as men do, don't they? (wait, they do right, I'm not just jostling here? Umm... help me out people!) It's also very hypocritical, as he himself probably fantasizes about getting in the haystack with those two coquettish models. But Cruise can't accept what he has learned. The revelation wounds him profusely.

Speaking as the only woman, you are right. While men and female react to sexual situations very differently, women do fantasize!

I just listened to a training on sexual abuse and harassment, and the speaker brought up the fact that men are very visual and have instantaneous physiological sexual reactions to a person that attracts them, while women hold off for about 7 hours. Hence why most men have to wait until the third date to get some. Made sense to me. Also made me think that Nicole's reaction to the sailor was not true to women. It is true to men. But the story was written by a man and directed by a man.... Women would see someone who attracts them and maybe fantasize about them later, the reaction she described where she said she was willing to leave everything behind did not feel feasible to me.
 
The sex he has been encountering is... dysfunctional. Perverted, somehow. Whatever it be a child pimped out by her dad, the illicitness of a prostitute, AIDS, or most malevolent of all... the upper-class orgy where a call-girl gets herself killed trying to save him. The party, in particular, shows an absolutely vile socio-economical angle on sexual desires, a girl dying so that the rich can play their perverted games in secret. This is not the sex of intimacy, of love, the sort of sex marriage is supposed to contain. If he wants that, he has to return to Alice.

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As she's being seduced by the older man, she's already drunk and clearly drifting from faithfulness.

In this scene I felt that she was supposed to be acting like she enjoyed the attention. I don't think she had an intention of straying. It was also there to show the contrast between the attention she was getting from strangers and the lack of attention she got from her partner.
 
Ahh, the film that got our HERO Kubrick killed...

I would slash your tires in order to see the 20some minutes that were cut from this movie.

I say we eat the Rothschilds and their ilk.

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I love what you are doing here!

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Kubrick layered his films deeply with symbols and Easter eggs. Trying to figure out what he's saying is the entire point of a Kubrick film. The Shining, 2001: A Space Odyssey, A Clockwork Orange, and Eyes Wide Shut are all difficult to piece together. I don't feel like this film is an open and shut case of a couples fidelity issues. It seems like a lot of hoops to jump through for the sake of marriage counseling. These elite circles may do this as a form of religion rather than out of boredom.

What was Kubrick trying to say about Bob Hope? We know Seth McFarland was basically exposing Harvey Weinstein before anyone in the public ever knew about it.

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When the frat boys shove Bill and call him a f*g, what school are they from?

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Looks like Yale University.

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What high profile secret society is from Yale?

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This is super creepy. Nice catch. With any other director I would say they were reusing extras to save money...Not with Kubrick though.

Kubrick was known to be obsessive about details. I don't think there was any way in hell he took two extras from a party scene and placed them center of the frame, in the last scene of the film, walking away with Helena following them. Not Kubrick, he doesn't make that kind of mistake.
 
This movie has induced some slight paranoia in me. I feel like Tom Cruise walkin around in this bih.

I’ve still been thinking about it since I watched it. They made it appear to be a facade, but people still ended up dead. With closed cases and not many questions asked.

I really do believe that Kubrick was exposing elite cults here and paid the price.

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I disagree that she almost cheated on him. She described a reaction to a person. At no point did she act on it. One of the premises of the film is whether simply desiring someone is equivalent to acting on said desire, or in Cruise's case almost choosing to act before feeling desire (the prostitute hitting on him on the street versus him approaching someone he wanted.)

She said that she was scared that he was gone, and scared that he was still there. She said she was ready to give everything up.

Why would she be scared that he was there? That sounds pretty close to being ready to cheat to me.

<Fedor23>
 
The girl at the party said "Get out before it's too late" I think it was too late for her. Why else would she have tried to save him? He didn't even know her. Maybe after making this movie, it was too late for Kubrick.. I'll leave that up to the more qualified posters..

It is theoretically the same girl that he saved from the overdose at the start, Mandy. It was certainly a stretch that she would recognize him.
 
This movie was interesting because to me it is a study in male fear towards female sexual desire. I mentioned earlier that I recently attended a training where they said that men physiologically respond with sexual desire instantaneously when seeing someone who attracts them visually. Women notice, but take seven hours to decide whether they are ready to act on it or not. This is why most dudes get lucky on their third date. Amirite fellas?

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I’m not saying we don’t see people we find hot and think about them and fantasize. I am saying that women usually will not act immediately after just seeing someone attractive, (except maybe if there is a lot of alcohol involved., but that is another movie.)

We be more like

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I believe that Kidman could see a hot sailor and choose to fantasize about him. I do not believe that she would have felt the intense mind numbing passion she described. I believe that is something a man might feel, and subsequently fear his woman might also feel. I also do not believe a woman would be cruel enough to describe this desire in such a cruel way to the man she loved. Again, this struck me as a manifestation of male fear. I felt the same way during the scene where Kidman described her dream to Cruise. Dreams are weird. I don’t know if a woman would dream something like that or not. I do know that most women would not describe it in such a cold and heartless way. It strikes me as something scary that men would imagine and fear. OMG my girls is with all these dudes while she is laughing at me. Not part of the female psyche! But definitely something a dude might worry about.

So we end up with a story about what men fear is going on in women’s heads. Remember it is based on a story written by a man (Arthur Schnitzler), built on a screenplay written by men (Kubrick and Frederick Raphael) and produced and directed by a man. The humor in it, is that they are transposing their own experiences onto the other sex. The film was also a study in male fragility in the face of female desire. Again its funny to me, coz I don’t find the desire to be real. Just the idea that she desired another man was enough to send Cruise into a tail spin. Even though he was probably getting hit on all the time, he saw the attention as his due, and never thought about sex from the female desiring it perspective.

A couple of other thoughts…

When Cruise was saving Mandy, he had her look at him multiple times. IMO this served two purposes. It showed that he saw her as a real person, and also set it up for her to recognize him at the orgy. She would have perhaps looked in his eyes enough to recognize them as the only visible part of his face when he was wearing the mask. I find it to be a bit of a stretch, but the only thing that makes sense.

The scene with the daughter who hit on Cruise after her dad died was a classic case of transference. This situation did seem likely to me. It happens in a lot of professional relationships where the cared for turns to the care giver. It is why shrinks are NOT allowed to sleep with their patients. He had been taking care of her father in his dying days, he had provided comfort to her, they had spent more than 7 hours together and she associated safety with him. It did not make the feelings real, legitimate or long lasting though.

Kubrick has said that the movie is a study in whether imagined infidelity carries the same weight as actual infidelity. I would argue it does not. Everyone fantasizes, Cruise just never stopped and thought of his wife as a woman with her own desires that could be apart from his. His behavior is much more condemnable than her fantasy. The way she told him about it though was unnecessary and heartless.

I think Kidman was definitely displeased to see her husband with two young coeds on his arm. Important to note that she didn’t know what he was up to when he disappeared for hours to help Mandy. She may have been ruminating and imagining that he banged them. That combined with his cavalier attitude that he never worried about her cheating on him may have made her feel taken for granted, and that may have led to her desire to make him feel the insecurity she felt, hence how she told him about the sailor.

Kidman’s acting was pretty good, except when she laughed. Ugh! The two scenes where she does (when she was stoned and when she was dreaming) were painful to watch. Perhaps they were painful for her to act if they felt as out-of-female-character to her as they did to me. Had nobody on set been around stoned people before, or gotten stoned themselves? That scene was horrible.

I think they portrayed Kidman as this rich socialite who once had a career (until the art gallery went under) who was dissatisfied with her life. Perhaps it was this dissatisfaction in the face of Cruise’s accomplishments that made her be so cruel to him. Again, this behavior did not ring true to me, but in the movie was necessary to trigger the rest of the events that took place.

Finally, I cringed during the entire scene at the party at the start of the movie. People had no concept of respecting personal space! If some asshole came up to me and drank from my glass, I’d be tempted to smash it in his face.

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I would not act on the temptation though, coz that is not how us chics roll!
 
I can't help what Kubrick has done with his films. Some of the stuff I post is for fun but a lot of it is undeniable. The piano player being named Nightingale is no accident, same with the stars of Ishtar at the first party. Kubrick presents us, in a subtle way, with mysteries that many viewers don't ever pick up on, like how did Alice dream what Bill saw?

I also think you can feel watched....so she felt watched by him, or she wanted him to watch. Its her dream so its based on her emotions and needs (or the needs and emotions of the dudes who made the movie)
 
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