Elections ***Second Democratic Primary Debate play-by-play thread: Night 1. ***

[AndroidRage]

Yeah he did, Bernie almost did it himself at one point.

There is no plan to deal with people currently employed in private insurance, billing, or medical and pharmaceutical manufacturing in the M4A fantasy world.

M4A implementation in a single President's term is not going to happen in your life time.

The only jobs lost would be private insurance and billing. Why would medical and pharmaceutical manufacturing jobs be lost?

And with that same argument I suppose you think we should prop up coal mining? Or should we move forward and any of the people who are misplaced can go back to school and or find work elsewhere.

Also. Was ACA not implemented under Obama? It took 5 years at most to get social security going and that was before we had personal computers and the internet. Getting M4A up and running in 4 years is definitely doable.

 

[AndroidRage]

I'm not even against the idea of M4A... I'm against the complete lack of long term planning for it.

What long term planning is needed and that you find lacking?

 

[Gregolian]

I'm not even against the idea of M4A... I'm against the complete lack of long term planning for it.

Whenever it comes up in debates it feels like they're doing the "we'll do it!"
"Um, how?"
"IDK, just let me office and I promise it'll be done in 2 years"

The only jobs lost would be private insurance and billing. Why would medical and pharmaceutical manufacturing jobs be lost?

And with that same argument I suppose you think we should prop up coal mining? Or should we move forward and any of the people who are misplaced can go back to school and or find work elsewhere.

Pharmaceutical companies wouldn't be making money by the fucking LNG tanker load like they are now so chances are the office staff and shit would start to get cut back quite a bit. I know a girl who's brother works for Pfizer in their office in the like research branch and I asked him one time what would happen if overnight the US picked up say the Japanese or Western Europe form of healthcare and he said the staffing would probably be cut by at least 25% with the research division getting hit hardest because of lack of funds.

 

[Rational Poster]

The only jobs lost would be private insurance and billing. Why would medical and pharmaceutical manufacturing jobs be lost?

And with that same argument I suppose you think we should prop up coal mining? Or should we move forward and any of the people who are misplaced can go back to school and or find work elsewhere.

It's pretty clear by this post you lack fundamental understanding of the scale of the medical industry in America.

Even something that sounds so simple as "controlling costs" will have a cascading effect that would impact hundreds of thousands if not millions of jobs.

 

[kpt018]

Only Sanders and Warren seemed to recognize the injustice of people suffering health problems having to spend thousands of dollars out of pocket a year on their treatment and spending hours of their time filling out forms and arguing with insurance company representatives to cover their bills.

I disagree. Nearly every candidate has a plan that would ensure everyone is covered. Some candidates just don't want to nuke the entire system but to add to what we have.

Your comment rings perfectly true if you were describing Republicans instead.

 

[Mikeydontgiva]

This clown show is ridiculous.

It's really a shame that this is the best our country has to offer for the Presidency.

 

[AndroidRage]

Whenever it comes up in debates it feels like they're doing the "we'll do it!"
"Um, how?"
"IDK, just let me office and I promise it'll be done in 2 years"

Pharmaceutical companies wouldn't be making money by the fucking LNG tanker load like they are now so chances are the office staff and shit would start to get cut back quite a bit. I know a girl who's brother works for Pfizer in their office in the like research branch and I asked him one time what would happen if overnight the US picked up say the Japanese or Western Europe form of healthcare and he said the staffing would probably be cut by at least 25% with the research division getting hit hardest because of lack of funds.

There will still be the same amount of demand. Even more demand actually with more people getting treated more often and no more need for people rationing their medication. They would just not be allowed to price gouge the American people any longer.

About that research, some of that is paid for through our taxes now. Only the companies that benefit from that same research can then turn around and patent pharmaceuticals that were developed with our tax dollars and make milli9ns of dollars off of it. Not all research is paid for through taxes. Not what I am saying. And hey, if big pharma wants to for whatever reason cut back on production or R n D then they I guess they don't need that patent they were given. And another business will take their place. Isn't that how capitalism works?

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

Lol the Dems are so divided. We might not have to worry about you guys for a looooong time.

 

[AndroidRage]

It's pretty clear by this post you lack fundamental understanding of the scale of the medical industry in America.

Even something that sounds so simple as "controlling costs" will have a cascading effect that would impact hundreds of thousands if not millions of jobs.

Is that what happened in Europe or does modern medicine the world over all depend on Americans getting fucked over and paying 10x the amount for the same medicines?

 

[superpunch]

Is that what happened in Europe or does modern medicine the world over all depend on Americans getting fucked over and paying 10x the amount for the same medicines?

Does Europe have medicare? No.

We already have medicare for some --not medicare for all-- and pay more tax dollars on healthcare than any country in the world except Norway.

 

[Amerikuracana]

He looks anemic and a pencil necked geek. He has no hope of winning president, now or ever.

A pencil neck geek could get my vote, if they were sincere and came off as smarter than the field. That's not the case here.

 

[Rational Poster]

Is that what happened in Europe or does modern medicine the world over all depend on Americans getting fucked over and paying 10x the amount for the same medicines?

Europe had the "convenience" of having their entire government systems literally ripped to shreds by the Nazis. They were able to build new systems from the ground up, organically, over a period of decades.

And yes, they benefit GREATLY, from the American system absorbing costs in R&D, etc.

The current system of Medicare/Medicaid in America didn't just spring up overnight... it took two decades or more for every state to adopt the program.

 

[AndroidRage]

Does Europe have medicare? No.

We already have medicare for some --not medicare for all-- and pay more tax dollars on healthcare than any country in the world except Norway.

Countries in Europe have one form of single payer or another. So, yes they do have M4A and pay less PER CAPITA than we do. M4A will cost less. It has been proven in study after study and in the real world.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Also, I think it's safe to say after the recent debates the DNC isn't capable of rigging shit.

Yeah, they couldn't "rig" friendly moderation from the MSNBC crew the first time.

 

[superpunch]

Everyone 'recognizes' that. You're not special, snowflake. What most people 'recognize' is Socialism has failed everywhere and we don't want to be Venezuela. We're already in debt and we can't afford your fairy tale unicorn pixie dust empty promises. Not now. Maybe later.

Universal healthcare would lower government spending. We already spend more government money on healthcare per capita than any country in the world except Norway. Then private spending about doubles it on top of that to 18% of our economy. Most countries spend half that. That 10% of our GDP freed up could quadruple the size of our military or pay our debt down.

 

[kpt018]

@Fawlty You were right, the questions/framing ended up being bad (I jumped the gun). And the limited time allowed for answers was very frustrating.

You can't have a wonky policy debate with 15 or 30 second time frames. It's ridiculous.

 

[Gregolian]

Europe had the "convenience" of having their entire government systems literally ripped to shreds by the Nazis. They were able to build new systems from the ground up, organically, over a period of decades.

And yes, they benefit GREATLY, from the American system absorbing costs in R&D, etc.

The current system of Medicare/Medicaid in America didn't just spring up overnight... it took two decades or more for every state to adopt the program.

I was going to ask "does't Europe use the same drugs from the same manufacturers as the US?".

The US is essentially footing the bill for prescription costs to be cheaper in other countries.

 

[superpunch]

Countries in Europe have one form of single payer or another. So, yes they do have M4A and pay less PER CAPITA than we do. M4A will cost less. It has been proven in study after study and in the real world.

Exactly -- they have medical care for all but not medicare for all. Their systems are amazing and make the US' system look downright evil and cost much less -- I would know; I'm living in one in Asia right now. I get full medical care and dental for $50 a month, and $50 a month from my employer. Similar systems are the norm worldwide. Medicare for all is just a soundbite because it sounds easy to understand and it's 3 words long. It's a disastrous policy.

 

[Prokofievian]

I was going to ask "does't Europe use the same drugs from the same manufacturers as the US?".

The US is essentially footing the bill for prescription costs to be cheaper in other countries.

No. The drug companies aren't selling their products at a loss in other countries. Prices are raised in the U.S. because they can. Drug companies can't charge an arm and a leg in Canada for, say, Insulin, because the Canadian government is a monopsony and thus controls the price. The drug companies still want access to the 3 million diabetics living in Canada. If they were forced to sell at a loss, they would just not do it. You guys are just getting buttfucked.

 

[AndroidRage]

Europe had the "convenience" of having their entire government systems literally ripped to shreds by the Nazis. They were able to build new systems from the ground up, organically, over a period of decades.

And yes, they benefit GREATLY, from the American system absorbing costs in R&D, etc.

The current system of Medicare/Medicaid in America didn't just spring up overnight... it took two decades or more for every state to adopt the program.

From everything I could find it looks like it took just 1 year to get medicare going. You may be mistaking when the term medicare was first attached to a bill that was passed by Eisenhower that was just for Military families. Medicare as we know it today was signed into law by Lyndon Johnson in 1965 and started in 66. I saw nothing about there being delays from state to state but if you could find something stating that I would love to read it to learn why that was.

Not sure what the fuck the Nazis and WW 2 have to do with providing healthcare to all citizens. We live in a democracy. We can pass laws and change things just as easily. I don't know why you think a war torn country can do anything at all easier than a country that is thriving.

And if other countries do greatly benefit from us paying so much more than it would be great to have single payer sort that out. That burden should be spread across multiple countries instead of just Americans. Our Government could then negotiate a lower price for us and these companies can then raise prices elsewhere to balance things out. But I am pretty sure that's a bunch of bull shit. Even if it were true, m4a would still be the best solution.