Social Scientists reject veganism: Meat is crucial for human health

[Scerpi]

Yeah... these studies are never tainted.

50 Years Ago, Sugar Industry Quietly Paid Scientists To Point Blame At Fat
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...quietly-paid-scientists-to-point-blame-at-fat
In the 1960s, the sugar industry funded research that downplayed the risks of sugar and highlighted the hazards of fat, according to a newly published article in JAMA Internal Medicine.

Hence the garbage food pyramids of the 70's/80's and the origins of the obesity epidemic.

 

[PG29 red0 Jr]

South American beef is delicious too. Eat at a restaurant that sources from Argentina. The 24 oz ribeye is $64. But totally worth it

I got invited to a BBQ that was hosted by some Argentinians. They were white and spoke German. I told them I noticed they spoke German, and explained in German that I spoke a little bit myself.

I never got around to asking what year their families moved to Argentina, but these were definitely Nazi families.

The beef they cooked was delicious though.

 

[Sano]

As advanced as we are in medicine, its embarrassing how far behind nutrition is. I heard a doctor say in an interview that in all his years of education, nutrition was about 2 weeks worth total... Shocking since our diet might be the #1 factor affecting our general health, along with exercise. But no... it's all easy fixes and pills.

Like how almost 100 year debate of what's healthier for cooking, margarine (or other veg oils) or butter. A study came out recent showing how butter isn't the devil many say it is.

The American Heart Association condmened the study? Why? Who the fuck knows.

Don’t believe the American Heart Assn. — butter, steak and coconut oil aren’t likely to kill you
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-teicholz-saturated-fat-wont-kill-you-20170723-story.html
Last month, the American Heart Assn. once again went after butter, steak and especially coconut oil with this familiar warning: The saturated fats in these foods cause heart disease. The organization’s “presidential advisory” was a fresh look at the science and came in response to a growing number of researchers, including myself, who have pored over this same data in recent years and beg to differ. A rigorous review of the evidence shows that when it comes to heart attacks or mortality, saturated fats are not guilty.

To me, the AHA advisory released in June was mystifying. How could its scientists examine the same studies as I had, yet double down on an anti-saturated fat position? With a cardiologist, I went through the nuts and bolts of the AHA paper, and came to this conclusion: It was likely driven less by sound science than by longstanding bias, commercial interests and the AHA’s need to reaffirm nearly 70 years of its “heart healthy” advice.

It was in 1961 that the AHA launched the world’s first official recommendations to avoid saturated fats, along with dietary cholesterol, in order to prevent a heart attack. This “diet-heart hypothesis” was adopted by most leading experts, though it had never been tested in clinical trials — the only kind of science that can establish cause-and-effect. Thus, from the beginning, the rap on saturated fats lacked a firm scientific foundation.

How is it possible these Government Orgs are still this far behind?? ... and that they make diet recommendations. Despite providing ZERO research to back up their claims.

Is it ignorance? Or something more corrupt? lol.. either seems plausible to me.

I think there's a lot of reasons for the lack of understanding of healthy dietary patterns. As you said, medical doctors have little nutritional education as that role is usually outsources to dieticians. Working in the health-care field, I know that the vast majority of health care professionals are well meaning but are either not well equipped to interpret the scientific data or they simply don't have the time. There is also no doubt that there are bias' and some organisations don't deal well with change, although they do update their guidelines over time.

In regards to saturated fats specifically, the majority of the research does seem to suggest that high quantities can raise LDL. On the contrary, there is strong evidence showing that unsaturated fats from nuts, seeds, avocados and fish can reduce LDL and the risk of cardiovascular disease. With that said, again, it has to be viewed within the context of your entire diet. If you generally eat healthy and exercise, any potential risk is mitigated and there's nothing wrong with adding some eggs, some dairy and some animal fats to your diet. There's a lot of nutritional value in something like eggs. However, it still seems that overconsuming those things isn't necessarily great and I think we can all agree that most trans fat and fried food is garbage regardless of quantity.

The AHA recommends about 6-7 procent of your total fats coming from saturated ones, and here in Denmark the recommondation is about 10 percent, which I think is more reasonable. This is the AHA statement from their website, which while lacking in nuance, I don't think it's necessarily bad advice for the average person:

There’s a lot of conflicting information about saturated fats. Should I eat them or not?
The American Heart Association recommends limiting saturated fats – which are found in butter, cheese, red meat and other animal-based foods, and tropical oils. Decades of sound science has proven it can raise your “bad” cholesterol and put you at higher risk for heart disease.

The more important thing to remember is the overall dietary picture. Saturated fats are just one piece of the puzzle. In general, you can’t go wrong eating more fruits, vegetables and whole grains – and taking in fewer calories.
https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/healthy-eating/eat-smart/fats/saturated-fats

 

[Spetsnaz77]

I got invited to a BBQ that was hosted by some Argentinians. They were white and spoke German. I told them I noticed they spoke German, and explained in German that I spoke a little bit myself.

I never got around to asking what year their families moved to Argentina, but these were definitely Nazi families.

The beef they cooked was delicious though.

That's pretty neat. Intriguing back story there

 

[rob mafia]

lol... Like who? Dr Greger?

@rob mafia Who definitely doesn't look like a malnourished alien or anything....

 

[Spetsnaz77]

I think there's a lot of reasons for the lack of understanding of healthy dietary patterns. As you said, medical doctors have little nutritional education as that role is usually outsources to dieticians. Working in the health-care field, I know that the vast majority of health care professionals are well meaning but are either not well equipped to interpret the scientific data or they simply don't have the time. There is also no doubt that there are bias' and some organisations don't deal well with change, although they do update their guidelines over time.

In regards to saturated fats specifically, the majority of the research does seem to suggest that high quantities can raise LDL. On the contrary, there is strong evidence showing that unsaturated fats from nuts, seeds, avocados and fish can reduce LDL and the risk of cardiovascular disease. With that said, again, it has to be viewed within the context of your entire diet. If you generally eat healthy and exercise, any potential risk is mitigated and there's nothing wrong with adding some eggs, some dairy and some animal fats to your diet. There's a lot of nutritional value in something like eggs. However, it still seems that overconsuming those things isn't necessarily great and I think we can all agree that most trans fat and fried food is garbage regardless of quantity.

The AHA recommends about 6-7 procent of your total fats coming from saturated ones, and here in Denmark the recommondation is about 10 percent, which I think is more reasonable. This is the AHA statement from their website, which while lacking in nuance, I don't think it's necessarily bad advice for the average person:

There’s a lot of conflicting information about saturated fats. Should I eat them or not?
The American Heart Association recommends limiting saturated fats – which are found in butter, cheese, red meat and other animal-based foods, and tropical oils. Decades of sound science has proven it can raise your “bad” cholesterol and put you at higher risk for heart disease.

The more important thing to remember is the overall dietary picture. Saturated fats are just one piece of the puzzle. In general, you can’t go wrong eating more fruits, vegetables and whole grains – and taking in fewer calories.
https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/healthy-eating/eat-smart/fats/saturated-fats

You absolutely can go wrong eating more fruits grains and vegetables. A lot of people have inflammatory responses and a myriad of other issues from those groups

 

[Sano]

You absolutely can go wrong eating more fruits grains and vegetables. A lot of people have inflammatory responses and a myriad of other issues from those groups

Had nothing to do with the post on saturated fats, but okay. Yes, some people have a reaction, allergy or intolerance to certain types of foods. That's where the individualised part comes in. Nightshades, legumes and berries are likely harder to tolerate on average compared to something like bananas, oats and spinache. Although legitimate fructose intolerance or vegetable allergy is rare.

That doesn't change the fact that high vegetable and fruit intake is associated with better health outcomes and less all-cause mortality. If you have an adverse reaction to certain foods then obviously that is important and you should limit or remove the intake of that food.

 

[44nutman]

Seems like every thing you eat is bad for you.
You cant even eat your old lady without getting cancer.
https://www.the-sun.com/health/7967868/oral-sex-hpv-risk-factor-for-deadly-throat-cancer/

 

[Spetsnaz77]

Had nothing to do with the post on saturated fats, but okay. Yes, some people have a reaction, allergy or intolerance to certain types of foods. That's where the individualised part comes in. Nightshades, legumes and berries are likely harder to tolerate on average compared to something like bananas, oats and spinache. Although legitimate fructose intolerance or vegetable allergy is rare.

That doesn't change the fact that high vegetable and fruit intake is associated with better health outcomes and less all-cause mortality. If you have an adverse reaction to certain foods then obviously that is important and you should limit or remove the intake of that food.

Relax brother... Its respectful disagreement.

These studies are often very misleading.

If you care to check out an alternative... Dr Anthony Chaffee.

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

lol... Like who? Dr Greger?

@rob mafia Who definitely doesn't look like a malnourished alien or anything....

Feel free to dismiss someone because they're fugly lol

How about Dr Kim Williams, cardiologist and former president of the American college of cardiology or Dr Valter Longo , biogerontologist , cell biologist and director of the USC longevity institute , or Dr Garth Davis ,medical director for the Comprehensive Metabolic Disease Management Center at Houston Methodist

I could go on

You know , medical experts, leaders in their fields over Rando journalists

 

[Spetsnaz77]

Feel free to dismiss someone because they're fugly lol

How about Dr Kim Williams, cardiologist and former president of the American college of cardiology or Dr Valter , biogerontologist , cell biologist and director of the USC longevity institute , or Dr Garth Davis ,medical director for the Comprehensive Metabolic Disease Management Center at Houston Methodist

I could go on

You know , medical experts, leaders in their fields over Rando journalists

Dr Anthony Chaffee. Lots of others. Subject matter experts. Objectively and convincingly debunk the "need" for fruits vegetables and grains.

 

[Scerpi]

Feel free to dismiss someone because they're fugly lol

How about Dr Kim Williams, cardiologist and former president of the American college of cardiology or Dr Valter , biogerontologist , cell biologist and director of the USC longevity institute , or Dr Garth Davis ,medical director for the Comprehensive Metabolic Disease Management Center at Houston Methodist

I could go on

You know , medical experts, leaders in their fields over Rando journalists

Ugly? Don't care about that. I'm commenting on how he looks barely more nourished than a POW. lol... And he's promoting Veganism will looking like that?

There's countless stories of long term vegans suffering debilitating health issues due to being malnourished only to quickly recover when they add animal products back into their diets. Be a vegan if you have moral issues with eating animals, completely understand. But fuck off with the supposed health benefits. Its not a superior diet if it fucking requires massive amounts of supplements to add in what your diet is missing. Or just eat some dirt I guess...

Oh... I see you suggested more Vegans as experts. I'm sure they're not biased with zero agenda

Yes, yes - Nice book. "How Our Obsession with Meat Is Killing Us and What We Can Do About It.

How about nothing asshole. It's not KILLING US!!! lol... The standard American diet is killing people. The only redeeming part of being a Vegan is that is forces people to cut 95% of the garbage they're currently eating. Like most "diets". Mediterrian diet, Paleo, etc... You know, the food most people have the hardest time cutting.

lol... Vegan? No thanks. I'm 51. I lost 65lbs 8 years ago. Lift weights at 4:30am every day. Eat exclusively meats and veggies. You know.. how people have eaten forever?

Resting HR is 60-70. BP is 120/65 on average. Have run several races - 1/2 marathons and 10k/5k. Get bloodwork done regularly and only my LDL is borderline. I'm fucking good. I'll even post before/pics. I get comments all the time about how I got to where I am. They seem disappointed when I tell them its just diet and working out like a maniac. No special pills or easy fixes.

I've also had issues with carbs in the past, especially grains and sugars. Made me extremely lethargic, sometimes to the point where I have to nap for a bit. I always just thought that was normal... until I cut them from my diet. No issues with most other carbs... love sweet potatos. Eat them with all kinds of foods. Dinner and breakfast. Regular potatoes? Puts me into a carb coma.

It's all fucking garbage, there's terrible info everywhere. Everyone's different. The people like me who eat mostly clean and the vegans/vegetarians aren't the problem. Its the massive amount of cheap, garbage processed food - either fast food or the box meals at grocery stores. And the tons of sugar or fructose people have in their drinks.

Looking back... the USDA, AHA and other "Experts" pushed all the "Healthy" grains on us as kids. Cereals, pastas, breads... etc. All the meals in a box. Awful. Now look where our kids are. There used to be a few kids in school who were overweight, forget morbidly obese. It has to be 50% now, with a decent portion morbidity fat.

 

[Scerpi]

Dr Anthony Chaffee. Lots of others. Subject matter experts. Objectively and convincingly debunk the "need" for fruits vegetables and grains.

Most fruits have too much sugar in them. I had to cut them mostly out.

 

[Spetsnaz77]

Most fruits have too much sugar in them. I had to cut them mostly out.

They're not natural either. Bastardized versions of nature's design

 

[emefer]

Sketchy... Considering meat and animal fats are what caused our ancestral brains to grow much larger... .

You can’t honestly believe this. Sounds like some bs a scientist in the pocket of big beef would say. How come lions don’t have big brains then

 

[emefer]

Eat like the Japanese. There's a reason why they live so long on average. Don't think they eat much red meat.

Every time is eat sushi my poo turns to thick brown paste for the next two days.

 

[Spetsnaz77]

You can’t honestly believe this. Sounds like some bs a scientist in the pocket of big beef would say. How come lions don’t have big brains then

You can't be serious... And of course no sense of irony.

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

Hopper talks about veganism and is currently the worlds strongest man. He's not pure vegan but believes in eating more vegetables.

He's not a vegan at all. Homeboy was eating a 14oz steak the night before WSM.

Believing in eating more vegetables doesn't mean your close to being a vegan lol.

 

[regmma123]

I got invited to a BBQ that was hosted by some Argentinians. They were white and spoke German. I told them I noticed they spoke German, and explained in German that I spoke a little bit myself.

I never got around to asking what year their families moved to Argentina, but these were definitely Nazi families.

The beef they cooked was delicious though.

Sounds like a real Sherfronter type of gathering there...

 

[badascan]

Theres nuance like with everything. Constant mindless consumption of anything is not positive.