Social SAT To add ‘Adversity Score’ to Capture Social and Economic Background

[nac386]

The output is to add diversity. Call it what you want. It's in the article at the end, to add diversity to the freshman class. My graduate degree is in higher education administration. I am somewhat knowledgeable about the how and why this works.

Diversity of socioeconomic status. Race is not included in this.

Read the criteria. It’s not racial.

This is assuming that adversity score does not include race. Since the parameters are coincidentally not fully disclosed, I suspect we'll see more of this:

They are fully disclosed and I already posted them in the strength. Race is not part of the adversity score.

 

[panamaican]

My great wisdom makes people think that but, no.

I was leaning Alzheimer's.

kidding. It's not like you're going to remember this conversation in an hour.

still kidding.

 

[The ScorpioN]

Diversity of socioeconomic status. Race is not included in this.

Read the criteria. It’s not racial.


They are fully disclosed and I already posted them in the strength. Race is not part of the adversity score.

The WSJ articles says: "The College Board declined to say how it calculates the adversity score or weighs the factors that go into it."
It's gonna be like giving Asians shitty "personality scores" before even meeting them at Harvard.

 

[JoshTehV]

I think it's a relevant detail.

Everyone who pays attention to these things knows that there are environmental factors that have effects on the scores. We all discuss it "Joe did XXXX on the SAT/PSAT/ACT but he's been taking prep classes since last year." "Wow, Lucy did XXXX on the SAT/PSAT/ACT and her family has been struggling to afford food on a regular basis."

If everyone is already discussing it casually there's no point pretending that it's not relevant.

Nature vs nurture, and the great debate on epigenetics. What a can of worms

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

I'm not 50. FFs.

LOL!

totally giving you a hard time.

 

[Arkain2K]

Now you guys are arguing over the semantics over this "fully disclosed" bs.

We know what the 15 criterias are, we know race is not considered, but the score itself (and more importantly, its itemized breakdown by criterias) wouldn't be "fully disclosed" to ANYONE but the college admission office.

I'd say for the students and their families who paid to take the test, their Adversity score is a solid UNdisclosed, and thus they have no way of knowing - much less dispute - any of it if the college admission office still gave them the shaft, when they are prevented from comparing their supposedly-objective scores with other kids.

Transparency is the greatest tool against corruption, and I feel like the College Board's decision to shroud the students' scores in secretcy is a missed opportunity here, especially now that we know how trust-worthy college admission offices really are.

This new number, called an adversity score by college admissions officers, is calculated using 15 factors including the crime rate and poverty levels from the student’s high school and neighborhood. Students won’t be told the scores, but colleges will see the numbers when reviewing their applications.

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

That one hit a little close to home I see lol

My post sure did <45>

 

[panamaican]

Now you guys are arguing over the semantics over this "fully disclosed" bs.

We know what the 15 criterias are, we know race is not considered, but the score itself (and more importantly, its itemized breakdown by criterias) wouldn't be "fully disclosed" to ANYONE but the college admission office.

I'd say for the students and their families who paid to take the test, their Adversity score is a solid UNdisclosed, and thus they have no way of knowing, much less dispute, any of it if they feel like the college admission office still gave them the shaft but aren't able to compare their supposedly-objective scores with other kids in their neighborhood.

Transparency is the greatest tool against corruption, and I feel like the College Board's decision to shroud the students' scores in secretcy is a missed opportunity.

I don't know how much value it has to the students. There's no obligation that the schools rely on the score when processing admissions nor is there any criteria by which the colleges must weigh the score when processing admissions. Kids will see a score and still have to find out if the college even used the score when making the decision, which the college isn't going to tell them.

But I can see an argument for disclosing the adversity score to the students if they request a copy. But even with that, disclosing the figure without adequate understanding of how the number is reached is just going to lead a ton of people alleging something without understanding what they're alleging. It's one to thing to know that they calculate crime rate into the score but what's the statistical model by which they do that? And does every student need that?

To provide enough information to properly inform the students would probably require delivering a tome of information to them along with the score. In my experience, it's often counterproductive to provide complex information to people who aren't in a position to really understand it. Especially when most people soliciting the information are looking to blame something for an outcome they don't like.

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

I was going to stick around and work hard so my kids have a good life, but I don't want to ruin their chances at getting into a good college, so looks like I'm gonna have to be a deadbeat and start blasting in every chick I find. Those colleges are going to be filled with my half sibling kids and I never have to work again.

As others already posted, keep working and get rich and they will get in easier than if they were living in poverty regardless of their academic ability. Donation money potential > diversity. Same reason front offices really dgaf what football/basketball coaches do to get recruits because if they are NFL/NBA bound, that is big money potential in donations 5 years later

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

“This [adversity score] is literally affecting every application we look at,” he said. “It has been a part of the success story to help diversify our freshman class"

this is racism.

poor white people don't exist?

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

You know what this is?

Another version of AFFIRMATIVE ACTION but in terms of College Admissions based on things other than Merits.

Complete and total bullshit.

Does it say they are taking kids with lower scores but higher adversity scores? Or kids with similar test scores but higher adversity score?

 

[Happy Man]

Now you guys are arguing over the semantics over this "fully disclosed" bs.

We know what the 15 criterias are, we know race is not considered, but the score itself (and more importantly, its itemized breakdown by criterias) wouldn't be "fully disclosed" to ANYONE but the college admission office.

I'd say for the students and their families who paid to take the test, their Adversity score is a solid UNdisclosed, and thus they have no way of knowing - much less dispute - any of it if the college admission office still gave them the shaft, when they are prevented from comparing their supposedly-objective scores with other kids.

Transparency is the greatest tool against corruption, and I feel like the College Board's decision to shroud the students' scores in secretcy is a missed opportunity here, especially now that we know how trust-worthy college admission offices really are.

All they are doing is keeping more white people out. It’s the whole goal.

Our children don’t deserve this fascism.

Two professor friends of mine say kids today don’t even know how to write paragraph form. That many kids in college have no business being there.

They were given, just handed grades to get them through highschool and then will have their asses wiped for them in college.

College professors say they face heat for failing many “diverse” students and they get the blame for a fucking adult college student being dumb as shit and lazy to boot.

Then these fuckwits come into the work force, get a quota hire, and then everyone else in the office realizes they don’t do shit and everyone carries their water.

And they then have a foot up for advancement as well, cuz quota.


This is how America fails, and gets trounced by Asian nations who simply won’t tolerate nonsense like this.

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

All they are doing is keeping more white people out. It’s the whole goal.

Our children don’t deserve this fascism.

Two professor friends of mine say kids today don’t even know how to write paragraph form. That many kids in college have no business being there.

They were given, just handed grades to get them through highschool and then will have their asses wiped for them in college.

College professors say they face heat for failing many “diverse” students and they get the blame for a fucking adult college student being dumb as shit and lazy to boot.

Then these fuckwits come into the work force, get a quota hire, and then everyone else in the office realizes they don’t do shit and everyone carries their water.

And they then have a foot up for advancement as well, cuz quota.


This is how America fails, and gets trounced by Asian nations who simply won’t tolerate nonsense like this.

What is Trump doing about it then?

 

[Arkain2K]

I don't know how much value it has to the students. There's no obligation that the schools rely on the score when processing admissions nor is there any criteria by which the colleges must weigh the score when processing admissions. Kids will see a score and still have to find out if the college even used the score when making the decision, which the college isn't going to tell them.

But I can see an argument for disclosing the adversity score to the students if they request a copy. But even with that, disclosing the figure without adequate understanding of how the number is reached is just going to lead a ton of people alleging something without understanding what they're alleging. It's one to thing to know that they calculate crime rate into the score but what's the statistical model by which they do that? And does every student need that?

I can't speak for "every students", but if I saved up my own money to take the test, I'm entitled to know my test scores, and compare it with the kids next door with the same socioeconomic background if I want to.

You seems to be putting a lot of trust into a fallable system that's still in its experimental stage, but I'm a big believer in check & balance. Look on the otherside of the coin: if there's anything wrong with the criterias breakdown or if the model could be improved, how can it be if it's shrowded in secretcy and no one are allowed to point it out?

If two apartment complexes across the street from each other have different scores in the "crime rates" criteria because they are in different zip codes, why DON'T you want to know?

If those "tons of alleges" reveals even ONE flaw and make the system better, I'm all for it.

In fact, the scores SHOULD have already been disclosed in details during the beta testing period and critical inputs from those who took the test SHOULD have already been solicited and considered before the widescale roll-out, unless the College Board genuinely believe what they came up with is already perfect in every way from the start and simply cannot be improved whatsoever from here on out.

 

[Joe265]

This is crazy. What ever happened to getting in on your own merits. I guarantee the colleges are gonna say we at least this many kids with X "adversity" score.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/sat-to...re-social-and-economic-background-11557999000

The College Board plans to assign an adversity score to every student who takes the SAT to try to capture their social and economic background, jumping into the debate raging over race and class in college admissions.

This new number, called an adversity score by college admissions officers, is calculated using 15 factors including the crime rate and poverty levels from the student’s high school and neighborhood. Students won’t be told the scores, but colleges will see the numbers when reviewing their applications.

Fifty colleges used the score last year as part of a beta test. The College Board plans to expand it to 150 institutions this fall, and then use it broadly the following year.

How colleges consider a student’s race and class in making admissions decisions is hotly contested. Many colleges, including Harvard University, say a diverse student body is part of the educational mission of a school. A lawsuit accusing Harvard of discriminating against Asian-American applicants by holding them to a higher standard is awaiting a judge’s ruling. Lawsuits charging unfair admission practices have also been filed against the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and the University of California

The College Board, the New York based nonprofit that oversees the SAT, said it has worried about income inequality influencing test results for years. White students scored an average of 177 points higher than black students and 133 points higher than Hispanic students in 2018 results. Asian students scored 100 points higher than white students. The children of wealthy and college-educated parents outperformed their classmates.

“There are a number of amazing students who may have scored less [on the SAT] but have accomplished more,” said David Coleman, chief executive of the College Board. “We can’t sit on our hands and ignore the disparities of wealth reflected in the SAT.”

The SAT, which includes math and verbal sections and is still taken with No. 2 pencils, is facing challenges. Federal prosecutors revealed this spring that students cheated on both the SAT and ACT for years as part of a far-reaching college admissions cheating scheme. In Asia and the Middle East, both the ACTand SAT exams have experienced security breaches.

Yale University is one of the schools that has tried using applicants’ adversity scores. Yale has pushed to increase socioeconomic diversity and, over several years, has nearly doubled the number of low-income and first-generation-to-attend-college students to about 20% of newly admitted students, said Jeremiah Quinlan, the dean of undergraduate admissions at Yale.

“This [adversity score] is literally affecting every application we look at,” he said. “It has been a part of the success story to help diversify our freshman class"

The SAT is fundamentally a sham. Who cares whatever bs is added. You’re wasting your life defending something broken beyond repair. And for what? Politics?

 

[panamaican]

I can't speak for "every students", but if I saved up my own money to take the test, I'm entitled to know my test scores, and compare it with the kids next door if I want.

You seems to be putting a lot of trust into a fallable system, but I'm a big believer in check & balance. Look on the otherside of the coin: if there's anything wrong with the criterias breakdown or if the model could be improved, how can it be if it's shrowded in secretcy if no one are allowed to point it out?

If those "tons of alleges" reveals even ONE flaw and make the system better, I'm all for it.

There's a difference between trusting a fallible system (and what system isn't?) and understanding that just because someone demands something doesn't mean there's a benefit to giving it to them.

People apply to jobs and never see how the decision was made. The doctor recommends a specific test and never tells a patient the mechanics of the machine. People buy cars and don't need to know how they wired the speakers.

Tons of companies use internal metrics to measure and track client, employee, partner performance and never reveal those metrics to the subject thereof.

There's a cost-benefit analysis that has to take place before private organizations start handing out information. And there's no benefit here. People can demand it all they want but it's mostly so they can complain about not getting into the colleges they want. The College Board doesn't admit people into college so what's the point of soliciting the information from them? And what's the point in their providing it? If a student has an issue with their admissions outcome, solicit the colleges they applied to.

One last point of comparison. People take IQ exams. They rely on the scores they get for all sorts of things. The test preparers do not tell the test takers how the IQ score is actually calculated from the subtest scores. Yet somehow people have survived.

If someone random kid doesn't like the idea of the adversity score they can just take the ACT.

 

[Lead]

I actually thought this was a great idea and addresses what affirmative action essentially should in 2019. Trying to remove the extra variables of a score by establishing baselines like this is good and something that shouldn't be done really with race. If we believe that different races are at a disadvantage at this point based on different indicators growing up rather than just their race itself, you should figure out those indicators and use them instead of the race itself for the assessments.

I'd like to know why those scores are kept secret to the individual but overall, this sounds like a step in the right direction. This tries to open opportunity rather than just forcing quotas on criteria we are supposed to not care about (race).

WSJ has a pretty good article on it but it probably is behind a paywall for most here.

 

[KeepItRealist]

The excuses for poor black standardized test results never end.

In NY the specialized schools it's the same crap. All the kids come from the same areas and attend the same schools and are taught the same curriculum. Yet discrimination and bias in the way they were educated or what they were taught is the issue.

 

[woodguyatl]

Now that colleges are starting to not require SAT’s this seems like a desperate attempt to stay relevant by recycling and idea that they tried can cancelled 20 years against.

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

Meh, schools pretty much already do this. I have a few friends that teach at a technical school and they tell me giving their students failing grades is "strongly discouraged".
There's tons of kids going out into tech fields with participation certificates right now.

And we wonder how Russia and China hack all our shit.