Sanda a better base for mma that muay thai?

[kellier]

I have a black belt in Chinese Boxing from teenage yrs and early 20s and there is no ground game or grappling to speak of.

There are trad MA wrist locks and wrist throws & sweeps. Nothing compared to actual grappling disciplines.

I got mauled when I started BJJ

 

[Bearknuckle]

There are TDs and throws in MT.

Not like sanda though. Sanda has double legs, firemans carries and many more sweeps and variations.

 

[Bearknuckle]

I have a black belt in Chinese Boxing from teenage yrs and early 20s and there is no ground game or grappling to speak of.

There are trad MA wrist locks and wrist throws & sweeps. Nothing compared to actual grappling disciplines.

I got mauled when I started BJJ

Im talking standup base. Everyone is all about muay thai and thats fine, but im just saying sanda technically speaking has all the tools of muay thai but with way more takedowns, throws and sweeps, even the distance and darting in is more like mma-style

 

[NoSmilez]

https://youtube.com/shorts/TRz6CBHhDs0?feature=share
Sanda
Tbh i'm tryna see what is DISTINCTIVELY sanda??
I'm not sure I know. But I think if it's wushu, and people are studying it in shaolin temple, then... it's not a well known art.

Sanda isn't exactly a single martial art. It's like saying studying UFC.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

Theorically yes, but also depends on the fighter. Although Sanda has throws, it has zero ground game after it hits the ground.

isn't that the same as Muay Thai? i'm pretty sure they're allowed to trip and throw in Muay Thai.

 

[Jonesisnatural]

McGregor FAST is better than both

 

[T-dog.1337]

In a way it's kinda like asking
what's harder
Navy Seal training or
15 year of MMA training

It depends on what you're using it for haha

edit: well i went a bit beyond the question but in terms of WUSHU and shaolin arts
not just sanda, but, most ppl in sanda gonna be doing some wushu so yeah woop
wushu and shaolin arts ... they're for soldiers! it teaches you more than hand to hand combat.

 

[Bearknuckle]

Here we go, I was looking for some examples of boxing in china/shaolin and the like, without the use of pads and partners..


I think it would be an interesting debate, which is more effective.
But unfortunately there are tons of videos that seem to disprove the effectiveness of chinese style martial arts against what we call straight up MMA.

I used to argue that it's because in chinese martial arts, you can gouge peoples eyes out, use weapons, throat punches, and so on, but I think it isn't that simple.

Surely there should be some who can effectively use qi gong, tai chi, and more to beat muay thai, boxing, or wrestling, but time and time again we see Tai Chi masters getting destroyed by the mma guys with their animal strength and fierceness.

Then again, we look at sanda, which takes from tai chi and qi gong sometimes, and yeah i think we forget that it stems from the other chinese arts, so we just see it as punching and kicking, but there's more to it, probably the internal side, that we always forget to look at or consider because for us, that's not a focus, it's always technique, which teaches you the internal stuff, just without your knowledge, if you don't really analyze and observe it.

Im confused, ur talking about animal styles? Lol. Im talking sanda kickboxing. Its legit and has some real good fighters, muslim sahlikhov is old but is a savage. Zabit comes from sanda too as does cung le. Those guys can crack, no animal shit lol.

 

[piropiro]

I did Sanda extensively in my youth, was U-18 European champion and competed successfully in China several times.

Sanda IMO is an excellent base for MMA, given the varied striking and wrestling, IF combined with BJJ and perhaps MT for elbows/clinch.

The main issue with Sanda is that it’s an amateur combat sport and niche even in its motherland China; the pro circuits - therefore the money and international opportunities - all focus on the global combat sports (MMA, kickboxing, MT) so most Sanda talents switch.

There used to be reasonably popular Sanda-Pro circuits in China, but they’ve largely been canceled by MMA, so Sanda has zero career value now except as an early amateur base, which proved effective for Weili, Cungle, Zabit, Mulsim and several other UFC stars.

In the Shaolin region there are literally thousands of kids growing up doing Sanda through primary and secondary school; in my opinion it’s one of the largest untapped potential MMA talent pools in the world.

 

[kellier]

Im talking standup base. Everyone is all about muay thai and thats fine, but im just saying sanda technically speaking has all the tools of muay thai but with way more takedowns, throws and sweeps, even the distance and darting in is more like mma-style

Stylistically its a lot different to Muay Thai. Muay thai guys stay in the pocket and use elbows and knees, or plum & maintain high guard.

Sanshou is more about speed and angles. A lot of circling & elusiveness, lower hands (almost like some karate styles) then committing to the combo when you see the opening

 

[kellier]

I did Sanda extensively in my youth, was U-18 European champion and competed successfully in China several times.

Sanda IMO is an excellent base for MMA, given the varied striking and wrestling, IF combined with BJJ and perhaps MT for elbows/clinch.

The main issue with Sanda is that it’s an amateur combat sport and niche even in its motherland China; the pro circuits - therefore the money and international opportunities - all focus on the global combat sports (MMA, kickboxing, MT) so most Sanda talents switch.

There used to be reasonably popular Sanda-Pro circuits in China, but they’ve largely been canceled by MMA, so Sanda has zero career value now except as an early amateur base, which proved effective for Weili, Cungle, Zabit, Mulsim and several other UFC stars.

In the Shaolin region there are literally thousands of kids growing up doing Sanda through primary and secondary school; in my opinion it’s one of the largest untapped potential MMA talent pools in the world.

That's cool you got to compete in China. Do you still train?

 

[T-dog.1337]

Im confused, ur talking about animal styles? Lol. Im talking sanda kickboxing. Its legit and has some real good fighters, muslim sahlikhov is old but is a savage. Zabit comes from sanda too as does cung le. Those guys can crack, no animal shit lol.

Naw i'm just saying how they maul the tai chi guys, like wild animals haha.
But yeah i think when talking about wushu it's easy to get confused like how this thread is kinda going.
because we're talking about techniques that soldiers use
and using it for fighting competitions.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

i still think boxing is better than almost all the other striking sports for MMA. there's pros and cons to using kicks in MMA and it's easy enough to learn to throw a couple of generic kicks into your arsenal. but the things boxing teaches you is incredible. a lot of nuance in boxing will work with proper adjustments in MMA. feinting, distance control, jabbing is so underrated in MMA, angling, defensive slips, etc.,

not sayihng that the other striking sports you can't learn great things either but i think it's just easier to start off boxing because you're only worried about defense and your 2 fists. the other striking sports involve kicking, knees, elbows, throws. you keep it simple it allows for you to master basics that work across all arts while also allowing you to add things from the other arts into your repetoire.

 

[NoSmilez]

isn't that the same as Muay Thai? i'm pretty sure they're allowed to trip and throw in Muay Thai.

You can actively go on a leg in Sanda. You can't do that in MT or try to hip throw. It is small nuances. You can't use your leg to hook while having the body lock. You also technically can't break the lower back but everyone does it.

 

[piropiro]

That's cool you got to compete in China. Do you still train?

Yes, but I’m >50 now so I train for fitness, health and to continue my lifelong way of martial arts; no hard sparring since I turned 40 and the last competition I did was almost 30 years ago…

 

[drbolony]

It's been covered already, but theoretically, yes. That said everything has it's place. At the root of the argument we all agree Muay Thai guys needs to move more and not load up so much. There is actually a style of Muay Thai that prioritizes this, and that is the Muay Femur. Lerdsila and Saenchai are some of the most known/popular practitioners of this style. That said, it's hard to find coaches and it's difficult to master.

Rather than an MMA fighter focusing on mastering one style of striking, they should be adding weapons from any art available to them. The varied attacks of a MT striker, the kick defense, distance and timing of their attacks. The footwork, defensive mindfulness, and combination punching of a boxer, etc. I know a lot less about Sanda and TKD than I do these arts, but I'm sure there are plenty of principles from these arts that can be added to a well founded MMA striker.

As corny/cliche as it is to say nowadays, be water. Flow, do what is successful, what brings the least resistance. Don't live in your ego and try to prove the superiority of one art over the other, the ultimate goal is victory.

 

[KID Yamamoto]

Muay thai is the base for most striking arts baring Karate. Dutch style and Japanese k-1 fighters come from Muay thai backgrounds. Most guys competing at a high level in muay thai/kickboxing literally do not care about MMA. Its like how Boxers don't care.

 

[Kenny Powerth]

Sanda is fun but it is WAY EASIER to find a MT gym or even a true Sanda practitioner to guide you

To answer your question TS, I say MT is better for MMA, overall comparison prob 50/50

 

[kellier]

Yes, but I’m >50 now so I train for fitness, health and to continue my lifelong way of martial arts; no hard sparring since I turned 40 and the last competition I did was almost 30 years ago…

I haven't trained Sanshou since around 2008/09. BJJ is easier on the body ( I'm touching 40)

 

[Bearknuckle]

I did Sanda extensively in my youth, was U-18 European champion and competed successfully in China several times.

Sanda IMO is an excellent base for MMA, given the varied striking and wrestling, IF combined with BJJ and perhaps MT for elbows/clinch.

The main issue with Sanda is that it’s an amateur combat sport and niche even in its motherland China; the pro circuits - therefore the money and international opportunities - all focus on the global combat sports (MMA, kickboxing, MT) so most Sanda talents switch.

There used to be reasonably popular Sanda-Pro circuits in China, but they’ve largely been canceled by MMA, so Sanda has zero career value now except as an early amateur base, which proved effective for Weili, Cungle, Zabit, Mulsim and several other UFC stars.

In the Shaolin region there are literally thousands of kids growing up doing Sanda through primary and secondary school; in my opinion it’s one of the largest untapped potential MMA talent pools in the world.

Thats what i mean, its a great base, arguably better base than muay thai as it doesnt have the bad tendencies of muay thai for mma.