Sanda a better base for mma that muay thai?

[NoSmilez]

Oh yea I also looked through the list. I was under the impression Cung Le was a TKD/wrestling guy. His first instructor was a TKD guy with some kind of "Vietnamese" Kung Fu background. It is more or less TKD. He trained in BJJ before he even started to compete in Sanshou without training in it. I don't think he trained with any Chinese TMA person until he was in his mid 20s.

 

[Bearknuckle]

i still think boxing is better than almost all the other striking sports for MMA. there's pros and cons to using kicks in MMA and it's easy enough to learn to throw a couple of generic kicks into your arsenal. but the things boxing teaches you is incredible. a lot of nuance in boxing will work with proper adjustments in MMA. feinting, distance control, jabbing is so underrated in MMA, angling, defensive slips, etc.,

not sayihng that the other striking sports you can't learn great things either but i think it's just easier to start off boxing because you're only worried about defense and your 2 fists. the other striking sports involve kicking, knees, elbows, throws. you keep it simple it allows for you to master basics that work across all arts while also allowing you to add things from the other arts into your repetoire.

I will say boxing is easier to learn as far as using it proficiently because its very specialized. but sanda would be better as the distance is more suited for mma. Also being able to see when guys are shooting in isnt taught in boxing. As well as defending kicks. Its obvious having good boxing is very important, but theres also many weaknesses as with any striking style.

 

[Bearknuckle]

Oh yea I also looked through the list. I was under the impression Cung Le was a TKD/wrestling guy. His first instructor was a TKD guy with some kind of "Vietnamese" Kung Fu background. It is more or less TKD. He trained in BJJ before he even started to compete in Sanshou without training in it. I don't think he trained with any Chinese TMA person until he was in his mid 20s.

I use to watch cung le do san shou in the 90s, so he was a striker kickboxer long before he did bjj.

muslim and zabit are more pure sanda i think. Unfortunately, zabit went 6-0 in the ufc but retired to be a doctor, weird.

Muslim salikhov is known as the king of kung fu and he’s a savage in the standup.

 

[Edward Henry Greb]

Many chinese fighters with Sanda background have fought on ONE. In MMA, Muay Thai and Kickboxing rules. They seem to not do as good as Thai and Dutch fighters. I don't think is that effective.

All the fighters you mentioned don't seem to have a different style than most MMA fighters, I guess they may have started as "sanda" but they transitioned to the Muay Thai based striking style that MMA has.

It's been 30 years, you are not going to reinvent the wheel. All the different styles of martial arts have been tested in MMA by most gyms. The most efficient styles are the ones that remain, the ones we are seeing now. Sanda is simply another variation of kickboxing, but there is no proof after 30 years that is a more efficient one. Good fighters may come from it just like they may come from Karate, but is not the martial art but the talent of the fighter that makes them succeed in MMA after they adjust to it.

Muay Thai is more popular over all, with many more participants than Sanda, so the pool of talent is much greater in Muay Thai than in Sanda.

Doesn't mean Sanda isn't as effective; it means there are less participants.

I mean look at boxing. The amount of professional boxers in the world dwarfs every other professional combat sport, and by a country mile, and yet there is no prime/elite representative in MMA.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

I will say boxing is easier to learn as far as using it proficiently because its very specialized. but sanda would be better as the distance is more suited for mma. Also being able to see when guys are shooting in isnt taught in boxing. As well as defending kicks. Its obvious having good boxing is very important, but theres also many weaknesses as with any striking style.

i don't mean i think it's the best striking alone, but to start off as a boxer i think is better for the majority of athletes. you can learn to defend kicks, especially vs the vast majority of MMA kickers because there isn't that many good kickers in MMA to begin with. in MMA you're going to be using your hands a lot more than you will be using kicks even if you're a proficient kicker. even just the takedown threat will limit many kickers kick attacks.

the weaknesses in boxing aren't as bad as the weaknesses in kicking combat arts in my opinion simply because boxers only attack with their fists and the margin for error is much smaller. you miss a flying knee, a high kick, get a body kick caught, a low kick countered by a punch etc., those are the beginning of fight ending sequences many times.

for boxers you have to adjust less. the stance will change, remember to don't duck too much, learn kick defense distance and you're good to go.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

Muay Thai is more popular over all, with many more participants than Sanda, so the pool of talent is much greater in Muay Thai than in Sanda.

Doesn't mean Sanda isn't as effective; it means there are less participants.

I mean look at boxing. The amount of professional boxers in the world dwarfs every other professional combat sport, and by a country mile, and yet there is no prime/elite representative in MMA.

for boxing there's definitely guys who have boxing heavy games that are elite fighters. Max Holloway, Ngannou, Kelvin Gasteleum, Stipe Miocic, etc.,

 

[NoSmilez]

I use to watch cung le do san shou in the 90s, so he was a striker kickboxer long before he did bjj.

muslim and zabit are more pure sanda i think. Unfortunately, zabit went 6-0 in the ufc but retired to be a doctor, weird.

Muslim salikhov is known as the king of kung fu and he’s a savage in the standup.

Yea he was a TKD guy. He only started competing in Sanshou in his 20s. The story with him sorta changes as time goes on. He wasn't really considered TMA or whatever early on.

Muslim and Zabit have a weird lineage. They came up from a Wushu school. The school is not really CMA either. The founder is a karate guy who really liked Kung Fu or something. He learned it from books. It was kind of like the early Chutebox guys learning Muay Thai without really having any instruction outside of a TKD guy who picked up MT during a vacation. That story might be even made up though. Thailand in the 70s isn't like Thailand today. I think the story with Zabit's school was that a visiting Chinese government official was impressed and invited the instructor to China to learn more.

 

[Edward Henry Greb]

for boxing there's definitely guys who have boxing heavy games that are elite fighters. Max Holloway, Ngannou, Kelvin Gasteleum, Stipe Miocic, etc.,

Sure, boxing figures heavily in MMA.

But none of those you mentioned is an elite boxer; they would be scrubs in boxing.

Holloway, Gastelum, and even Miocic might be contenders — but they're nowhere near Elites in boxing.

 

[DkMacaw]

Everybody talks about MT in MMA but i have never really watched a fighter using true MT stance, pace and took the amount of damages the MT dudes take during their fights.
Its not because you throw a kick that it should be called MT.

Rafael Fiziev is the closest I've seen to pure Muay Thai, but against Gaethje it didn't seem too effective when he just spammed knees to the body and he also gassed badly.

 

[RemyR]

Sanda is a joke

 

[Bearknuckle]

Sanda is a joke

Please elaborate.

 

[RemyR]

Please elaborate.

Well I shouldn't be so harsh so let me rephrase it. 90% of Sanda is a joke. Sanda is essentially the Chinese version of Karate. And like karate there's some legit things you can get out of it but 90% of it is watered down garbage. Sport Sanda is legit in the same sense that full contact karate can be legit.

 

[Bearknuckle]

Well I shouldn't be so harsh so let me rephrase it. 90% of Sanda is a joke. Sanda is essentially the Chinese version of Karate. And like karate there's some legit things you can get out of it but 90% of it is watered down garbage. Sport Sanda is legit in the same sense that full contact karate can be legit.

You’ve obviously never watch sanda kickboxing. Its not the chinese version of karate. Its a better striking style than muay thai for mma. Have u ever trained? You think just because its chinese martial arts its like praying mantis or qigong shit lol.

 

[RemyR]

You’ve obviously never watch sanda kickboxing. Its not the chinese version of karate. Its a better striking style than muay thai for mma. Have u ever trained? You think just because its chinese martial arts its like praying mantis or qigong shit lol.

I can't tell if you're trolling or not. Kudos.

 

[Bearknuckle]

I can't tell if you're trolling or not. Kudos.

Trolling? I just showed u videos of full contact sanda matches with KOs and takedowns. Sorry if sanda makes u uncomfortable because its not the typical boxing/muaythai/kickboxing striking.





you said 90% of it doesnt work. These vids show 90% of these same moves done in mma.

 

[wildchild88]

Because Muay Thai is really popular, it's gathering a lot of jealousy / detractors..

It's the premier striking art, with the best use of kicks, knees, elbows and non-boxing in fighting.

Sanda is great, but this isn't even a discussion in my opinion.

 

[Big Tuppy Hole]

During a recent conversation with a friend, we debated which martial arts provide the best base for MMA. I argued that the level and volume of talent and competition in a given discipline is often overlooked.

For example, if we compared Fighter A, an Olympic-level Taekwondo black belt from South Korea, with Fighter B, a regional Greco-Roman champion from India, I believe Fighter A has the "better" base for MMA. This is because he likely grew up in a more competitive and elitist environment, and is likely more talented and genetically gifted, as his odds of success were lower than Fighter B's.

The popularity of a sport plays a significant factor. Muay Thai, for instance, is more widely practiced and has more gyms, competitors, and events. While Sanda is also a great martial art, it may be more challenging to find a gym in your area, and even if you do, it may not be as well-equipped as a Muay Thai gym.

There's some trueths to this, also the more people participating in a sports means the sport gets more refined quicker as there's a large body of people to go through the process of elimination of techniques that aren't affective.

 

[MrFreeze]

Sanda is an awesome base for MMA, but comparing it with backgrounds is a boring exercise. It's produced some great fighters, Zabit cannot be forgotten as a great Sanda fighter.

 

[aerius]

During a recent conversation with a friend, we debated which martial arts provide the best base for MMA. I argued that the level and volume of talent and competition in a given discipline is often overlooked.

For example, if we compared Fighter A, an Olympic-level Taekwondo black belt from South Korea, with Fighter B, a regional Greco-Roman champion from India, I believe Fighter A has the "better" base for MMA. This is because he likely grew up in a more competitive and elitist environment, and is likely more talented and genetically gifted, as his odds of success were lower than Fighter B's.

The popularity of a sport plays a significant factor. Muay Thai, for instance, is more widely practiced and has more gyms, competitors, and events. While Sanda is also a great martial art, it may be more challenging to find a gym in your area, and even if you do, it may not be as well-equipped as a Muay Thai gym.

I generally agree with this. When we look at the good fighters from each region they tend to fit this pattern; the US has an extensive wrestling & boxing scene and almost all their top MMA fighters are wrestle-boxers of some sort, UK has boxing, kickboxing, and Muay Thai so their MMA fighters are mostly strikers, Brazil is more kickboxing & BJJ so their top fighters are a mix of kickboxers & BJJ artists, and in the former Soviet nations it's gonna be Sambo fighters, wrestle-boxers, or wrestle-kickboxers depending on the region.

An organized system for martial arts & combat sports means you can get everyone learning & competing from a younger age, and it also provides a lot more opportunities for training, competing, and getting good. If I wanted to start training for MMA here in Canada, I'm pretty much shit outta luck if I need to train wrestling, I can get some decent BJJ and boxing/kickboxing but finding a good wrestling or Muay Thai gym is really freakin' hard.

 

[Human Bass]

isn't that the same as Muay Thai? i'm pretty sure they're allowed to trip and throw in Muay Thai.

No. Sanda allows double and single leg, hip thows and such. Muay Thai only allows trips.