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ryan won bronze at ADCC. as a brown belt
Ryan Hall v. Gray Maynard
- Thread starter DrJitsu
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Now when you say that you picture him running through the toughest grapplers in the world and got 3rd right? No that isn't what happened. In a Bracket that had Cobrinha,Rani Yahya, Leo Viera,Rafa,Justin Rader, and Barret Yoshida....Ryan Hall lost his 2nd match, then due to multiple injuries, went straight to a medal match against Jeff Glover. He didn't beat any of those guys above that were in his bracket. After that BS he never competed in ADCC or a competitive Qualifier again for various reasons.
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That's orthogonal to my point. Nate to my knowledge only has two names on his grappling resume that stand out, and those are Ryan and Queixinho, the latter of whom submitted him in under a minute. Normally the way you determine the relative competitive level of an athlete in an individual sport is the relative strength of whom they competed against. There is no sane or rational way of arguing that Nate has a greater strength of schedule than Ryan in competitive grappling, just like there's no sane or rational way of claiming Ryan has a greater strength of schedule in MMA. If you honestly believe Nate has the more successful sub grappling career, you're delusional, full stop.
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Nate stopped competing in Grappling to fight MMA long ago. He has been in the UFC since 2007 and has multiple submissions(Gomi and Pelligrino are the biggest names when it comes to Grappling). Name some people Ryan Hall has submitted.
Off the top of my head, Diego Sanchez, Wilson Reid, Joel tudor, Jeff glover( beat him on points) Hermes franca. Probably more that I can't recall. o
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It was a rolling back take not a berimbolo. He didn't have a dlr hook.
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Ryan Halls only chance is to out drill the other guys.
He will be overpowered unless he has a significant technical superiority in everything.
This is the deal when it comes to Ryan's grappling career. And I know your style and you will throw some shade on it but I also do respect that you always stick to yur guns. So I'm not trying to preach or anything like that. Ryan Hall's grappling accomplishments are not nearly as good as his skill level. And I don't know why. Maybe he never had the best strategy. Maybe he got some bad calls. Maybe he zigged when he should have zagged. Maybe it was mental. I'm not sure. But I have trained with plenty of high level people and Ryan is as good as any of them. And to not just rely on my own opinion which could be biased and wrong. I have heard several of your favorite competitors say that Ryan is on par with many adcc and mundials champions. And I'm not naming names so you can think it's horseshit. And even if I did name names you would probably still say that doesn't matter, and that what he actually accomplished is all that matters. And you might be right.
I just don't understand how it's 2017 basically and people are debating his grappling career. Everyone knows he got the bronze by unique circumstances at adcc. Everyone knows he didn't win the mundials or the pans at black belt or adcc. My argument is that it doesn't really matter. He's contributed a ton to the jiu jitsu community in several ways. And he's representing well for the sport in the world's top mixed martial arts league. That's good enough for me. His instructionals have helped my game a ton and I probably would have quit jiu jitsu in frustration by now if I never had them. Ryan's good in my book.
Ryan Hall interview on the MMA Hour. if it doesn't start on time for you then skip to 2:13:30
Also Ryan is exactly right when he says he's much better on top but people just haven't seen it yet. If you've rolled with him you know. His inversions and leg locks are nothing compared to his passing and his mount. I don't know how long he will fight in the ufc but I hope he gets to show off the best parts of his game which is a lot more like Demian Maia or BJ Penn. This match from 2014 is the best example I could find.
Also Ryan is exactly right when he says he's much better on top but people just haven't seen it yet. If you've rolled with him you know. His inversions and leg locks are nothing compared to his passing and his mount. I don't know how long he will fight in the ufc but I hope he gets to show off the best parts of his game which is a lot more like Demian Maia or BJ Penn. This match from 2014 is the best example I could find.
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He tapped Jeff Glover, Wilson Reis, Gordinho, Jorge Britto and has several other good wins on points just off the top of my head. The vast majority of his losses at top level have been to world beaters.
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Also, the evidence that Ryan is hopelessly unathletic includes:
His shots and strikes aren't particularly fast compared to good strikers/wrestlers
He's white and not jacked/tan.
Cut it out with the broscience guys.
His shots and strikes aren't particularly fast compared to good strikers/wrestlers
He's white and not jacked/tan.
Cut it out with the broscience guys.
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Things like that almost always come down to doing movements you're not as used too, so the engrams are not as sophisticated. The brain is a huge miser and will always skimp on devoting its resources to anything if it can get away with (and sometimes even when it can't). In order to really get an intuitive feel for a certain class of techniques there's no getting around simply drilling it and drilling it some more in order to signal the brain 'this is important' and build up those engrams.
And besides, however it may have seemed awkward now, his striking has shown dramatic improvements when you compare it to his previous outings; that time with the Thompson's has clearly been paying off.
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That's basically it.
For such a "hopelessly unathletic" guy, he's made it to the top level of two different sports in the last decade. He was competitive enough in sport grappling to win a bronze at ADCC. He is competitive enough in MMA to have a winning record in the UFC.
Maybe, just maybe, the guy is actually good at some sports. And that's pretty much the definition of athletic.
Also for how slow, weak, and awkward he supposedly is, no one who actually rolls with him ever describes him that way. They always say the opposite. Weird!
Spot on. At his academy he focuses a lot on wrestling and judo and recently is bringing in people to do judo and wrestling seminars. he changed the name of his academy from fifty50 bjj to fifty50 martial arts. His last few gi matches (as far back as few years ago) all had harai goshi or osoto gari throws in them. I would guess we will see his wrestling when he feels confident enough between his skills and his opponent for him to implement it. If you go train with him he is planting you on your ass and smash passing you before tapping you.
This quote of yours was in reply to someone saying Nate Diaz tapping Ryan hall at purple belt doesn't mean that Nate Diaz is a better grappler than Ryan Hall.
I'm not sure how this post of yours proves your point. Who are Nate Diaz's top 5 submission wins in grappling? Ryan Hall is the #1 I would think. And of course Nate Diaz is an excellent grappler. But better grapplers do lose to worse grapplers. Especially without the gi. Claudio Calasans (adcc champion and mundials champion) got choked out by a Polish MMA fighter named Piechota at adcc a few years ago. Is Piechota a better grappler than Claudio Calasans? No, but styles make match ups and one mistake can cost you everything.
Right? I think it's because has a super lanky build without being shredded. He has an awkward hunched over posture. He's super white and hairy. He just doesn't look like what our culture considers athletes. I'm not saying he's athletic like Conor McGregor is athletic but id dictionary.com defines athleticism as "of or relating to athletes; involving the use of physical skills or capabilities, as strength, agility, or stamina" then Ryan Hall does fit the bill. Like you said people that roll with him don't describe him as being nonathletic at all. There are people with nonathletic games and his is not that.
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Hall is smart, has a great attitude, and an excellent approach to BJJ/MMA. Solid dude in every aspect in my book.
As for him not being athletic, people literally just say that because he looks and carries himself like a nerd and speaks softly. If you only look at what he actually does, you can't deny that he's at least reasonably athletic.
As for him not being athletic, people literally just say that because he looks and carries himself like a nerd and speaks softly. If you only look at what he actually does, you can't deny that he's at least reasonably athletic.
BJJ in MMA isn't like top trumps, you're ADCC record doesn't mean shit if your style and knowledge of the game isn't suitable for MMA. The thing about Hall is that he is unique in the BJJ skills he brings. He happens to be a leg lock/50-50 specialist which alone could be enough to do some damage in MMA, but he's also crazy good at taking the back, setting up D'arce chokes/arm triangles, passing guard and of course, the triangle. That's a very wide and creative BJJ arsenal. Augusto Mendes is a better grappler than Hall, but he is nowhere near as dangerous in the cage, despite having the better ADCC record.
No matter what position Hall gets put in on the ground, he is going to be among the very best in the UFC at that position. Who has a bette triangle, D'arce, leg entaglement or back take than Ryan? The list isn't that big. His BJJ is unique, which allows him to use in unique ways. His knolwedge of the sport has always been greater than his accomplishments, which is how he was able to be such a great innovator and teacher, without necessarily being one of the very best in the world.
His MMA style at the moment is genius. 6 rounds against two big punchers and he's shipped less than 5 clean shots. When he actually fights someone who can engage him a ground battle, we are going to see some great MMA BJJ.
Imagine Hall v Marcin Held or Triangle City? Hall v Oliveria sounds even better.
No matter what position Hall gets put in on the ground, he is going to be among the very best in the UFC at that position. Who has a bette triangle, D'arce, leg entaglement or back take than Ryan? The list isn't that big. His BJJ is unique, which allows him to use in unique ways. His knolwedge of the sport has always been greater than his accomplishments, which is how he was able to be such a great innovator and teacher, without necessarily being one of the very best in the world.
His MMA style at the moment is genius. 6 rounds against two big punchers and he's shipped less than 5 clean shots. When he actually fights someone who can engage him a ground battle, we are going to see some great MMA BJJ.
Imagine Hall v Marcin Held or Triangle City? Hall v Oliveria sounds even better.
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Honestly, I don't think most people know that.Many people talking about Ryan Hall's Gold really think he got it by competing against the best and finally losing in the medal round to get Bronze. Just like most people don't know that many of these 10thP guys claiming to be "World Champions" are talking about at lower belt or Gracie Worlds and not IBJJF. I really like Ryan Hall's instructionals and have like 6 of them. I think he does a tremendous job explaining things in ways so they make sense and memorable.That said, one of my main pet peeves are when Grapplers get overrated over Grapplers that have the real accomplishments. As a frequent competitor(lower belt) and Grappling fan I see the hard work the top Grapplers have put in and what it takes to win in IBJJF. Even at Blue Belt, a guy can't win IBJJF Worlds without training full time or having extensive Wrestling/Judo experience. I've seen Purplebelts that regularly tapped hobbyist BBs lose in the 1st and 2nd rounds at Worlds. That is the circuit that has the best Grapplers proving themselves over and over again against the best competition. It grinds my gears that some of these guys shun IBJJF for these competitions with subpar talent and ability and people claiming THEY are on the level of the guys winning against the best. Its like we have the NBA and some guys that are killing it in the Greek basketball league claiming they are on the level of Lebron James.
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Ryan barely lost to Rafa on points in the World's.
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