Ryan Hall doesn't believe in guard or shrimping...

I think that article was written to be a bit shocking and dramatic to get people to read it. However, when you really take your time to read it, you see that it's not really that out there or anything.

Ryan never says that shrimping is flat out wrong. If anything, he says that he has a new version of the shrimp that he has been working on that he feels is superior to the classical version.

His views on top position versus bottom position have been around for a while too. I do generally agree with him that top position is superior.
 
Frodo said:
I think the interviewer misunderstood. Hall said that the movement is not taught correctly, and the correct move is kind of like a "trade secret" among the elite. He believes those like Roger Gracie do something different in their basics techniques that the mainstream don't teach. He is trying to figure it out slowly. However, explaining the shrimp would probably take too much time for their interview. Here's what was actually said:



and



and



The entire interview was probably mind-blowing for the interviewer since he is just a newish blue belt with limited experience. So he misinterpreted Hall's remarks.

P.S. Most BJJ clubs are recreational clubs, and the players there are not trying for world titles. You would have a different story among the more elite clubs, knopix. They don't train takedowns for the same reason judoka or wrestlers train them, so they might not care about takedowns in a match or do them as much. But they are still practiced a lot. Would you expect a freestyle wrestler to be as good as a greco guy at upperbody throws? But wouldn't you expect him to at least be competent at them?
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where'd you get that??? link?

that makes way more sense, thanks for posting.
 
Awesome interview. Not only does he break his jiu jitsu down, he also explains what he's talking about into a really simple, see through way. And that's not easy to do. Kudos to him.
 
Frodo said:
I think the interviewer misunderstood. Hall said that the movement is not taught correctly, and the correct move is kind of like a "trade secret" among the elite. He believes those like Roger Gracie do something different in their basics techniques that the mainstream don't teach. He is trying to figure it out slowly. However, explaining the shrimp would probably take too much time for their interview. Here's what was actually said:



and



and



The entire interview was probably mind-blowing for the interviewer since he is just a newish blue belt with limited experience. So he misinterpreted Hall's remarks.

P.S. Most BJJ clubs are recreational clubs, and the players there are not trying for world titles. You would have a different story among the more elite clubs, knopix. They don't train takedowns for the same reason judoka or wrestlers train them, so they might not care about takedowns in a match or do them as much. But they are still practiced a lot. Would you expect a freestyle wrestler to be as good as a greco guy at upperbody throws? But wouldn't you expect him to at least be competent at them?
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I can agree with that. I have to assume that guys at the world title level would absolutely take the time to aggressively work on the takedown.

In fact I have seen several matches online that displayed a great variety and skill in the takedown game.
I suppose my comment would have been more general and aimed towards the masses.
Obviously the champs think it is important but the overall traiing I think is geared towards the ground for guys like me.

Anyway, this is a pretty interested read, my 2 cents aside.

I have always been an advocate for having a great ground game to go along with a great standing game and even if Halls comments were out of context it really generated some interesting replies.
 
Very interesting article, I think I’m going to have to stop by for a class or maybe take a private with him. I’m curious to see how his basic techniques are so different than what everyone else is teaching.
 
The full transcript is a fantastic read, great interview.

I need to get over to 50/fifty and check that place out some day, it's so damn close to me too, like 3 metro stops or a 30 minute drive... argh!
 
Ah, reading it now makes sense. Enough of the snippets and BS haha.

So....what the real problem is here, is that the interviewer didn't bust out with a video camera to record said uber-shrimp.

Anyone live near Hall's academy? :P

edit: answered above. Get on it, and bring a camera ;\
 
It's an interesting article. I generally agree with it ... my game is primarily wrestling-style butterfly guard these days. Getting top position is key. All I do is sweep to mount for a cross choke/armbar, or hit a triangle.

That said, I think his speech is a bit excessively against the guard, which may be necessary for his own development, but not necessarily for everyone. Braulio Estima just decimated ADCC with traditional submission attacks from the guard. Roger Gracie is an absolute killer with submissions from the guard. It's not true that guard attacks don't work at the highest levels. It's true that ideally you want the top position, but you have to be able to kill from the guard to consistently get there every time.
 
this article made me feel better about having okay wrestling and being a top player - it's funny because since i got decent at BJJ I've viewed the guard as a sweeping tool and not some place to submit someone, also having short non-flexible legs helped me make this decision - it's funny how certain people don't use the mount as much maybe i have to start using it more - gotta say Ryan is a great teacher and I'd be interested to train with him or a do a private
 
Zankou said:
It's an interesting article. I generally agree with it ... my game is primarily wrestling-style butterfly guard these days. Getting top position is key. All I do is sweep to mount for a cross choke/armbar, or hit a triangle.

That said, I think his speech is a bit excessively against the guard, which may be necessary for his own development, but not necessarily for everyone. Braulio Estima just decimated ADCC with traditional submission attacks from the guard. Roger Gracie is an absolute killer with submissions from the guard. It's not true that guard attacks don't work at the highest levels. It's true that ideally you want the top position, but you have to be able to kill from the guard to consistently get there every time.
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Also if guys start neglecting the guard then we are back to the days where guys are getting caught with the simplest triangle and armbars and then not knowing what the hell happened.

There has to be a balance. Obviously I push and advocate a top down approach but you dont neglect the down just because you are working on the top.
 
knoxpk said:
Also if guys start neglecting the guard then we are back to the days where guys are getting caught with the simplest triangle and armbars and then not knowing what the hell happened.

There has to be a balance. Obviously I push and advocate a top down approach but you dont neglect the down just because you are working on the top.
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Great point.
 
I am really curious how far he's willing to take this new-found ideology. I'd have to question the intelligence of ryan throwing away his bread and butter of the guard. Don't forget that you got to ADCC using your crazy-wacky-not-so-good-anymore triangles and sweeps from bottom. He'd be very smart to up his top game and reinforce the fundamentals and body mechanics, but he'd be very dumb to entirely abandon the strategy that has brought him so close to the top of the mountain.
 
Count said:
I am really curious how far he's willing to take this new-found ideology. I'd have to question the intelligence of ryan throwing away his bread and butter of the guard. Don't forget that you got to ADCC using your crazy-wacky-not-so-good-anymore triangles and sweeps from bottom. He'd be very smart to up his top game and reinforce the fundamentals and body mechanics, but he'd be very dumb to entirely abandon the strategy that has brought him so close to the top of the mountain.
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He got to ADCC using his new strategy. It isn't like he came up with this new thing in the last month. It isn't like he forgot everything. I can't speak for Ryan, but he probably still keeps the old strategy for the appropriate time. Remember: to get ready for the ADCC he was training with a lot of people of that caliber. I would be surprised if his game did not evolve. And it worked: He got 3rd.
 
Count said:
Don't forget that you got to ADCC using your crazy-wacky-not-so-good-anymore triangles and sweeps from bottom. He'd be very smart to up his top game and reinforce the fundamentals and body mechanics, but he'd be very dumb to entirely abandon the strategy that has brought him so close to the top of the mountain.
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Ryan Hall said:
Basically, I’ll pull guard because I want to win. I’m not good enough to do the ideal thing in every single situation, and if I match up against someone else’s weaknesses, someone who is not particularly sharp from on top, I’ll be like, yeah, I’ll pull guard so I can get the advantage at this time. I know it is not the proper strategy, but life isn’t a physics problem, so I’m forced to reap what I’ve sown in terms of having spent years doing things that were not what I now feel I should have been doing
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Ryan won the ADCC trials with various 50/50 setups. His 3rd place match against Jeff Glover was pretty much all guard passing and rear mount. The fact that he could shut down Glover's half guard, which is one of the most dangerous in all of BJJ, says something about his improving skills.
 
Count said:
I am really curious how far he's willing to take this new-found ideology. I'd have to question the intelligence of ryan throwing away his bread and butter of the guard. Don't forget that you got to ADCC using your crazy-wacky-not-so-good-anymore triangles and sweeps from bottom. He'd be very smart to up his top game and reinforce the fundamentals and body mechanics, but he'd be very dumb to entirely abandon the strategy that has brought him so close to the top of the mountain.
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I don't think you really understand what's being said here. Ryan is simply stating the fact that with all things equal the top player has massive advantages due to gravity and basic body mechanics. Obviously Ryan is extremely comfortable in his guard, but he REALIZES that this is putting him at a disadvantage against TOP LEVEL competiton, and he's absolutely right. Look at Pablo Popovich and Daniel Moraes: both have a win over Marcelo Garcia simply because they played a tight top game and had superior wrestling skills. There's many other examples of this, but when you watch guys like Pablo, Daniel, Barnett, Monson, and other elite top players roll you see just how much easier it is for the top player to win every time. This is reasonably a common observation; why do you think the top players are always heavily favored over the guard players in big matches?
 
Mikey Triangles said:
Look at Pablo Popovich and Daniel Moraes: both have a win over the more technically gifted Marcelo Garcia simply because they played a tight top game.
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To be fair to Marcelo... Popovich was ALL over his shorts. But yeah, I definitely agree with what you view that Ryan was saying, it's definitely about top being better when all else is equal.
 
Guys, I feel I can offer some clarification. When Ryan says he doesnt believe in "shrimping", he isnt saying that he doesnt believe in the hip escape, he's saying that he doesnt believe in the way its taught. Ever since Rickson taught how to properly hip escape at the Nashville seminar, everyone (or at least the attendee's for that matter) are doing it the way Rickson taught.

Rickson showed the way everyone does it, and said that it was wrong, and possibly lands you in worse position than where you started. The reason Ryan didnt want to go into detail about it is because he was right, the way he's doing it now (the Rickson way), does require alot of explanation, but it isnt like the hip escape we do in teh beginning of class for warm ups.
 
DarceBrabo said:
Guys, I feel I can offer some clarification. When Ryan says he doesnt believe in "shrimping", he isnt saying that he doesnt believe in the hip escape, he's saying that he doesnt believe in the way its taught. Ever since Rickson taught how to properly hip escape at the Nashville seminar, everyone (or at least the attendee's for that matter) are doing it the way Rickson taught.

Rickson showed the way everyone does it, and said that it was wrong, and possibly lands you in worse position than where you started. The reason Ryan didnt want to go into detail about it is because he was right, the way he's doing it now (the Rickson way), does require alot of explanation, but it isnt like the hip escape we do in teh beginning of class for warm ups.
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I demand explanation and possibly video. Politely... with sugar on top, also whip cream and possibly cherries if the video quality is good.

Pretty please?
 
TastyLumpia said:
Ryan won the ADCC trials with various 50/50 setups. His 3rd place match against Jeff Glover was pretty much all guard passing and rear mount. The fact that he could shut down Glover's half guard, which is one of the most dangerous in all of BJJ, says something about his improving skills.
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Yes, it was both impressive and exciting... though I did hear that Glover pulled a "Dean Lister" the night before. I would REALLY like to see a rematch regardless. that was my second favorite match of the event; first was Cobrinha X Mendes
 
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