Ryan Hall an underdog against Topuria?

[fortheo]

Topuria is really good

Also a pretty bad stylistic matchup for Hall

How? He's a shorter boxer/ wrestler with good jitz. Hall is longer, karate style striker who absolutely doesn't exchange in boxing range, and has better jitz.

 

[Ace70 V2]

He should be the underdog. Topuria is gonna go up the ladder. Fuck that other guy

 

[bigbosssnake]

How? He's a shorter boxer/ wrestler with good jitz. Hall is longer, karate style striker ho absolutely doesn't exchange in boxing range, and has better jitz.

watch Topuria v Jackson and u will know why!!

Body tear will be there for Topuria all day

 

[fortheo]

Bad stylistic match-up for Hall, I understand why the odds are where they are. Topuria is younger, more explosive, and has a competitive Greco-Roman wrestling base from growing up in Georgia and Spain. He has recently shown himself to have some serious hands on him after beating Zalal and Jackson in largely standup fights. Not only does he have plenty of power in his fists, but is able to uncork loads of accurate, high-variance head & body combinations and has pretty crazy hand speed to boot.

And finally -- on top of all of this -- he actually began his career as a high-level submission specialist and is a legit BJJ Black Belt. His first seven pro wins were all submission finishes via a myriad of different techniques: triangle choke, RNC, guillotine (both mounted and conventional), anaconda choke, and a triangle straight armbar. Now a couple of those opponents had 0-0 or negative records, but some of them were pretty legit guys on the regional scene with more experience than him when Topuria finished them (6-1, 7-1, 8-1, etc.). This isn't to say that Topuria is going to be able to go to the mat and play the ADCC game with Ryan -- I absolutely don't think he can -- but only to say that between his obvious knowledge of the BJJ meta as it applies to MMA and his scrambling ability from his wrestling base, he shouldn't be a total fish out of water should the fight briefly go to the ground or should The Wizard get a hold of him. Other fighters have shut Ryan's attack down before with solid game-planning.

That said, Ryan is always a live dog. It legitimately only takes one mistake in a grappling exchange with him and you're tapping. Even if Ilia stays safe from that, I can see Ryan's unorthodox, long-range kicks from the outside frustrating his pressure-heavy, boxing-oriented game. He might not be able to get in on Hall and get picked apart, especially since he doesn't throw all that many kicks of his own. I wouldn't bet on it, but it's a viable outcome I could see happening.

Fun fight. I like both guys so it sucks from that angle, but I'll enjoy it as a fight fan from a stylistic perspective seeing these two clash.

I think Topuria is the better boxer, but hall doesn't fuck around in that range. Hall is taller and uses his range well with a vast array of karate kicks and evasive footwork. If Topuria tries to get into boxing range, he'll likely either eat kicks to the face, or have hall rolling on his leg, either way it's unlikely that Topuria will have meaningful, prolonged success with his boxing in this fight, simply because hall never messes around in that range-- he simply pulls guard or rolls for a leg any time he can't avoid boxing range with his footwork.

If Topuria can't have his success at boxing range, then where would he have success? Because I don't see him winning at kickboxing range with Hall. The real interesting part of this fight for me is the grappling. If Topuria is good enough to control Hall from top position, then that will be the fight in the bag. Any time Hall rolls for a leg lock, Topuria could potentially get a free takedown and ride out a round.

Tough fight for both guys in my opinion

 

[fortheo]

watch Topuria v Jackson and u will know why!!

Body tear will be there for Topuria all day

Yes, but Hall rolls for a leg or pulls guard any time people get into boxing range, even at risk of people calling him boring. Boxing is almost never a factor in hall fights-- he simply doesn't engage there. Hall engages at kicking range, and grappling. That's about it.

Tough fight for both guys.

 

[Arrrrgh]

I hate hall and hope he gets viciously KO'd but I'd bet on him to sub most prelim fighters

You hate hall?
Lol he's such a nice dude. I don't get it.

Do you mean you just hate his fighting style?

 

[Safton]

I think Topuria is the better boxer, but hall doesn't fuck around in that range. Hall is taller and uses his range well with a vast array of karate kicks and evasive footwork. If Topuria tries to get into boxing range, he'll likely either eat kicks to the face, or have hall rolling on his leg, either way it's unlikely that Topuria will have meaningful, prolonged success with his boxing in this fight, simply because hall never messes around in that range-- he simply pulls guard or rolls for a leg any time he can't avoid boxing range with his footwork.

If Topuria can't have his success at boxing range, then where would he have success? Because I don't see him winning at kickboxing range with Hall. The real interesting part of this fight for me is the grappling. If Topuria is good enough to control Hall from top position, then that will be the fight in the bag. Any time Hall rolls for a leg lock, Topuria could potentially get a free takedown and ride out a round.

Tough fight for both guys in my opinion

I know. This video details his fight style perfectly:


It's entirely possible that the fight will play out as you say: with Ilia unable to close the distance and implement his boxing at all (hence why I included the disclaimer about Ryan's outside kicking game) and ultimately ends up having to test Hall's guard briefly via takedowns and top control to win rounds.

I'll readily concede that that all as one possible scenario, but I personally would be mildly surprised. Ilia's footwork and explosiveness have looked on-point in regards to cutting off the cage; he was able to do it against both Zalal and Jackson (particularly the latter). A way past-prime Gray Maynard on several occasions was able to blitz Ryan and catch him with a few shots, forcing him to either get on his bike or dive on a leg. Maynard was -- with all due respect -- a bit pillow-fisted. Ilia in that situation could exploit it far more IMO, especially since Hall has only gotten older and dealt with injuries in the interim. He may not be as spry as we're used to seeing. Ilia doesn't even need to knock Ryan out or down during said blitzes -- just land convincing, flush shots or even potentially rock him in a way that's convincing to the judges (which I think he's more than capable of). Given that he's the one who will be controlling the cage and pressing the action for most of the bout, he could very well steal rounds this way after having seen instances like the Oleksiejczuk/Bakauskas fight where sheer pressure/cage control seemed to win the day.

In other words, I'm not as ready as you are to to write off an entire range of fighting from a young, undefeated prospect who seems very good at utilizing it -- not even when he's facing someone who's as good at nullifying that particular range of fighting as The Wizard is. That being said, your points are well-taken and they've made me reexamine a few things out of curiosity.

I do favor Topuria here, but not by a massive margin TBH. 60/40 at the very most.

 

[ryun253]

Ryan Hall the career long prospect

 

[fortheo]

I know. This video details his fight style perfectly:


It's entirely possible that the fight will play out as you say: with Ilia unable to close the distance and implement his boxing at all (hence why I included the disclaimer about Ryan's outside kicking game) and ultimately ends up having to test Hall's guard briefly via takedowns and top control to win rounds.

I'll readily concede that that all as one possible scenario, but I personally would be mildly surprised. Ilia's footwork and explosiveness have looked on-point in regards to cutting off the cage; he was able to do it against both Zalal and Jackson (particularly the latter). A way past-prime Gray Maynard on several occasions was able to blitz Ryan and catch him with a few shots, forcing him to either get on his bike or dive on a leg. Maynard was -- with all due respect -- a bit pillow-fisted. Ilia in that situation could exploit it far more IMO, especially since Hall has only gotten older and dealt with injuries in the interim. He may not be as spry as we're used to seeing. Ilia doesn't even need to knock Ryan out or down during said blitzes -- just land convincing, flush shots or even potentially rock him in a way that's convincing to the judges (which I think he's more than capable of). Given that he's the one who will be controlling the cage and pressing the action for most of the bout, he could very well steal rounds this way after having seen instances like the Oleksiejczuk/Bakauskas fight where sheer pressure/cage control seemed to win the day.

In other words, I'm not as ready as you are to to write off an entire range of fighting from a young, undefeated prospect who seems very good at utilizing it -- not even when he's facing someone who's as good at nullifying that particular range of fighting as The Wizard is. That being said, your points are well-taken and they've made me reexamine a few things out of curiosity.

I do favor Topuria here, but not by a massive margin TBH. 60/40 at the very most.

If Topuria wins this one with boxing, I'll be very surprised. I don't see why Hall wouldn't just run away, pull guard, or roll for a leg any time he feels in danger in that range like he always has done in the past. I realize that Topuria has great pressure and he's great at cutting the cage off, but that won't prevent someone from dropping to the mat like Hall has been more than willing to do (some of his critics would say it's embarassing, but whatever).

I don't disagree that topuria will have some moments of success with his hands—I just think they'll be brief moments and I'm not sure if it will outweight the success that Hall will have with his kicks.

I think we'll know after round one exactly how this fight is going to play out. I'm curious to see what all these years with wonderboy and various other kickboxers has done for Hall. I always see him training with very high level guys from all disciplines. He's always looked better to me in each and every fight, so I won't be surprised if we see the best version of him yet in there.

It's a good fight for sure and I've got no problems with people favoring Topuria, but people acting like he's going to run through hall in there and dominate him surprise me. Hall's got a very, very, very defensive oriented game. It's hard to dominate a guy who just won't play your game.

 

[kalabula]

Topuria is a beast. He won his first 7 fights by Sub, and he's undefeated. His wrestling is awesome and his striking is really good as well. He has KO power.

Cardio is a bit suspect, but no way in hell Hall is going to make him work enough for it to be a problem here.

I think he's going to obliterate Hall unless he throws himself into a leg lock for some stupid reason.

Thanks for the breakdown. I’ve never even heard of the guy. Psyched to see him now.

 

[pick999]

I would bet on hall just for lolz.

 

[SKYNET]

Topuria is a stud. Hall is not

 

[TriangleMonkey]

I want Hall to lose and Topuria looks be a solid fighter.

The fact that Hall can be so dangerous in any kind of scramble makes it hard for me to put all my eggs in one basket.


I say 60/40 Llia and would not be surprised to see a flash ankle lock out a weird situation or Hall popping out the back-door for a slick back-take.

 

[Safton]

If Topuria wins this one with boxing, I'll be very surprised. I don't see why Hall wouldn't just run away, pull guard, or roll for a leg any time he feels in danger in that range like he always has done in the past. I realize that Topuria has great pressure and he's great at cutting the cage off, but that won't prevent someone from dropping to the mat like Hall has been more than willing to do (some of his critics would say it's embarassing, but whatever).

I don't disagree that topuria will have some moments of success with his hands—I just think they'll be brief moments and I'm not sure if it will outweight the success that Hall will have with his kicks.

I think we'll know after round one exactly how this fight is going to play out. I'm curious to see what all these years with wonderboy and various other kickboxers has done for Hall. I always see him training with very high level guys from all disciplines. He's always looked better to me in each and every fight, so I won't be surprised if we see the best version of him yet in there.

It's a good fight for sure and I've got no problems with people favoring Topuria, but people acting like he's going to run through hall in there and dominate him surprise me. Hall's got a very, very, very defensive oriented game. It's hard to dominate a guy who just won't play your game.

Like I said, I don't think Topuria will be able to box Hall up for any serious amount of time -- not with the way Ryan fights -- but I wouldn't be surprised if the brief flashes of success that he has on the feet will enable him to steal rounds in concert with his cage control and pressure. I don't think it would take much with the way judging has been trending lately (though of course it would also depend on what Hall does in that same round).

But yes, I think the story of the fight will likely be told early when Topuria is fresh and we get to see what answers he has in getting past Ryan's defensive "fence" of his kicks. If he can't explode in on him to land decisive shots in the first round, or at the very least adjust in the early part of Round 2 following some time in the corner, then Hall is going to run away with it and put a clinic on him that will likely get called boring as people get mad about him derailing a prospect via UD. I hope the time off has done wonders for Hall, but the inactivity, injuries, and "hurry up and wait" of starting and stopping training camps has me worried.

Even as someone who's picking Ilia in this spot, I agree that some are probably being more cavalier than they should be about it. Hall is an unorthodox and difficult opponent -- the exact kind of guy I could see pulling an upset.

 

[Doom]

You hate hall?
Lol he's such a nice dude. I don't get it.

Do you mean you just hate his fighting style?

No I actually hate that guy, talked an insane amount of shit saying no one wanted to fight him then went on a streak of pulling out, overall hes a massive waste of roster space

 

[Sticko]

No I actually hate that guy, talked an insane amount of shit saying no one wanted to fight him then went on a streak of pulling out, overall hes a massive waste of roster space

He talked a reasonable amount of shit about not getting the fights he wanted and then pulled out of fights with legitimate injuries

There's no such thing as a massive waste of roster space because these guys only get paid when they fight

My only problem with Hall is that he's not more willing to take short-notice fights

 

[mxer31]

it's NOT LLia it's iLia

fair enough

 

[Post 2 Decision]

How? He's a shorter boxer/ wrestler with good jitz. Hall is longer, karate style striker who absolutely doesn't exchange in boxing range, and has better jitz.

He will dictate where the fight takes place and his JJ ability should allow him to not get caught in anything silly

 

[Orochimaru 大蛇丸]

No I actually hate that guy, talked an insane amount of shit saying no one wanted to fight him then went on a streak of pulling out, overall hes a massive waste of roster space

People don't want to fight him lol, are you saying that was untrue?

 

[Doom]

He talked a reasonable amount of shit about not getting the fights he wanted and then pulled out of fights with legitimate

Cope harder. Hes an asshole and a crybaby