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Ryan Hall an underdog against Topuria?

Considering how one dimensional Ryan is, when someone comes along who can evade his heel hook, there's a good chance they can beat him. And that's what did in fact happen.

While I don't strictly disagree (read the rest of my posts in this thread), I think you're slightly oversimplifying. One also need be aware of Ryan's kicks. Gray Maynard and Darren Elkins were two good wrestlers with solid sub defense that primarily ran afoul of his kicks in their bouts with him. But fundamentally I think even those two had some level of fear and respect for Ryan's guard.

Ilia far less so. He was willing and able to take more chances and be more aggressive because he was confident in his ability to escape (or even reverse) any grappling attacks while landing his big power. Combine that with the fact Ryan threw waaaay fewer kicks than he usually does and a lot more lazy Imanari rolls and you get this result.

My take on it, anyway.
 
Welp.

@fortheo @lockankle

Any thoughts about how the fight turned out? I'm not trying to rub anything in, I'm legitimately curious. Even as someone who picked Topuria that one was an eyebrow-raiser for me.


Well, I thought hall shut down topurias boxing pretty well. He was landing three times more than Topuria was until Topuria finally followed hall to the mat and finished him.

I think hall needs more experience with MMA grappling because that shouldn't have been that easy. He was more preoccupied on getting a better position than he was with defending himself.

I'm not surprised because many high level BJJ guys struggle once strikes is mixed in with the grappling. I'm a little disappointed though because Hall is a smart guy-- I didn't think he'd make a mistake like that.

Topuria had a smart gameplan of waiting until the last thirty seconds before finally testing hall on the mat. It paid off for him.

I'm hoping he gets a ranked opponent next. As for Hall, i just hope he doesn't get cut. I strongly suspect the ufc hates him.
 
Hall has 2 moves, spinny kick and spinny summersault. Does he not want to fight, that was fucking bizarre. Edit, 3 moves. Loopy punch.
 
Hall has 2 moves, spinny kick and spinny summersault. Does he not want to fight, that was fucking bizarre. Edit, 3 moves. Loopy punch.

The previous generation of fighters just watched him spinning kick them in the face because they didn't know what to do. The Elkins fight is insane, he is absolutely bewildered by it. Gray Maynard was competent defensively, but couldn't figure out a way to actually hurt Hall.

But fighters like Ilia and good, young fighters aren't going to be as dazzled by quirky moves and peculiar timing.

I'm not sure who Hall will submit that's not a complete rookie or ready for retirement, to be honest. Everyone seems to expect him to just pull heel hooks out of nowhere, but he's only done it once since he lost the final of TUF. He's not exactly been tapping guys left, right and centre.
 
The previous generation of fighters just watched him spinning kick them in the face because they didn't know what to do. The Elkins fight is insane, he is absolutely bewildered by it. Gray Maynard was competent defensively, but couldn't figure out a way to actually hurt Hall.

But fighters like Ilia and good, young fighters aren't going to be as dazzled by quirky moves and peculiar timing.

I'm not sure who Hall will submit that's not a complete rookie or ready for retirement, to be honest. Everyone seems to expect him to just pull heel hooks out of nowhere, but he's only done it once since he lost the final of TUF. He's not exactly been tapping guys left, right and centre.
Sure, but thats the ONLY thing he's looking for in the cage. Heelhook or bust
 
Well, I thought hall shut down topurias boxing pretty well. He was landing three times more than Topuria was until Topuria finally followed hall to the mat and finished him.

I think hall needs more experience with MMA grappling because that shouldn't have been that easy. He was more preoccupied on getting a better position than he was with defending himself.

I'm not surprised because many high level BJJ guys struggle once strikes is mixed in with the grappling. I'm a little disappointed though because Hall is a smart guy-- I didn't think he'd make a mistake like that.

Topuria had a smart gameplan of waiting until the last thirty seconds before finally testing hall on the mat. It paid off for him.

I'm hoping he gets a ranked opponent next. As for Hall, i just hope he doesn't get cut. I strongly suspect the ufc hates him.

I agree for the most part, though I feel like Topuria was landing some decent shots on the feet especially in the second half of the round even if he got outstruck on pure volume. There was one that seemed to visibly sting Hall in particular -- he stopped and blinked like "whoa" before getting back to it. Not anywhere close to his usual level of success in the boxing range, but I don't feel like he was totally shut down.

I also don't remember Ryan being so heavy on his rolls to the neglect of his kicks before. Again, I know he was technically outstriking him by the numbers, but as it went on I felt it was clear that he wasn't really earning Topuria's respect in any one area. Against Elkins and Maynard -- unless I'm remembering incorrectly -- he was a lot more aggressive with his kickboxing and primarily rolled defensively or when he perceived openings. IMO, he needed more of that rather than trying to simply be awkward and "chain-wrestle" with Imanaris.

Speaking of which, how on Earth did Ryan Hall miss the boat of the rest of the no-gi guys and not develop a legitimate takedown game beyond the Imanari? Like a few years ago Keenan Cornelius was complaining on some podcast about how the competitive no-gi scene was "imploding" because it was dominated not only by leg locks, but wrestling. Most guys coming out of Danaher's basement have a mix of dominant wrestling and Judo takedowns, trips, throws, sweeps, and entanglements. It may be too late, but if Demian Maia leveled up his offensive wrestling to a respectable level and made title runs into two different divisions, maybe Ryan could do the same. Get a couple of Ws and even a number next to his name before retiring.

I'm not hating on the Imanari -- it's cool as hell and plays into his style quite well, but he needs to vary it up IMO. In his first few fights on the regional scene, he showed the ability to take people's back, sink in an RNC, and GnP dudes out from other positions rather than just diving on legs. For what it's worth, I've been saying the same thing about Chase Hooper -- he should go train with his dad in wrestling for a while.
 
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I agree for the most part, though I feel like Topuria was landing some decent shots on the feet especially in the second half of the round regardless of the numbers. There was one that seemed to visibly sting Hall in particular -- he stopped and blinked like "whoa" before getting back to it. Not anywhere close to his usual level of success in the boxing range, but I don't feel like he was totally shut down.

I also don't remember him being so heavy on his rolls to the neglect of his kicks before. Again, I know he was technically outstriking him by the numbers, but as it went on I felt it was clear that he wasn't really earning Topuria's respect in any one area. Against Elkins and Maynard -- unless I'm remembering incorrectly -- he was a lot more aggressive with his kickboxing and primarily rolled defensively or when he perceived openings. IMO, he needed more of that rather than trying to simply be awkward and "chain-wrestle" with Imanaris.

Speaking of which, how on Earth did Ryan Hall miss the boat of the rest of the no-gi guys and not develop a legitimate takedown game beyond the Imanari? Like a few years ago Keenan Cornelius was complaining about how no-gi was "imploding" because it was dominated not only by leglocks, but wrestling. Most guys coming out of Danaher's basement have a mix of dominant wrestling and Judo takedowns, trips, throws, sweeps, and entanglements. It may be too late, but if Demian Maia leveled up his offensive wrestling to a respectable level and made title runs into two different divisions, maybe Ryan could get a couple of Ws and even a number next to his name before retiring.

I'm not hating on the Imanari -- it's cool as hell and plays into his style quite well, but he needs to vary it up IMO. In his first few fights on the regional scene, he showed the ability to achieve RNCs and GnP dudes out from other positions rather than just diving on legs. For what it's worth, I've been saying the same thing about Chase Hooper -- he should go train with his dad in wrestling for a while.
Yeah, to be honest I did some mental gymnastics in his previous fights, figuring he's probably saving the energy/injury risk of a heavy wrestling game plan for if his rolls don't do the job, which they did on all the old heads. But it surprised me that a renowned grappler like him hasn't focused more on wrestling especially between fights.
 
I agree for the most part, though I feel like Topuria was landing some decent shots on the feet especially in the second half of the round regardless of the numbers. There was one that seemed to visibly sting Hall in particular -- he stopped and blinked like "whoa" before getting back to it. Not anywhere close to his usual level of success in the boxing range, but I don't feel like he was totally shut down.

I also don't remember him being so heavy on his rolls to the neglect of his kicks before. Again, I know he was technically outstriking him by the numbers, but as it went on I felt it was clear that he wasn't really earning Topuria's respect in any one area. Against Elkins and Maynard -- unless I'm remembering incorrectly -- he was a lot more aggressive with his kickboxing and primarily rolled defensively or when he perceived openings. IMO, he needed more of that rather than trying to simply be awkward and "chain-wrestle" with Imanaris.

Speaking of which, how on Earth did Ryan Hall miss the boat of the rest of the no-gi guys and not develop a legitimate takedown game beyond the Imanari? Like a few years ago Keenan Cornelius was complaining about how no-gi was "imploding" because it was dominated not only by leglocks, but wrestling. Most guys coming out of Danaher's basement have a mix of dominant wrestling and Judo takedowns, trips, throws, sweeps, and entanglements. It may be too late, but if Demian Maia leveled up his offensive wrestling to a respectable level and made title runs into two different divisions, maybe Ryan could get a couple of Ws and even a number next to his name before retiring.

I'm not hating on the Imanari -- it's cool as hell and plays into his style quite well, but he needs to vary it up IMO. In his first few fights on the regional scene, he showed the ability to achieve RNCs and GnP dudes out from other positions rather than just diving on legs. For what it's worth, I've been saying the same thing about Chase Hooper -- he should go train with his dad in wrestling for a while.

Age is the issue with Ryan. He has a lot of great qualities, but he just doesn't have the time to bring them to their full potential at the highest level of MMA unfortunately. I agree, though, he needs to mix in some other type of takedowns. Something like the single leg to half guard sweep that maia used would really suit his game and it's not a typical takedown, so it would still fit Ryan's meta of being a complete enigma out there lol. That type of takedown especially suit's Ryan's game since he is usually in the opposite stance of his opponent, so the single leg is right there (him and maia both being southpaws).

I'm still looking forward to seeing what he does next, but yeah, time has pretty much run out.
 
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Ryan hall an idiot he didn’t even have a plan b
 
I thought this was the lock on the card. I'm $300 bucks happier now than before the fight.
 
Considering how one dimensional Ryan is, when someone comes along who can evade his heel hook, there's a good chance they can beat him. And that's what did in fact happen.
Just like Paul harris
 
Topuria is a stud. Hall is not
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Age is the issue with Ryan. He has a lot of great qualities, but he just doesn't have the time to bring them to their full potential at the highest level of MMA unfortunately. I agree, though, he needs to mix in some other type of takedowns. Something like the single leg to half guard sweep that maia used would really suit his game and it's not a typical takedown, so it would still fit Ryan's meta of being a complete enigma out there lol. That type of takedown especially suit's Ryan's game since he is usually in the opposite stance of his opponent, so the single leg is right there (him and maia both being southpaws).

I'm still looking forward to seeing what he does next, but yeah, time has pretty much run out.

Agreed on both counts. Even though I was gassing up Ilia in this thread, I've always been a bit of a low-key fan of Hall (though half the time I feel like I need to replace "fan" with "apologist" considering how much hate he gets). He is an extreme specialist in an era where those are increasingly rare. A very puzzling, unorthodox, and occasionally flashy specialist at that.

I hope he improves his game as much as is viable at this stage and picks up a couple of fun Ws before leaving MMA. I'd consider it a win even if he made it into the Top 15 at this point tbh. That's his belt as far as I'm concerned, but he has his work cut out for him.
 
Clearly untrue. Hall was always delusional. I think Ige was down to fight him and he pulled out and complained about not getting a top guy, and say people were ducking him. He seems like a nice dude, but dude was always deluded.
I think Ige was down, but they both got injured so it didn't happen. I don't know for sure people were ducking him, I just doubt he was lying, why would he want to sit out that long?
 
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