Ryan Hall an underdog against Topuria?

[Safton]

I lean towards Hall. The only guys I see giving Hall trouble are disciplined kickers. Yair, Zabit, Ortega, Volk . Hall might even be an interesting fight with Holloway. Max lives off his boxing and you simply can't box Hall. Hall avoids boxing like the plague. Previous replies said you could possibly beat him by leaping into boxing throwing a few punches and then leaping out of range to get away from him grabbing your legs. You'll never hurt him but the judges would see your aggression and reward you with the round. I don't see this happening. You either commit to striking from the outside or you try your hand at staying in his guard all night throwing litter pat punching

You're putting a pretty tremendous ceiling on a guy who hasn't accomplished much in the division and I say that as a fan of Hall and his style. No disrespect here, just interesting to see is all.

As for the rest of your post since it was evidently directed at my own: it's entirely possible, but I personally disagree. I haven't seen enough from Ryan in his fights to be convinced that he can completely and utterly nullify the boxing range in fights where judging is concerned. Maynard was able to blitz him on multiple occasions -- if Topuria can do the same (a big "if", I'll admit) -- and land even one big shot in the ensuing flurry/scramble, he could steal an otherwise competitive round. It's also worth noting that he might very well be willing to take more chances (for better or worse) with Ryan's defensive leg-locks than others were due to his own grappling pedigree. We've seen fighters absorb punishment from GnP when trying to lock up legs, including Hall's own training partner very recently -- though admittedly Hooper is nowhere near the fighter Ryan is (though he also was not fighting anywhere near the caliber of opponent of Topuria).

I'm not writing Hall off just yet as many are, but I'll be fairly impressed if he is able to deal with Topuria's game as easily as you're implying.

 

[fortheo]

I feel like this was another vindictive move by dana. I don't why these two had to fight now, on the early preliminaries of all places.

I think he wants a very dangerous, but simultaneously very unknown fighter to take Hall out of the picture to be honest.

Even if Hall wins, it's over a guy that most people other than hardcores don't know, so it's not like Hall will raise his stock enough to have lots of bargaining power with contract renewals or future matchmaking decisions.

 

[dr. john lee]

And finally -- on top of all of this -- he actually began his career as a high-level submission specialist and is a legit BJJ Black Belt. His first seven pro wins were all submission finishes via a myriad of different techniques: triangle choke, RNC, guillotine (both mounted and conventional), anaconda choke, and a triangle straight armbar. Now a couple of those opponents had 0-0 or negative records, but some of them were pretty legit guys on the regional scene with more experience than him when Topuria finished them (6-1, 7-1, 8-1, etc.). This isn't to say that Topuria is going to be able to go to the mat and play the ADCC game with Ryan -- I absolutely don't think he can -- but only to say that between his obvious knowledge of the BJJ meta as it applies to MMA and his scrambling ability from his wrestling base, he shouldn't be a total fish out of water should the fight briefly go to the ground or should The Wizard get a hold of him. Other fighters have shut Ryan's attack down before with solid game-planning.

Not doubting any of what you say at all, but why then was he able to go through BJ Penn (legit BJJ Black belt) like sliced butter? Age?

 

[Ryoto Machida]

Not doubting any of what you say at all, but why then was he able to go through BJ Penn (legit BJJ Black belt) like sliced butter? Age?

BJ's not only physically spent, he's beyond mentally spent. At one point BJ may have been able to outgrapple Hall, those days are long gone though. He did the worst possible thing when Hall tied up the leg and rolled right INTO the heel hook. A baffling move for someone with the credentials of Penn, and to me more a sign that he just doesn't train seriously anymore, on the ground or the feet.

 

[Rockapotomuss]

Public service announcement, this fight has been moved off the early early prelims and onto the prelims

 

[Safton]

Not doubting any of what you say at all, but why then was he able to go through BJ Penn (legit BJJ Black belt) like sliced butter? Age?

Yeah, pretty much. Age, fight mileage, take your pick. BJ is a legend, but take a look at the record of his last ten bouts going into that fight: 2-7-1*, on a five-fight skid with multiple losses via TKO. His last win was in 2010 while the fight against Hall happened in 2018. A big red flag is the fact Penn rolled the wrong way and torqued the heel hook even further, wrecking his own knee and doing Hall's job for him. We saw with Jacare the effects of age and wear & tear on a once-world class submission specialist. In other words, BJ was a shadow of a shell of his former self at that point.

I haven't actually seen Hall's first pro fight that he lost to know if he was able to threaten any submissions. But Saul Rogers on TUF was able to famously shut down his leg-lock attacks with sound defensive grappling in the space of one impromptu training camp (obviously Ryan has gotten better since then, albeit older and dealt with a few injuries).

*A lot of people scored the Draw with Fitch in Jon's favor, so with slightly different judging that record becomes 2-8.

 

[Deleted member 579771]

Dont know much about Llia Topuria but was pretty suprised to see him sitting at -230 and Ryan Hall at +185. Tempted to throw some money down on Hall straight up and possibly by sub? What do you guys think about this fight? and whats the story behind Topuria? He must be a great grappler to be a fav against Hall but what else does he have to offer?

He is great grappler and great striker. So no chance for Hall.

 

[mxer31]

No, that’s a stupid conclusion.
Don’t be stupid.
Even if topuria had no sub wins all his career and has never competed in bjj or wrestling in his life, he should still be at least a very slight favourite.

Ryan has competed 3 times in tthe last 5 years.
Coming off a 2 year lay off and covid at age 36.

he is fighting an undefeated 10-0-0 fighter who finished most of his opponents in the first round. As opposed to ryan’s 8-1 full of decisions.

now the fact that most of those first round wins are by sub, should make the other guy a huge favourite against the corpse.

ryan is funnier though, but this isnt a “stand up” battles. *drum roll*

what was my "conclusion" that wad so stupid?

 

[KillerIsBack V2]

what was my "conclusion" that wad so stupid?

When you said this:

He must be a great grappler to be a fav against Hall but what else does he have to offer?

Very very stupid.. no offense.
As if the only way to be a fav over Ryan in betting odds is to be a great grappler.
Look at Adesanya and Francis.

 

[mxer31]

When you said this:

Very very stupid.. no offense.
As if the only way to be a fav over Ryan in betting odds is to be a great grappler.
Look at Adesanya and Francis.

lol you are an idiot... is he not a great grappler? and if he wasnt.. he wouldnt be that large of a favorite against one of the best submission guys in the ufc. so pipe down next time you get into my threads before talking dumb shit.

 

[Sticko]

BJ's not only physically spent, he's beyond mentally spent. At one point BJ may have been able to outgrapple Hall, those days are long gone though. He did the worst possible thing when Hall tied up the leg and rolled right INTO the heel hook. A baffling move for someone with the credentials of Penn, and to me more a sign that he just doesn't train seriously anymore, on the ground or the feet.

Technical question, since there are inside heel hooks and outside heel hooks, which torque the leg in opposite directions, does that not effect the direction you're supposed to roll? Do you roll the same regardless, and if not, how do you make that determination quickly?

 

[Ryoto Machida]

Technical question, since there are inside heel hooks and outside heel hooks, which torque the leg in opposite directions, does that not effect the direction you're supposed to roll? Do you roll the same regardless, and if not, how do you make that determination quickly?

You gotta roll with the torque, while trying to extract the leg past the knee line. And the answer to how you make that determination quickly is really muscle memory. It's like with the hitchhiker armbar defense. If you're at a blue belt level you've drilled this escape so many times that you don't "forget" which way to roll, you feel it. If you're training to fight Ryan Hall, you'd better goddamn well drill that heel hook escape so many times it's embedded into muscle memory, and accidentally rolling the wrong way isn't even a possibility. Which tells me BJ was just really not training seriously.

Update with video:
Timestamped


And see how Penn does the exact opposite:

 

[KillerIsBack V2]

lol you are an idiot... is he not a great grappler? and if he wasnt.. he wouldnt be that large of a favorite against one of the best submission guys in the ufc. so pipe down next time you get into my threads before talking dumb shit.

… idk what ur so triggered about.
I specifically mentioned the reasons why this unknown guy is the fav over Hall’s corpse.

you’re calling me names cause ur angry. on the other hand I’m describing you as stupid cause it’s fact I proved with common sense and clear evidence.

 

[RampageFaction]

 

[Eternalwarriorking]

It seems like the grappling credentials + Topuria's physicality should be enough to edge it out. Really interesting matchup

 

[HockeyBjj]

Ufc clearly sick of Ryan Hall and his inactivity. Even tried to bury him on early prelims

matched him up against a no name with good jiu jitsu, and defending against good jits is easier than attacking.

 

[CorninginChristianburg]

https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/2021/07/ufc-264-ilia-topuria-confident-ryan-hall-chess-match
Topuria seems to have no respect for Hall haha

 

[bigbosssnake]

https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/2021/07/ufc-264-ilia-topuria-confident-ryan-hall-chess-match
Topuria seems to have no respect for Hall haha

Lmao


This guy went Ham on Hall

Let's see if he backs it up

 

[Safton]

Welp.

@fortheo @lockankle

Any thoughts about how the fight turned out? I'm not trying to rub anything in, I'm legitimately curious. Even as someone who picked Topuria that one was an eyebrow-raiser for me.

 

[wwkirk]

Welp.

@fortheo @lockankle

Any thoughts about how the fight turned out? I'm not trying to rub anything in, I'm legitimately curious. Even as someone who picked Topuria that one was an eyebrow-raiser for me.

Considering how one dimensional Ryan is, when someone comes along who can evade his heel hook, there's a good chance they can beat him. And that's what did in fact happen.