International Russia vs Ukraine Combat Megathread vol 4

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"Loose lips sink ships..."

For those that never served in the military, you have three key terms hammered into you from day one (and I joined in 1987).

Opsec - Operations security

Infosec - Information security

Cryptosec - Systems security

"For want of a rider, the message was lost. For want of the message, the battle was lost. For want of a battle, the war was lost. For want of the war, the kingdom was lost."

"Loose lips, sink ships."
I want to give this post much love. I was a submarine sailor. You never told anyone where you were going.
 
It changes very little old chap. In neither country are neo-Nazis the arbiters of state power. This is a state on state invasion, an act of aggression from one U.N. member state against another without authorization from the U.N.

It’s a text book war crime.

If we were to later discover that Neo-Nazis in Ukraine had access to nuclear weapons or presented a clear and present danger to world peace, the moral landscape would shift and we would have to do some thinking. But that isn’t the case at all….

Agreed!
 
yes it changes the analysis. There should have been more willingness to avoid conflict and neutralize the situation

Nationalism in that part of the world is different from what westerners are used to, but these groups are always going to be the ones who grab any power vacuum that pops up in the chaos. They're the ones who locals will start looking to the longer this is drawn out, they will have the most inflammatory/nationalist rhetoric, willing to take the most extreme measure to fight against the invading force, and their numbers will grow. I see this situation as another in a long line of the US backing the reactionary force in a region, either directly or indirectly, feeding them weapons, steering the situation into conflict.
Backing a reactionary force? Steering the situation? Buddy I get you are anti American, your history shows that, but you can not actually believe that. What do you expect a country to do when it is invaded by a neighbor? They react. Putin is the driver of this ship, and if you believe the US and NATO started this, than Russia is the reactionary force. Your circular logic doesn't work. 95% of the world is supporting Ukraine, not just Nato or the West so what does that say? What does it say when the only ones that support Russia are run by dictators and anti freedom regimes? Putin really screwed himself and his people with this one, you know it, but still blame the US. Pathetic.
 
I went in with an open mind, but LMFAO that this Brit is giving "the Russian" perspective. Unless by "the Russian" you mean "the Kremlin's" or even more specifically "Putin's". He's a mouthpiece for Vlad. Really sold that the Nazis were in fact running the Ukrainian government...just wow.

I have business relationships with a lot of Russian nationals, some are good friends. They have family back home. They have a much different perspective on this war, and I'll take their views as more representative of the Russian populace than this joker.

But...I bet you do enjoy his videos, absolutely no surprise there. Carry on, bud.

what is the 30,000 ft. view of your Russian buddies?
 
I think the US said no way to this?

All this “Polish MiG’s” story is just a stupid hype-train - those MiG’s are a piles of junk, useless for Ukrainians, because their capabilities as an assault craft are very limited (basically, manual targeting) and even more useless as a fighter crafts - Ukrainian aerospace is fully controlled by Russians, that’s why the yet existing Ukrainian crafts are flying on super-low altitudes.
MiG-29 modification, available in Poland, is “9-12”, armed with R-27 missiles, which has effective range almost twice less than available in Russia R-77, R-73 and RVV-SD missiles. As for radars capabilities, you don’t even need to compare them :D.
So, it’s either some coverage for importing modern aircrafts or just a hype.
 
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In thinking a little more about this deal with the Poles giving those Migs over with the unspoken intention they go to the Ukrainians...there's some logistical issues I'm wondering about (if the US did in fact try to get them to the Ukrainians). Like, are they gonna try to get all those Ukrainian pilots out of the country and to Germany to get a quick crash course in how to fly them (I know they know how to fly Migs, but with the Polish instruments on board, etc.) The US can't have their own pilots fly them into the Ukraine obviously, what would happen if they encountered Russian anti-aircraft battalions, etc. They may have to engage to not be shot down, that's war.

I'm not really sure how this would work. Maybe someone has a plan but...
The plan was that Poland was supposed to send them to a third party non NATO country where they would be flown into Ukraine by Ukrainian pilots. Poland didn't want that liability so they were like you want to handle that USA? Here you go, we'll even get them to you for free. Basically told the US to do it themselves or fuck off about it.
 
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Elon Musk is all in for this stuff.


"Polaris Dawn will fly aboard a SpaceX Crew Dragon capsule, with mission goals including completing the first-ever commercial spacewalk, testing Starlink laser-based communications in space and performing science experiments."
 
Exhibit a) of why I can't support Ukrainian government.
What if we locked all the Russian Nazis and the Ukrainians Nazis in a big room together and made them fight to the death?
 
But our media says that these guys in Ukraine dont have any influence how does the media explain why the far right are within Ukraine's military?
Why are the far right within the Russian military?
 
Backing a reactionary force? Steering the situation? Buddy I get you are anti American, your history shows that, but you can not actually believe that. What do you expect a country to do when it is invaded by a neighbor? They react. Putin is the driver of this ship, and if you believe the US and NATO started this, than Russia is the reactionary force. Your circular logic doesn't work. 95% of the world is supporting Ukraine, not just Nato or the West so what does that say? What does it say when the only ones that support Russia are run by dictators and anti freedom regimes? Putin really screwed himself and his people with this one, you know it, but still blame the US. Pathetic.
don't buddy me, pal ;). Reactionary doesn't mean you react to something. Not my intention to insult, but it's a basic political term with a specific meaning.

My tax dollars didn't go to the Russian ministry of the interior who funded and backed the Russian NeoNazi groups for the past decade. My tax dollars didn't lead to the CIA training Russians in the region. The billions in lethal aid, the predatory loans. My tax dollars and potential votes feed into this system, not Russia's.

The western oligarchs who saw the energy reserves in Ukraine and took a renewed interest in getting their guys into position of power are more of my concern than the ones Putin tries to coerce or work with. Putin is an autocratic kleptocrat who apparently has a circle of like 5 people, the entire world is telling us everything about him. He fucked Russia no doubt with this blunder, the entire world knows it, next to no one is talking about how weaponizing SWIFT will lead to China gaining influence in the coming decades. Certain things are reported in certain ways, my dog in this fight is the Ukrainian people. That's why I will level criticism at dangling NATO in front of Ukraine with absolutely no intention of letting them in - where is this being talked about? It was an absolutely disgusting move. Having them do the west's dirty work of weakening Russia. A little balance is not a bad thing, sherbro
 
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Looks like China is going to the yard sale
Btw I feel that China is by far the largest beneficiary of all of this


China pushing state-owned firms to buy Russian oil, gas metals assets
  • Beijing is in talks with state-owned enterprises "SOEs" regarding opportunities to scoop up Russian companies and assets, according to Bloomberg.
  • The news comes on the back of European and US firms announcing exits from Russian holdings, including BP's (NYSE:BP) sale of Rosneft (OTCPK:RNFTF), Exxon's (NYSE:XOM) exit from Sakhalin, and Shell's (NYSE:SHEL) exit from a series of assets and joint ventures.
  • China's foreign minister Wang Yi said earlier this week that China-Russia ties remain "rock solid."
  • It was previously reported that Rosneft (OTCPK:RNFTF) was a likely bidder for BP's (BP) ~20% equity stake in the Russian producer.
  • Western companies are in a difficult position, facing social and investor pressure to divest from Russia; selling assets at reduced prices to Russia does little to help investors, help Ukraine or hurt Russia; with China emerging as a likely buyer, it will be interesting to see if asset prices rise or Western companies re-think exit strategies.
 
what is the 30,000 ft. view of your Russian buddies?

It varies. Honestly, there are a few who are trying to tell their families back home it's war and what's going on and some of their family members refuse to believe them. Like, they're so cut off that they have no idea what's happening and actually believe the Russian troops are doing military exercises and are giving the Ukrainians food and blankets and stuff. That's only some though. Most are against the war that know what's happening but for example one guy that I know pretty well Alex, his parents are against the invasion but don't really want to even talk on the phone with him about it. They're paranoid that the Russian govt is listening in.

The vibe I get is that the biggest concern for most is the economic impact they are feeling. And the foreboding that it's gonna get much worse.
 
I personally disagree with your 2nd point as the civilian casualties don't lead me to believe Russia is more likely to target civilian... honestly I go the other way. But it is food for thought
I think it was clear and both sides will agree to this, Russia were avoiding targeting citizens at first but they clearly changed their rules of engagement as Ukrainian resistance became apparent. I wouldn't go so far as to say they are trying maximize civilian casualties now but I would say they really don't seem to care either way now. There is no way you can deliberately bomb and shell residential apartment blocks and being trying to minimise civilian casualties at the same time.
 
What if we locked all the Russian Nazis and the Ukrainians Nazis in a big room together and made them fight to the death?

Why don’t you propose that to Putin and Zelensky
 
Toronto Canada got a scare where huge number of tanks traveling over a bridge for what Canada said moving for a training exercise. But during this time people were shocked. The official statement was training but people think something bad.



Haha, that would be very weird to see, given everything that is going on. I was curious where the drills were taking place and saw this other post. I love how their annual biggest military training exercise is called Opperation Maple Resolve

They do it every year, this being the 22nd year



 
don't buddy me, pal ;). Reactionary doesn't mean you react to something. Not my intention to insult, but it's a basic political term with a specific meaning.

My tax dollars didn't go to the Russian ministry of the interior who funded and backed the Russian NeoNazi groups for the past decade. My tax dollars didn't lead to the CIA training Russians in the region. The billions in lethal aid. My tax dollars and potential votes feed into this system, not Russia's.

The western oligarchs who saw the energy reserves in Ukraine and took a renewed interest in getting their guys into position of power are more of my concern than the ones Putin tries to coerce or work with. Putin is an autocratic kleptocrat who apparently has a circle of like 5 people, the entire world is telling us everything about him. He fucked Russia no doubt with this blunder, the entire world knows it, next to no one is talking about how weaponizing SWIFT will lead to China gaining influence in the coming decades. Certain things are reported in certain ways, my dog in this fight is the Ukrainian people. That's why I will level criticism at dangling NATO in front of Ukraine with absolutely no intention of letting them in - where is this being talked about? It was an absolutely disgusting move. Having them do the west's dirty work of weakening Russia. A little balance is not a bad thing, sherbro
Well said. Ukraine was maneuvered into being a target for Russia to hit and weaken itself. It’s was set up imho. Really tragic that they are dying for some pointless reason. Russia is an oligarchy and of course it’s awful it I expected a bit more from the west than all this
 
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