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International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V9

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More hype than anything like I said before...

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/turns-russia-overselling-unstoppable-hypersonic-213200799.html

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Turns Out Russia Is Overselling Its 'Unstoppable' Hypersonic Missile

Darren Orf
Fri, February 3, 2023 at 1:32 PM PST


b72d7ad558ecbaf81f0248f77bdec7b2

Hypersonic Missiles Still Can’t Handle the HeatAP
You can’t spell “hypersonic” without “hype,” and right now, the much-talked-about Mach 5 weapons system is an obsession of the world’s largest militaries.

China successfully tested a Mach 5 weapon back in 2021—with one U.S. general calling the launch a near “Sputnik” moment—and Russia has been talking about the weapons since 2018, when it produced a sizzle reel of one hypersonic missile, the Kh-47M2 Kinzhal, blowing up Florida. Not to be outmatched, the U.S. has around 70 (yes, seven-zero) efforts to develop hypersonic technologies including bombers, missiles, and the engines to power them.

In fact, just this week, Vladimir Putin announced imminent plans to test his frigate-launched Zircon hypersonic missile, which can supposedly reach speeds of Mach 9. The embattled Russian leader took part in the farewell ceremony (albeit remotely) of the Admiral Gorshkov frigate back in January, and the ship will launch the missile during a training exercise with South Africa and China navies later this month. Russia says it’ll be “the first-ever [launch] during an event of this kind,” though the launch is likely a show of force to the West more than anything.

While an “unstoppable” Russian missile would certainly be a problem for the U.S. (along with most of Europe), Putin might be overselling the weapon’s capabilities.

In 2021, Nikolai Yevmenov, commander-in-chief of the Russian Navy, told a Russian news site that the weapon still had problems—and some of those problems are likely highlighted in a new report by the U.S. Congressional Budget Office.

While the 72-page report did find that hypersonic missiles “have the speed to be useful in the early stages of a conflict,” the report also threw some cold water on the red-hot hype surrounding hypersonic technology. The biggest dose of reality is that the technology still hasn’t found a way to manage the immense amount of heat produced by a system traveling in excess of Mach 5.

From the report:

“Shielding hypersonic missiles’ sensitive electronics, understanding how various materials perform, and predicting aerodynamics at sustained temperatures as high as 3,000° Fahrenheit require extensive flight testing. Tests are ongoing, but failures in recent years have delayed progress.”

The second big bummer is cost. While some 300 ground- or sea-launched, intermediate-range ballistic missiles cost $13.4 billion (which isn’t exactly a pittance in itself), the same number of hypersonic missiles would cost closer to $18 billion.

The report also mentions that while a hypersonic ability to avoid air defense systems is pretty good, ballistic missiles aren’t slouches and “are also difficult to defend against, particularly if they are equipped with countermeasures to confuse midcourse missile defenses and maneuverable warheads to defeat short-range missile defenses.”

Hypersonic missiles, engines, planes, and bombers will no likely continue developing at speeds befitting their Mach 5 capabilities. But at least according to this report, the era of hypersonic weapons completely redefining modern warfare is still a ways off in the future.
"
 
So just to conclude tonight’s discussion. Everyone seems to be in agreement this is an extended conflict and won’t commit to a prediction until about 10-20 years out, and that prediction is Russias reputation will be tarnished from its current amazing reputation?

But in 20 years, who is betting Crimea will be under Ukraine control. Anyone committing to that 20 year long bet?

10-20 years? LOL!

This shit may be settled by June or at least there will be a clear indication of how it will end. If not it may drag on for a couple more years. 20 years? Russia is not guaranteed to survive next couple years. Its foreign reserves are being quickly spent. Its oil and gas revenue has been significantly reduced from their already relatively small economy.

This war is not sustainable for Russia.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/putin-inventing-type-military-ukraine-161800053.html

"
Putin inventing “new type of military” after Ukraine liquidated almost his entire army

Fri, February 3, 2023 at 8:18 AM PST


679e96eb3aca6aeed68b47c79b1f79fe

The helmet of a Russian soldier at the ruins of the vocational training center in Makiivka, in which Russia housed the mobilized, and which was destroyed by an attack by the Armed Forces of Ukraine
“If you do even a certain simple calculation, it turns out that during the year of hostilities, the Armed Forces of Ukraine had disposed of almost the entire conventional army of the Russian Federation,” he stated.

Read also: Russian military base near Melitopol destroyed

"That is, professionally trained, contract workers who served for several years, practiced offensive tasks. It is worth noting that the airborne assault troops of the Russian army, which were intended as almost the main shock fist in operations of any type, were almost completely eliminated.”

Kyrychevsky noted that since the personnel of the Russian army is “almost completely depleted”, the Putin regime “has to invent a new type of soldier who will serve.”

Read also: National Guard downs Russian Su-25 near Bakhmut

“If before that it was personnel who served professionally, now the average military man is either a “Wagnerite” (member of the Wagner mercenary group) or a covertly mobilized ‘Cossack’ who was previously trained under the system of the so-called combat army reserve,” the expert said.

As of Feb. 3, according to the General Staff, the Armed Forces of Ukraine have eliminated almost 130,000 Russian soldiers, including 840 during the past 24 hours.

Read also: Putin may have overestimated Russian military’s own capabilities to capture Donbas by March — ISW

According to the U.S. newspaper The New York Times, since the beginning of the full-scale invasion of Ukraine, the Russian army has lost up to 200,000 servicemembers, both killed and wounded.

According to Olga Romanova, head of the non-governmental organization Russia Behind Bars, only 10,000 out of the 50,000 Russian prisoners recruited by Kremlin’s Wagner Group to participate in a full-scale war against Ukraine have continued to serve, while the rest were killed, wounded, missing, surrendered, or deserted.

Meanwhile, according to presidential advisor Mykhailo Podolyak, the Wagner mercenaries press-ganged 38,244 prisoners in order to use them in the full-scale war against Ukraine. As of mid-January, 29,543 of them had already been neutralized.
"
 
that is a good summary, but where am I off with my current assessment?

I am just asking when you think Crimea might be reclaimed

I'm kind of doubting Crimea will ever be reclaimed. The Russians have had 9 years to really fortify it and also relocated 1 million Russians into the peninsula. Plus Ukraine doesn't have the capability to do an amphibious landing so have to enter through this tiny strip of land that will be heavily guarded and have mines all over. It would be really hard militarily - but doable if given enough military aid.

Plus who knows how the civilian populace would react with so many pro-Russian people there.

What makes it interesting is that if Ukraine starts winning again with modern weapons, they can hit the bridge that connects Crimea to Russia and also all the key locations within. They could essentially choke Crimea from getting any supplies in using HIMARS and the new missiles that are coming in from the US.

So it is possible, but I don't think likely IMO.
 
10-20 years? LOL!

This shit may be settled by June or at least there will be a clear indication of how it will end. If not it may drag on for a couple more years. 20 years? Russia is not guaranteed to survive next couple years. Its foreign reserves are being quickly spent. Its oil and gas revenue has been significantly reduced from their already relatively small economy.

This war is not sustainable for Russia.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/putin-inventing-type-military-ukraine-161800053.html

"
Putin inventing “new type of military” after Ukraine liquidated almost his entire army

Fri, February 3, 2023 at 8:18 AM PST


679e96eb3aca6aeed68b47c79b1f79fe

The helmet of a Russian soldier at the ruins of the vocational training center in Makiivka, in which Russia housed the mobilized, and which was destroyed by an attack by the Armed Forces of Ukraine
“If you do even a certain simple calculation, it turns out that during the year of hostilities, the Armed Forces of Ukraine had disposed of almost the entire conventional army of the Russian Federation,” he stated.

Read also: Russian military base near Melitopol destroyed

"That is, professionally trained, contract workers who served for several years, practiced offensive tasks. It is worth noting that the airborne assault troops of the Russian army, which were intended as almost the main shock fist in operations of any type, were almost completely eliminated.”

Kyrychevsky noted that since the personnel of the Russian army is “almost completely depleted”, the Putin regime “has to invent a new type of soldier who will serve.”

Read also: National Guard downs Russian Su-25 near Bakhmut

“If before that it was personnel who served professionally, now the average military man is either a “Wagnerite” (member of the Wagner mercenary group) or a covertly mobilized ‘Cossack’ who was previously trained under the system of the so-called combat army reserve,” the expert said.

As of Feb. 3, according to the General Staff, the Armed Forces of Ukraine have eliminated almost 130,000 Russian soldiers, including 840 during the past 24 hours.

Read also: Putin may have overestimated Russian military’s own capabilities to capture Donbas by March — ISW

According to the U.S. newspaper The New York Times, since the beginning of the full-scale invasion of Ukraine, the Russian army has lost up to 200,000 servicemembers, both killed and wounded.

According to Olga Romanova, head of the non-governmental organization Russia Behind Bars, only 10,000 out of the 50,000 Russian prisoners recruited by Kremlin’s Wagner Group to participate in a full-scale war against Ukraine have continued to serve, while the rest were killed, wounded, missing, surrendered, or deserted.

Meanwhile, according to presidential advisor Mykhailo Podolyak, the Wagner mercenaries press-ganged 38,244 prisoners in order to use them in the full-scale war against Ukraine. As of mid-January, 29,543 of them had already been neutralized.
"

by settled by June, what are you saying will be settled? I was just summarizing what I gathered from other posters ITT
 
by settled by June, what are you saying will be settled? I was just summarizing what I gathered from other posters ITT

We will know if Ukraine has the ability to continue their military successes from Kharkiv and Kherson in other regions. My prediction is yes they will. Crimea won't be the first region they get back but it also won't take 20 years. We will have clarity within months. If this war continues, Russian government could simply collapse.
 
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by settled by June, what are you saying will be settled? I was just summarizing what I gathered from other posters ITT

All depends on how much support the West gives and how much political will the citizens of other countries like the US care. Right now, everybody is really supportive of giving aid.

If the West really ramps up the military weapons, Ukraine could completely expel Russia in the East and I can see this happening by the end of the year.

If the West keeps giving piecemeal aid little by little (like how they've been doing) then this can last years. At the beginning of the conflict, the West had very little faith Ukraine could resist and only gave them some anti-tank weapons and artillery. They thought it would only last days and saw no point in giving any significant aid.

But Ukraine really stepped up and over performed. That gave the West some faith that Ukraine could provide resistance, so they started slowly ramping up the aid. They're still not doing all they can to support them.

The US are sending GLSDB missiles to Ukraine soon. These will significantly change the battlefield as it allows precision missile strikes into Crimea and deep in Russian positions. These are coming soon so it will be interesting how it changes the course of the war. Every new technological advantage we have given the Ukrainians so far, they've used super effectively to kick the shit out of the Russians.

 
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We will know if Ukraine has the ability to continue their military successes from Kharkiv and Kherson in other regions. My prediction is yes they will. Crimea won't be the first region they get back but it also won't take 20 years. We will have clarity within months. If this war continues, Russian government could simply collapse.

so you are thinking the Russian government may collapse within a few months? Or at least it will be obvious and will collapse by end of the year?

If not, then what?
 
All depends on how much support the West gives and how much political will the citizens of other countries like the US care. Right now, everybody is really supportive of giving aid.

If the West really ramps up the military weapons, Ukraine could completely expel Russia in the East and I can see this happening by the end of the year.

If the West keeps giving piecemeal aid little by little (like how they've been doing) then this can last years. At the beginning of the conflict, the West had very little faith Ukraine could resist and only gave them some anti-tank weapons and artillery. They thought they would only last days.

But Ukraine really stepped up and over performed. That gave the West some faith that Ukraine could provide resistance, so they started slowly ramping up the aid. They're still not doing all they can to support them.

Well between you with maybe a year and @DEVILsSON predicting collapse of Russia by June, some decent goal posts have been set that I have taken note of. Hope you’re both right and Ukraine is liberated, but obviously I am skeptic.
 
Well between you with maybe a year and @DEVILsSON predicting collapse of Russia by June, some decent goal posts have been set that I have taken note of. Hope you’re both right and Ukraine is liberated, but obviously I am skeptic.

Putin's regime will seriously be destabilized and someone might throw him out of a window if Ukraine starts taking over Crimea. But the West may balk at giving Ukraine enough aid to do that because they might be afraid Putin will resort to nukes. I personally think someone in the regime will kill him if he ever orders nukes.
 
Putin's regime will seriously be destabilized and someone might throw him out of a window if Ukraine starts taking over Crimea.

To be honest, I have been following TPS reports that leaked from a SCIF, Putin will likely die of COVID brain cancer dementia hybrid before the spring offensive
 
Well between you with maybe a year and @DEVILsSON predicting collapse of Russia by June, some decent goal posts have been set that I have taken note of. Hope you’re both right and Ukraine is liberated, but obviously I am skeptic.

You're misrepresenting my points. You claimed it could drag on for 20 years. I said no, it could be more or less clarified by June. I also said Russia 'could' collapse within next couple years not by June.
 
You're misrepresenting my points. You claimed it could drag on for 20 years. I said no, it could be more or less clarified by June. I also said Russia 'could' collapse within next couple years not by June.

So you think by June we will see them start to reclaim the East or at least it will seem very feasible with Russia losing their footing?
 
I think the huge battles will be in March. Very soon.

I still can't believe we're actually having an actual WW2-style war in our lifetimes. Ukraine is basically fighting on behalf of the whole free world with their lives.

And when I think about it, this is the only war in our lifetimes where I actually believe in it and think it's the right thing to do. This is the first clear cut good vs. evil war since the Korean War IMO.
 
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Yes that's what I think. I could be wrong.

no worries being wrong buddy (IF you end up being wrong, big if), I am wrong all the time on here. At least you believe in your point and don’t deflect to some bullshit.

As I said, I hope you’re correct and Russia is fucked right in their Tucker . Cheers
 
I think the huge battles will be in March. Very soon.

I still can't believe we're actually having an actual WW2-style war in our lifetimes. Ukraine is basically fighting on behalf of the whole free world with their lives.

And when I think about it, this is the only war in our lifetimes where I actually believe in it and think it's the right thing to do. This is the first clear cut good vs. evil war since the Korean War IMO and

Valid point that march or around then will be very pivotal based on build up and/or increasing arms in both sides. If so @DEVILsSON could be right about having clarity by June or so.
 
I think it'll continue for 5 years. Well that's how long all the aid promised to Ukraine will take to arrive.

Russia folding far sooner would be great tho
 


So, if the "big push" is coming later?

What about the Russian soldiers that are on the frontlines right now and running low on supplies?

Just, "Go HARD and the Ukrainians will run!"????


I was also wondering how they will supply another 500,000 men or what ever the real number may be. With Russian mentality prob get in a line with first guy have a gun who leads the charge and when he get's taken out next guy grab the gun and forge forward.
 
DraftUkraineCoTFebruary12023.png

Ukraine-Map-Feb2-2023-1.jpg


Ukraine compared to the state of Texas:
FMU23bDXIAAPOV_
 
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