International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V8

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Denter said:
I think regardless of what happens Ukraine will be broke for the foreseeable future. There are few good reasons to think otherwise.

What I was more thinking of is third countries making defense decisions and seeing how US weapons are very effective against the cheap Russian crap their opponents are likely to have.
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For sure.

But I guess more specifically what I was getting at. Ukraine will be in rough shape for quite a while, but these types of debts between nations don't go away in a lifetime. It's a multi generational debt between nation states.

I doubt Russia is going to contribute much to reconstruction either so we'll be there for that too. Will be a lot of work for international construction firms as well as all the people in the region looking for work. Poland, Latvia, etc.

And it's not so much about profit as it is about having longterm interconnected economies.
 
Denter said:
I think regardless of what happens Ukraine will be broke for the foreseeable future. There are few good reasons to think otherwise.

What I was more thinking of is third countries making defense decisions and seeing how US weapons are very effective against the cheap Russian crap their opponents are likely to have.
Click to expand...

I wonder how much of the inferiority is caused by the intelligence provided to Ukraine by the US, UK and France in addition to the motivation of the individual russian soldiers. Down the road we will all know more on what actually happened. It will also be interesting to see whether other countries will continue to buy Russian weapons despite being able to buy american ones. That might be an indication of how well their stuff is actually doing.
 
Cole train said:
Im not 100 percent sure though lol

Its just our capital would be in strike range from tallinn
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You mean with Smerch laucher with 90 km range?
Then Espo, Helsinki..
Thocka U does have officially listed range 120km.
Scud ..300km...improved variants 500km...
Oka? Okey...it is done stuff now but it had 280-400 km range...
Iskander...280-300-500 km.
With cruise missile more...
And with stamp worth eur you will be very happy...
 
hitcher said:
I wonder how much of the inferiority is caused by the intelligence provided to Ukraine by the US, UK and France in addition to the motivation of the individual russian soldiers. Down the road we will all know more on what actually happened. It will also be interesting to see whether other countries will continue to buy Russian weapons despite being able to buy american ones. That might be an indication of how well their stuff is actually doing.
Click to expand...

I suspect that without US intelligence feeding real time targeting information to the Ukrainians they probably would have lost already.

Also, this in no way is to denigrate Russia's equipment, they were fighting an opponent who basically had the same stuff as them and so they probably figured it was sufficient. I'm talking only about the specific western equipment that has been sent over in the past year or so.
 
Denter said:
I suspect that without US intelligence feeding real time targeting information to the Ukrainians they probably would have lost already.

Also, this in no way is to denigrate Russia's equipment, they were fighting an opponent who basically had the same stuff as them and so they probably figured it was sufficient. I'm talking only about the specific western equipment that has been sent over in the past year or so.
Click to expand...

I am not knowledgable at all about Russian or American equipment quality, although just based on the amount of money the US spends on the military I strongly reckon it must be better. The question is how much better is it and is it worth the price?

@GhostZ06 is probably the most knowledgable in this thread when it comes to military equipment weapons. Do you reckon Russia has any equipment or weapons that are as good or even better than US ones?
 
method115 said:
Meme makes no sense. If you can't afford food go apply for food stamps that's what they are for. They will give it to you that day if you tell them it's an emergency. Basically we already give people money for food all over this country. Mitt Romney was part of the program, Joe Rogan. It's helped millions of Americans.
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Yes because meme is all about facts and truth not sarcasm or anything …..
 
Rational Poster said:
So at the current rate we'll reach your hyperbole in 50 years.
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Wait till the winter comes then the war will drastically pick up sense the roads will be easier to travel. This is going to be a long way but we owe Ukraine since what we did in the 90’s..
 
Denter said:
I suspect that without US intelligence feeding real time targeting information to the Ukrainians they probably would have lost already.

Also, this in no way is to denigrate Russia's equipment, they were fighting an opponent who basically had the same stuff as them and so they probably figured it was sufficient. I'm talking only about the specific western equipment that has been sent over in the past year or so.
Click to expand...

No.
According ukrinform etc sites U.S had refused to sell them even stingers in nov 2021 th...
So no case here...
Even the same Pantsirj widely awailable in Russia is on paper better than anything Ukraine had....
A. It does have not 3 missiles....like Osa...but 12...
B. With longer range and ceiling and higher speed...
C. 12 missiles vs 3 on 1 machine...
It is damn huge difference..
Even if to compare vs Tor produced before 2014-2016 it does looks different level...
Autocannons?
Better than Shilka 4X23mm machine and new...
Longer range and higher ceiling...
All this on one machine....
+ on paper Tunguska is a toy if compare with this Pantsirj.......
___
Plus reality that the same Grad, Uragan and OSA, Tunguska and Tor + Pantsirj too is Russia's design and product....
They had continued to produce ammo and new launchers and new missiles plus old design missiles while ukr had stamps, roubles x and y and karbovanets and privatisation vouchers and so on...even worse than in Russia 1992-2000 th....
Damn
....
Even old S-300...Russia had higher number of old stuff and also new stuff....
After 1992 th...
Plus S-350 and S-400...
 
ShadowRun said:
Wait till the winter comes then the war will drastically pick up sense the roads will be easier to travel. This is going to be a long way but we owe Ukraine since what we did in the 90’s..
Click to expand...

So you think it's going to cost us 100x more?
 
Rational Poster said:
So at the current rate we'll reach your hyperbole in 50 years.
Click to expand...

How fast can it possibly go?

Faxj2waWIAEufXA
 
Not surprising given the guy had his daughter killed to help his friend Vlady. This whole thing is a false flag and the Ukrainians know it.


"Ukrainian officials have ridiculed Russia's accusation that its special services were behind the killing of Darya Dugina, the daughter of an ultra-nationalist, in a car-bomb attack.

"We don't work in this way," said National Security and Defence Council secretary Oleksiy Danilov.

A memorial service for Ms Dugina, 29, took place in Moscow on Tuesday.

Ms Dugina, a commentator on a Russian nationalist TV channel, died when her car blew up on the outskirts of Moscow.

Her influential father, Alexander Dugin, may have been the intended target of the attack. His expansionist ideas of a New Russia or "Novorossiya" on Ukrainian territory are said to have influenced President Vladimir Putin's annexation of Crimea in 2014.

President Putin condemned the "vile, cruel crime" and posthumously awarded Ms Dugina the Order of Courage."

Repeat after me FSB.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62643274
 
Rational Poster said:
For sure.

But I guess more specifically what I was getting at. Ukraine will be in rough shape for quite a while, but these types of debts between nations don't go away in a lifetime. It's a multi generational debt between nation states.

I doubt Russia is going to contribute much to reconstruction either so we'll be there for that too. Will be a lot of work for international construction firms as well as all the people in the region looking for work. Poland, Latvia, etc.

And it's not so much about profit as it is about having longterm interconnected economies.
Click to expand...
You are a bit delusional here.
If Russia will invade Latvia...you will use euro paper note in toilet, will be cheaper than to buy toilet paper....
Poland is >3,5 X larger economy than Ukraine and unlike Ukraine ....it is really huge food exporter for west and isn't so unimportant mice like Ukraine regards to westerners properties and investments + banking sector and other stuff...

U will suffer quickly damn more than from Ukr stuff...doesn't matter where you are located...
Baltic countries are eurozone countries and if you are interested...better prepare scotch and euro notes in order to use in toilet....as replacement for toilet paper IF Russia will invade them....

U even know who owns insurance and banking sector in these countries...
Businesses...
Mortgage....
Issued loans?

Reconstruction of food stamp called euro and western euro hope to milk someone....
Yeah....
 
Well.
The same Estonia...
Banking sector almost 100% western owned....
Morgage loans invested...more than 3/4 western funds money...
Long term investments too.
Considerably high % of mortgage by value owned by westerners...incl land property...

Latvia.
Pawnshop bussiness mainly owned in real by jews and russians... Jews btw are historical thing cos looks that latvians didn't had interest in this field .......
More than 85% from banking business owned by westerners...
More than 70% in telecommunication companies shares...
More than 3/4 mortgage loans are westerners financed...
Significant % of mortgage and land property owned by westerners....
More than 50% businesses by $ worth are western owned...SOLD...!
 
SandisLL said:
No.
According ukrinform etc sites U.S had refused to sell them even stingers in nov 2021 th...
So no case here...
Even the same Pantsirj widely awailable in Russia is on paper better than anything Ukraine had....
A. It does have not 3 missiles....like Osa...but 12...
B. With longer range and ceiling and higher speed...
C. 12 missiles vs 3 on 1 machine...
It is damn huge difference..
Even if to compare vs Tor produced before 2014-2016 it does looks different level...
Autocannons?
Better than Shilka 4X23mm machine and new...
Longer range and higher ceiling...
All this on one machine....
+ on paper Tunguska is a toy if compare with this Pantsirj.......
___
Plus reality that the same Grad, Uragan and OSA, Tunguska and Tor + Pantsirj too is Russia's design and product....
They had continued to produce ammo and new launchers and new missiles plus old design missiles while ukr had stamps, roubles x and y and karbovanets and privatisation vouchers and so on...even worse than in Russia 1992-2000 th....
Damn
....
Even old S-300...Russia had higher number of old stuff and also new stuff....
After 1992 th...
Plus S-350 and S-400...
Click to expand...

So what you are saying was that Ukranian stuff was even older, Soviet stuff with no upgrades or modernization?
 
Denter said:
So what you are saying was that Ukranian stuff was even older, Soviet stuff with no upgrades or modernization?
Click to expand...

From what i understand their equipment at start of war was still fairly soviet but what they changed during modernization that they went through was that training was upped to "nato standard" no more soviet era stuff

Like combat med vid here is straight up same as what i was taught back in day. (Guy in vid runs everything by the book )



But this is just my 2 cents, might be completely wrong
 
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Denter said:
So what you are saying was that Ukranian stuff was even older, Soviet stuff with no upgrades or modernization?
Click to expand...
Most likely they had attempted to do upgrades.
While looks that financially they had since 1992 th suffered more than Russia...
Plus for a lot of stuff in USSR times main R&D was in Russia...
Like Uragan, Grad, SAMS....
While Ukr had something in different niches like for missiles for cosmos or like this....and something else..

Yeah...majority of ukr stuff was pre 1992 th era...
 
This is good news if true, unless you are Pro-Russian that is. It is a Ukrainian news source so make of it what you will. Kherson the first major Ukrainian city to fall to the Russian's looks about to be back under Ukrainian control very soon. A real symbolic turning point if it's true.

Most of the Russian military commanders have fled from the city of Kherson.
Source: Yurii Sobolevskyi, Deputy Head of Kherson Oblast Council, on air during the 24/7 national joint newscast, quoted by BBC Ukraine
Quote: "I can confirm this. It’s true, as of today, the orcs [Russians - ed.] don’t have a single supply route that would be safe and could specifically satisfy the need to supply the concentration of their troops deployed near Kherson."
Details: Sobolevskyi confirmed that the Ukrainian Armed Forces are controlling all the main roads in the area.
"This might have become the reason for the retreat of the military command from Kherson. The majority of them have already left Kherson and yes, we have reports that this has happened," Sobolevskyi noted.
He added that the Antonivka road bridge can no longer be crossed even on foot.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/08/15/7363249/
 
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