Russia/Ukraine Megathread V5

[Deleted member 555403]

Great. I'm asking from a policy standpoint what that currently means to you. Not lamenting what's led up to it either. Here and now, how is this "neutrality" that you desire achieved? How much trust is there either way? Putin evidently feels the west "promised" him that NATO wouldn't expand. The west sees a despot that promised just this past December that he was not going to invade the Ukraine, thed did exactly that. So...these sides are gonna believe each other now?

that's the problem with treating the other nuclear superpower ran by an autocratic leader like they're Iraq or Libya. Kind of hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube. de-escalation, concessions, and appeasement is the path forward if you actually give a shit about human suffering, how is this complicated? Who gives a shit about trust, this is geopolitics, not a girl you're dating - if Putin breaks the agreement what exactly would we have lost?

 

[Ayin]

I disagree that Ukraine's border problems are more important then US border problems. Honestly, your position sounds like someone who doesn't even live in the United States would take.

Where are you from?

I absolutely do not live in the United States.

If you click on any members profile, it will have information listed. Doing so for mine shows that I live in Canada. Some posters don’t have this filled out, more so now than back when this forum was better, but a good number still do.

Now, rationally, the US is on no way facing an existential national crisis because of the current condition at it border. Ukraine is. Your position may be one of US isolationism, which is fine, but that’s a different one than that of attempting to draw a comparison of relative levels of concern between the two events.

 

[SandisLL]

I'm sick of this America bashing until you need us bullshit, as I'm the American taxpayer paying for it. Fix your own problems. We have plenty of our own.

I don't bash US and sorry, you maybe had not read properly or just are too cocky my friend.
With the same France is enough to turn Moscow in hole and St Pete too.

Ukraine is NATOs problem.

What?
Refugees are problem for xx international institutions worldwide.

No one here cares about empty posts and bullshit in internet.
Refugees are arriving each hour more and more.

BTW.,Mexico too does have some, US sooner or later will get at least some.

WTF to talk about nato or portray Biden or NATO guilty cos some old KGB dudes get a bit mad?

 

[Ayin]

that's the problem with treating the other nuclear superpower ran by an autocratic leader like they're Iraq or Libya. Kind of hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube. de-escalation, concessions, and appeasement is the path forward if you actually give a shit about human suffering, how is this complicated? Who gives a shit about trust, this is geopolitics, not a girl you're dating - if Putin breaks the agreement what exactly would we have lost?

When do you think which party should have attempted “de-escalation”, and in what way?

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Oh I didn't think the Ukrainians were going to "win" anyway. But I do think Putin thought this would be much easier. That (whatever he's sent in) they'd face a bit of resistance from the die hard patriots but that the rest of the populace would mostly roll over.

The war isn't Putin's issue. He can "win" this war easily, and how quickly depends really on how "scorched earth" he's willing to go. But toppling Kyiv is the least of his problems. In a world of live feeds from cell phones, everyone is seeing what's happening. The shelling of civilians, etc. Putin is now a pariah in a way I really didn't think was possible. And the fact that he's so insulated at home makes him unable to see just how much most of the world hates him right now.

There are a lot of questions. NATO doesn't want to get involved directly, and I agree with that. But if the Russians continue this path and the humanitarian crises continues to grow, pressure will mount. Putin does not want war with NATO, he will get smashed. And badly. NATO doesn't want war with him because they worry he will launch a nuke if on the ropes getting pummeled.

There are still way too many moving parts to know what will happen (including the economic angles).

Maybe NATO gets involved if the Russians use chemical or biological weapons but even then I'm sure only to defend Ukrainian territory. Putin would have to be a madman to launch nukes if Russia itself isn't under attack but obviously it's a risk nobody is eager to take.

 

[SandisLL]

Handle your business lmao.

You handle your own business, like your trump and putin, kid, i do not need nor your adivce nor to see your posts.

You feel so big while you are nothing better than joe average in China or Russia.

 

[aries]

From Putin so only as credible as Bunker Boy

Ha ha and monologuing to his favourite puppet. Interesting to note he doesn't need a big table between him and Lukashenko.

 

[mkess101]

that's the problem with treating the other nuclear superpower ran by an autocratic leader like they're Iraq or Libya. Kind of hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube. de-escalation, concessions, and appeasement is the path forward if you actually give a shit about human suffering, how is this complicated? Who gives a shit about trust, this is geopolitics, not a girl you're dating - if Putin breaks the agreement what exactly would we have lost?

How much de-escalation and appeasement? How much of the continent does he get to annex in your eyes before a line is drawn? Anything not currently under the NATO umbrella?

 

[curryjunkie]

There have been hit squads sent to kill Zelensky several times by the Russians but apparently FSB insiders gave them a heads up and they thwarted them. When it came out first it was just 3 attempts but this article claims it's dozens.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...assination-attempts-close-adviser-claims.html

it's the daily fail, could be bullshit mate

 

[USA!USA!]

all we need from the US is one plane flight with blinken and a few other stooges with pens to cosign a new Minsk deal

the entire manufacturing of consent that is happening is steering us in the opposite direction. i.e. if you appease Putin, he'll invade Europe, we have to beef up NATO, Russia must be punished, Ukraine should fight to the death! American state department and its corporate media arm have got average Americans so bricked up that they can't even imagine trading some territory in Ukraine that they never heard about until a few weeks ago to end this shit

Russia shouldn't be punished for invading a neighboring sovereign state?

Hello?

 

[Deleted member 555403]

Russia shouldn't be punished for invading a neighboring sovereign state?

Hello?

they should be equally harshly punished as the last nuclear superpower who committed an illegal invasion on a sovereign country

 

[Deleted member 555403]

How much de-escalation and appeasement? How much of the continent does he get to annex in your eyes before a line is drawn? Anything not currently under the NATO umbrella?

ask putin. He might have some conditions and lines, some of them might be red

 

[USA!USA!]

they should be equally harshly punished as the last nuclear superpower who committed an illegal invasion on a sovereign country

You can play the pointing fingers or "but what about" game all you want, or you can grow up. Up to you, bud.

 

[Deleted member 555403]

You can play the pointing fingers or "but what about" game all you want, or you can grow up. Up to you, bud.

yeah so grown up to sacrifice Ukrainian lives from your computer on a karate forum

 

[aries]

that's the problem with treating the other nuclear superpower ran by an autocratic leader like they're Iraq or Libya. Kind of hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube. de-escalation, concessions, and appeasement is the path forward if you actually give a shit about human suffering, how is this complicated? Who gives a shit about trust, this is geopolitics, not a girl you're dating - if Putin breaks the agreement what exactly would we have lost?

The problem is the West and most definitely Europe have been making concessions for Putin for many years. Now it appears it's been a foreign policy disaster because it's emboldened him to do things like this. Western Europe has now realised it's really fucked itself with reliance on Russian energy and cutting back on it's military investment. Putin is a bully and you can go two ways with dealing with him, give into his demands which we've been doing and then he just see it's as weakness and looks to take more and more or stand up to him. It's clear that the sanctions response have rattled his cage and now he's looking for a way out.

 

[USA!USA!]

yeah so grown up to sacrifice Ukrainian lives from your computer on a karate forum

How am I, a bozo on a forum, sacrificing Ukrainian lives? LOL

 

[Letssnuggle]

You handle your own business, like your trump and putin, kid, i do not need nor your adivce nor to see your posts.

You feel so big while you are nothing better than joe average in China or Russia.

....until you want some more of my money. I hope you see the other side of this coin.

 

[Harmonica]

Again, I'd urge you to read Maxim Mironov's thoughts on this. He's far more knowledgeable than you or I on this topic.

If this is what you were referring to, I just read it, and must say I am very disappointed. He basically spewed a whole lot of bombastic doomsday statements, only to finish the article with: "I mean, of course eventually farmers and institutes will come up with something." In other words, they will face hardships, but nothing they haven't experienced already... just as I originally stated.

 

[aries]

it's the daily fail, could be bullshit mate

Yeah. I only use them when I need to but plenty of other outlets are carrying it.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...y-assassination-attempts-russia-b2032759.html

 

[mkess101]

ask putin. He might have some conditions and lines, some of them might be red

Ask him like they asked him in December why he was amassing troops on the border and he said "just defensive exercises, not gonna invade stop worrying"?

Ask him like when he said he wasn't gonna topple the governments in Chechnya or Georgia and install puppet states? Or that he had no plans to take Crimea?

Yeah...let's just ask him!