International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V15

[TheMoa]

Kalmykia.

I made a video about my DNA results lol:



Most ethnic Russians and people of Russia who live in the West are in their 20s/30s tend to be fiercely anti-Putin and pro-West (or just apolitical).

Most ethnic Russians and people of Russia who live in Russia tend to be pro-Putin.

I don't think the average person has the capacity or honesty to authentically try to view these kind of issues from different sides (I don't pretend to either).

Yes.. and that's hard to deal with. I think being from the "3rd world west" and being aligned with most of its perspective for a long time then studying a bunch about eastern culture later gave me a unique perspective in this kind of shit, I know there are no good guys in on either side. One side eating propaganda while laughing at the other for being propagandists. When people reduce things to capitalism/communism I almost want start to cry.
But I also know that I have my own biases for feeling like being duped (I would call them anti neocolonialism biases) and that there's also people who are from the other side who doesnt like it for a fair reason.

BTW, I have family who moved from Brazil to USA and they have this hatred for Brazil that would be funny if it wasnt so sad.

 

[Strychnine]

okay... why does everything have to be an argument instead of a discussion?

Because you joined the site last year and 98% of participants in this thread have been following the war since day one. You're not some "truth-teller", you're just another poster with your own opinions.

You're welcome to stay and debate your position (you ARE in the War Room BTW), but don't come in here trying to slyly insult anyone and not expect to be called out on it. Everyone in here has a position of either pro or anti Ukraine. There is no "middle ground."

Welcome to the War Room.

 

[TheMoa]

It means he's an imperialist fueling a bottomless need to take

Who do you think its the most imperialistic entity in the world?

 

[ChessJitsu]

Yes.. and that's hard to deal with. I think being from the "3rd world west" and being aligned with most of its perspective for a long time then studying a bunch about eastern culture later gave me a unique perspective in this kind of shit, I know there are no good guys in on either side. One side eating propaganda while laughing at the other for being propagandists. When people reduce things to capitalism/communism I almost want start to cry.
But I also know that I have my own biases for feeling like being duped (I would call them anti neocolonialism biases) and that there's also people who are from the other side who doesnt like it for a fair reason.

BTW, I have family who moved from Brazil to USA and they have this hatred for Brazil that would be funny if it wasnt so sad.

Yeah my Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu coach is friends with Bolsonaro and most Brazilians I meet (I live close to Newark, the capital of Brazilian USA) hate Lula.

I think one reason Latin America is so fascinating in the dynamics between West vs BRICs is that die-hard Western-centric Brussels type of people paint a rosy picture of what being guided by America means and how anything outside is that is evil but they don't bring attention to the poverty and corruption of Latin America which has been under Washington's thumbs for centuries now.

They want you to believe that being under Washington's umbrella means wealth and democracy when that's strictly the experience of Western Europe which is the parasite of the 21st century.

It's like the topic of France's continuing colonial operations in Africa is too esoteric for this board because it breaks their image of "we good they bad".

The British are like the worst when it comes to this stuff. They just love the smell of their own farts and nothing can break their addiction to it.

 

[Ruthless Ryan]

I try to follow pretty much everything (without agreeing with the narrative of each).

With those fantasy channels that you posted though, if you follow their content every week you'll be surprised that the war situation is as it is right now. You'd think that Kiev would be in Moscow by now. That's how silly they are.

Those channels have nothing to gain by lying, they are pro UKR but dont give BS info as if UKR is in Moscow.

 

[ChessJitsu]

Because you joined the site last year and 98% of participants in this thread have been following the war since day one.

I'm literally Russian-American and have family on both sides. Don't tell me I haven't been obsessed and heartbroken over this since the annexation of Crimea. Stop putting people in boxes and forcing things to be narrow-scoped so that it suits your own agendas.

 

[Strychnine]

I'm literally Russian-American and have family on both sides. Don't tell me I haven't been obsessed and heartbroken over this since the annexation of Crimea. Stop putting people in boxes and forcing things to be narrow-scoped so that it suits your own agendas.

I'm talking about thoughts and opinions here... On Sherdog, not your life.

 

[ChessJitsu]

Those channels have nothing to gain by lying, they are pro UKR but dont give BS info as if UKR is in Moscow.

Morale is a factor in war and if you meet a lot of Ukrainians, you can gain the impression that they're collectively interested in their country's victory in this conflict (which of course is what we would be like in their position).

There are incentives in boosting morale on the Ukraine side, to constantly reaffirm the idea the victory is possible; both for army morale and Western interest in continuing to support Ukraine.

Also, a lot of media agendas on both sides get direct or indirect funding from actual state entities.

So yes, they have things to gain by presenting things in a particular frame (ideologically-driven incentives, not personal greed).

 

[Rod1]

Yeah my Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu coach is friends with Bolsonaro and most Brazilians I meet (I live close to Newark, the capital of Brazilian USA) hate Lula.

Brazilian presidents tend to enjoy low levels of support since the commodity crash of 2014.

I think one reason Latin America is so fascinating in the dynamics between West vs BRICs is that die-hard Western-centric Brussels type of people paint a rosy picture of what being guided by America means and how anything outside is that is evil but they don't bring attention to the poverty and corruption of Latin America which has been under Washington's thumbs for centuries now.

Lets compare the Latin America that is under "guided by America" (i guess you presume that its not a brutal dictatorship) and the one that isn't.

Say what you want about Brazil, Mexico or Argentina, they are still miles ahead in terms of development than Cuba or Venezuela

 

[Rod1]

What does "survival" mean in this context?

If the war were to end soon, with Russia fully annexing the oblasts it legally recognizes as its own, would that count as survival?

When Ukraine enters NATO that would be survival because above everything Russian leadership is spineless and would never dare to face NATO in an open confrontation

 

[Cid]

When is Rus economy not having trouble on the ground level?

It's stable and intact by Russian standards- which is sufficient in the context of its geopolitical conflict with the West.

Russian economy has been on fire this month!

 

[ChessJitsu]

Lets compare the Latin America that is under "guided by America" (i guess you presume that its not a brutal dictatorship) and the one that isn't.

Say what you want about Brazil, Mexico or Argentina, they are still miles ahead in terms of development than Cuba or Venezuela

There's actually more complex developmental models on this topic and you'll be surprised by what you see.

Secondly, do you think that its fair that America sanctions certain countries to the point of children famishment under the pretext of being against non-democratic governments while having gigantic trade with theocracies and other dictatorships?

When you start to consider this, do you think that the divisions of the world are truly ideological disagreements or do you start to consider other motives and agendas at work?

 

[Limbo Pete]

...right, but say Ukraine is still a country when this ends but only maintains half of its territory. Are you saying this counts as a victory?

I think, in Putin's ideal world, yes., Ukraine would be annexed by Russia at this point., but it's clear that's unrealistic at this point and he also recognizes that. That's my opinion.

If you're in a life or death situation, and you make it out missing an arm, you're still glad to be alive.

 

[ChessJitsu]

When Ukraine enters NATO that would be survival because above everything Russian leadership is spineless and would never dare to face NATO in an open confrontation

@Limbo Pete doesn't have good news for you.

 

[Limbo Pete]

Who do you think its the most imperialistic entity in the world?

Is this the part where you equivocate US and Russian geopolitical horror in an attempt to bothesides it? Because our own long, sordid history of meddling and "nation building" is an excellent thing to keep in mind: we should be thrilled to be on the right side of a conflict for a change.

 

[Cid]

 

[ChessJitsu]

Because our own long, sordid history of meddling and "nation building" is an excellent thing to keep in mind: we should be thrilled to be on the right side of a conflict for a change.

this isn't the only conflict in the world right now. Do you think the West is on the right side of every side it's taking today?

If so- doesn't it make it more likely that you're biased?

If not, if your states are on the right side of a conflict in one area, and on the wrong right conflict of another area, doesn't that mean it's not taking those particular sides because of ideological/humanistic angles but rather it finds itself in those boxes because of self-interested policies?

 

[TheMoa]

Those channels have nothing to gain by lying, they are pro UKR but dont give BS info as if UKR is in Moscow.

That's not true brother, those influencer channels are like team sports cheering. The guy was hit on the jumpshot, was it a foul or was it a legal contact? Who's cheering for the shooter will see foul, the other will see legal play. It's the same thing with influencer Rep/Dem channels inside USA politics. Who's MAGA will post that the BBB was the better bill in the world, who's "TDS" will post that it'll break the country.

The war game is the same. Like I said before, I wasnt keeping up.. from afar or from the posts here the impression is that there are no russians left and that Russia's economy will collapse tomorrow. From Marino it would look like Ukraine will hang Zelensky and capitulate tomorrow.
I can see how the different BS goes keeping up with both DeepStatemaps (Ukranian) and suriyakmaps (ruskie). And I have no idea what's really happening.
And I'm not pro Russia, I see Russia as the agressor and believe in the right of the Ukranians to defend themselves. If I was from Ukraine I would be hating Russia for generations. But I also see why Russia attacked, it's not so simple as "he's a psycho".
btw, being an outsider I cringe for everyone who cheers for either those Azov or the former Wagner folks

 

[ChessJitsu]

Is this the part where you equivocate US and Russian geopolitical horror in an attempt to bothesides it?

so anytime someone brings up these kind of things, I think it's unfair of you to just immediately call it "bothsiding" or whatever dismissive tactic you're using.

They all tie into Ukraine/Russia specifically.

This is where the discussions of "root causes" comes in.

The pro-Russia perspective often comes in the form of presenting the West as an imperialistic agglomeration attempting to extend its hegemony and Russia's aggressive decisions as a reaction to suffocating pressure.

Anytime you use the "stop bothsiding this" arguing devices, it can seem like you're disingenuously trying to box in particular issues to present things only as you want them to be considered.

 

[Limbo Pete]

this isn't the only conflict in the world right now. Do you think the West is on the right side of every side it's taking today?

Why would you think that I.... think that? Where does that question even come from?
There's this continually sort of narrative/framing/whatever which comes up again and again here. People, not just the San Marino types but also more polished and less vitriolic bothesiders, act like the US doesn't have a "right" or is being "hypocritical" in helping Ukraine stand up for itself. A sort of "you don't get to be the good guys" rhetoric. We invaded Iraq, so we shouldn't help Ukraine, etc. The whole shtick is childish imo, and revealing of those that care more about carving a "neutral" position where they can safely lecture everybody. Meanwhile, back in the really real world, helping Ukraine is the right thing to do. They need our help badly and we should be giving it way more effort.