International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V15

[SandisLL]

Thanks for the response, so basically draw a line in the sand that both sides walk away with what they got with Ukraine actually gaining a trade deal. That sounds reasonable, but I think that would be seen by Russia as conceding failure which I have a hard time believing Vladimir Putin will accept.

Russia is the much stronger force, already controls those territories so I gotta think Putin is going to need a much greater claim to victory to explain to his country why he is pulling out of the war.

Lavrov clearly defined that Kherson, Zaprozia, Donetsk and Luhansk oblastjs are Russian Federation and they are liberating these from occupation.
Also ofc all these other demands from Ukr in long row.
Literally approx the same stuff he had told in India. Ofc there are putistan times etc trash in mass media for plebs but India's officials were surprised......

 

[Cartiac]

If the US offers to lift sanctions and normalize economic relations as part of the deal (which seems to be the aim), I’d think they can sell it as a win.

Yea, I could definitely see that being a major part of Putin's ask, pretty tough to swing from a US political perspective, but probably workable especially if presented jointly with leaders like Starmer and Macron that seem to be game.

 

[San Marino]

Ok.
Now tell me how he's wrong.

Well,
1. He is a 'jarhead.'
2. He is a military guy and should not be involved in politics. His mission is to win wars, not have an opinion on it.
You should know that. He should have kept his political opinion to himself and let the civilian Chain-of-Command decide.
3. Putin does not want all of Ukraine.
4. Ukraine is not getting what it has lost to Russia.
5. Ukraine will never join NATO.
6. Ukraine and the West set the stage for this conflict to begin in 2022. Uncle Joe himself gave the green light to Putin for a 'small incursion' into Ukraine. How small? Only Uncle Joe knows.
7. Zelensky has his own agenda about how to prolong this conflict when the Ukrainian people, and the military, are tired of this war.
8. Did a 4-star Active-Duty Marine Corps General get permission to go on a show (television) and give his personal opinion about foreign affairs? I think he just bypassed his Chain-of-Command. In my day, 4-star Active-Duty Generals kept their political opinion to themselves.

 

[San Marino]

The US siding with Russia over Ukraine and its European allies is sickening.

The US is not siding with Russia. It is trying to end the Ukraine/Russian conflict.

 

[San Marino]

Anyone got thoughts on if/how this thing ends? With other conflicts/wars I could think of reasonable, at least to me, outcomes, but this one is tough.

It will become a frozen conflict in a few months. Not the ideal ending, but definitely to Russia's favor. Kind of like what has happened to the Korean conflict. Both North and South Korea continue at a cease fire since 1953.

 

[curryjunkie]

Plankety plank..

 

[Boxiana]

Yea, I could definitely see that being a major part of Putin's ask, pretty tough to swing from a US political perspective, but probably workable especially if presented jointly with leaders like Starmer and Macron that seem to be game.

Starmer and Macron are irrelevant as current events show (though they try hard to make themselves look relevant). This is between the US and Russia.

 

[pseto223]

The US is not siding with Russia. It is trying to end the Ukraine/Russian conflict.

The US is absolutely siding with Russia right now, because 1) they gimped Ukraine's ability to defend itself by Russia when stopped sharing intelligence data and 2) Trump is shitting on Zelensky daily for "not wanting peace", while at the same time Putin gets a pass for daily terrorist attacks on civilians. Just today 17+ people were killed after attack on civilian buildings and will Trump mention that? No. Unless he writes that "Ukraine is getting its ass kicked and needs to capitulate" or something.

Trump looks like a Putin cuck and unless he does something meaningful to hurt Russia the way he hurt Ukraine, the suspicions that he is a Russian asset will only increase.

 

[Cartiac]

It will become a frozen conflict in a few months. Not the ideal ending, but definitely to Russia's favor. Kind of like what has happened to the Korean conflict. Both North and South Korea continue at a cease fire since 1953.

I don't know how much I can compare this to the Korean War that I believe was much more serious, certainly from a US perspective. That war ended with an official multinational peace treaty being signed that the US sought out and essentially conceded defeat which the USSR and China happily accepted since the world was not far removed from Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Russia has no reason to concede anything, they aren't seeking an end especially since they have North Koreans taking the bullets now and no one else is actually fighting on the side of Ukraine. I think for anything to happen Ukraine has to seek out a peace agreement, conceding defeat to Russia. Which given recent attempts at negotiation I don't see happening due to Ukraine leadership clearly being driven by narcissism and corruption with zero concern for the people.

 

[Cid]

Starmer and Macron are irrelevant as current events show (though they try hard to make themselves look relevant). This is between the US and Russia.

If the US offers to lift sanctions and normalize economic relations as part of the deal (which seems to be the aim), I’d think they can sell it as a win.

I feel like you're factually wrong... yet somehow right at the same time.


Euro is a much bigger player than Russia. Starmer and Macron are both bigger players than Putin on the world stage. Putin despite all the bravado isn't a big player. There's not even 30 million people in my country and we're going to pass Russian GDP in a decade or so.

Germany is the 3rd largest economy on earth, UK 6, France 7.

Big trade partners.

Russia isn't. American sanctions did little because there was almost no trade to sanction between the countries. What Russia offers (hydrocarbons) America has in abundance. There's some trade but it's very small.


Cost of living came from the global economies reaction to the war. Not American sanctions. There was hardly anything to sanction.

So America will point at something that isn't causing their problems (sanctions) and say they're going to fix it. Meanwhile they'll shit all over what is causing their problems (the state of the global economy) and make things worse.


Will sell it as a win to the masses who are stupid enough to eat it up just like you said though.

 

[Cid]

I think for anything to happen Ukraine has to seek out a peace agreement, conceding defeat to Russia. Which given recent attempts at negotiation I don't see happening due to Ukraine leadership clearly being driven by narcissism and corruption with zero concern for the people.

Only Trump cares for Ukrainians.

 

[Cartiac]

Starmer and Macron are irrelevant as current events show (though they try hard to make themselves look relevant). This is between the US and Russia.

I agree, but as I said I'm grasping at straws to find any reasonable end to this war.

Is this really between the US and Russia? I think whatever truth there was to that ended 3 months ago. President Trump made it very clear during his first term he has no interest in involving the US in war and is definitely no fan of sending billions and billions of US taxpayer dollars to the known extreme corruption of Ukraine.

 

[aerius]

Time to kiss the Kursk pocket goodbye.

 

[pugilistico]

What is the benefit of continuing this war in Ukraine with all the death and destruction? Wouldn't you want the war to end. Trump is literally trying to make peace everywhere and people are upset.

There is no benefit. Russia should have not invaded in the first place. Putin can easily end this war by pulling his troops out. Trump is clearly siding with Russia in his "peace deal." Even if Trump actually wants peace, he's not doing a great job of it. Saying "stop fighting!" while handicapping one guy and letting the other guy take shots isn't exactly peace, unless you secretly want the other guy to win.

In other news, North Koreans apparently were used as a spearhead to push into Ukrainian ground in Kursk and gain some ground.

Ukrainian forces pushed into the eastern front and captured Russian POWs. It seems like one step forward and one step back for both sides.

 

[SandisLL]

I don't know how much I can compare this to the Korean War that I believe was much more serious, certainly from a US perspective. That war ended with an official multinational peace treaty being signed that the US sought out and essentially conceded defeat which the USSR and China happily accepted since the world was not far removed from Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Russia has no reason to concede anything, they aren't seeking an end especially since they have North Koreans taking the bullets now and no one else is actually fighting on the side of Ukraine. I think for anything to happen Ukraine has to seek out a peace agreement, conceding defeat to Russia. Which given recent attempts at negotiation I don't see happening due to Ukraine leadership clearly being driven by narcissism and corruption with zero concern for the people.

Maybe yes, for world better is to accept that U.S isn't nor trustable weapons seller nor world hegemony anymore. This is real life and they are loosers now..


Korea they at least managed to install more than 1 500 000 mines before ceasefire first paper.
Vietnam they had throwed under bus as nice talking traitors. Kissinger correctly had expalined this stuff.

I think yanks should get that no one with a bit of brains trust them or paper signed by them. Not alone that they are as usually...


Large countries with nukes are determining spheres of influence, then are signing nice toilet paper worth papers, selling not important and heavily overpriced weapons and milking countries in their sphere of influence while talking nice talks.

When shit is hot, negotiate with big uncles and these villages for them appears just toys.

Besides this these countries does wants to milk another countries dry in order to milk their taxpayers money on not important weapons they are selling.
It is business and nothing personal.
I think kurds and vietnamesse plus these who had supported U.S in afganistan easily might tell how trustable are yanks...

Yanks even had been only 1 country had used article 5. Plebs had helped them, unfortunately....20 years of taxpayers money waste..... outcome: cocky Vance lecturing europe etc.

Why not.

Actually why they ( besides these plancton consuming mass media and idiots content ) might not negotiate to create Empire ...real one...from Lisbon till not just Vladivostok, till all China too.

Large Superempire. Large and there are nice countries: India, Gulf countries and Iran too.

Why not.

Yanks are done...

 

[curryjunkie]

I don't know how much I can compare this to the Korean War that I believe was much more serious, certainly from a US perspective. That war ended with an official multinational peace treaty being signed that the US sought out and essentially conceded defeat which the USSR and China happily accepted since the world was not far removed from Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Russia has no reason to concede anything, they aren't seeking an end especially since they have North Koreans taking the bullets now and no one else is actually fighting on the side of Ukraine. I think for anything to happen Ukraine has to seek out a peace agreement, conceding defeat to Russia. Which given recent attempts at negotiation I don't see happening due to Ukraine leadership clearly being driven by narcissism and corruption with zero concern for the people.

 

[SandisLL]

I agree, but as I said I'm grasping at straws to find any reasonable end to this war.

Is this really between the US and Russia? I think whatever truth there was to that ended 3 months ago. President Trump made it very clear during his first term he has no interest in involving the US in war and is definitely no fan of sending billions and billions of US taxpayer dollars to the known extreme corruption of Ukraine.

At first U.S had overrated real value of toys, mainly old they had sent. Even Pentagon had twice corrected evaluation etc...
And trump is lying 24/7/365.

..

However I always had posted that they does needs weapons and ammo....not money.

About money they unfortunately are sitting mainly on Europe's necks and getting enough. Maybe even more than enough.
Additionally they had filled Europe with more than 6 000 000 refugees and these too does cost damn alot.

Besides this they are lecturing Europe that they will need more than 527 b € for reconstruction etc....

I never had posted that we need to send them money....

 

[SandisLL]

If about the same 31 Abrams tank, they were export version M1A1SA allowed to sell for Morocco, Egypt etc. Looks that since 2004 th didn't had found customers....

My taxpayer's money. I agree. Better they had not sent this stuff...

I don't think that they are very bad but real life is that they weren't NATO tanks and they are maybe a bit too heavy for Dumbass mud.

From these 31 tank today Ukr most likely does have 12 in working condition.
Maybe this is reality, maybe no.

 

[Boxiana]

I agree, but as I said I'm grasping at straws to find any reasonable end to this war.

Is this really between the US and Russia? I think whatever truth there was to that ended 3 months ago. President Trump made it very clear during his first term he has no interest in involving the US in war and is definitely no fan of sending billions and billions of US taxpayer dollars to the known extreme corruption of Ukraine.

How the war will end is between the US and Russia and it seems clear the US wants no military role in the post settlement world, hence the EU in panic mode and Starmer insisting on an “American backstop” which I don’t think he’ll get .

 

[SandisLL]

UKR debts are cos xxxx different loans they had get.
Ukr Central Bank foreign currency reserves are approx something between 40 -41 b $.

While just one form their debts, read carefully direct text that it isn't all, it is 1 form xx debts....jut one.
December 2024 th : uif adminstred direct loans ~ 44 000 000 000 EUR €.

Unfortunately it just one form 1 xxx loans. JUST ONE...just onece.