International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V13

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Ukraine Just Had Its Best Week Since Counteroffensive Began
BY BRENDAN COLE ON 9/23/23 AT 10:21 AM EDT

Ukraine has said it has broken through in Verbove in the southern Zaporizhzhia region, capping off a period of morale-boosting gains by Kyiv in the fourth month of its counteroffensive on the battlefield and by the sea.

The general leading Ukraine's counteroffensive along the southern front line, Oleksandr Tarnavsky, told CNN that his forces had made a breakthrough in the strategically important town of Verbove in the Zaporizhzhia region. It lies east of Robotyne, which Ukraine said it had recaptured last month.

Tarnavsky said on Friday that Ukrainian troops continue to advance further on the southern front. Kyiv's forces are said to have penetrated the first cordon of Russia's defenses, known as the "Surovikin line." This was built on the orders of General Sergey Surovikin, while he was in charge of Russian forces.

CNN reported this week how Ukrainian forces were still 13 miles from the small city of Tokmak. It is considered critical for Russia's defense of Melitopol, known as the gateway to Crimea.

But Tarnavsky said that there will be a big breakthrough, which will happen after Tokmak, and that at the moment, Russian forces "are relying on the depth of their defensive line there."

Tarnavsky's comments to CNN that it was important not to lose this initiative came on the same day as Ukraine claimed responsibility for a missile strike on Russian naval headquarters in Sevastopol, Crimea.

Kyrylo Budanov, head of Ukraine's military intelligence, said that Russian generals were among the casualties of the strike, which killed at least nine and injured 16. Newsweek has yet to verify the exact numbers of dead and wounded. Kremlin propagandists voiced alarm at the ability of Russia's air defenses.

Over recent weeks, Ukraine has focused on the peninsula illegally annexed by Russia in 2014. Crimea is a strategically vital logistics hub due to its location on the Black Sea, and strikes there have grabbed the headlines.

Ukraine said that, on September 13, it had struck Russian naval targets and port infrastructure in Sevastopol. A large vessel and a submarine were so badly damaged as to be likely beyond repair. Russia's Defence Ministry said Kyiv had attacked a Black Sea shipyard with 10 cruise missiles and three uncrewed speedboats.

Ukraine's focus on targeting Crimea occurred after Russia allowed the Black Sea Grain Initiative to lapse in July, which, until then, had allowed the safe passage of Ukrainian agricultural products.

But Ukraine also appeared to show its resilience and ability to reopen shipping lanes when two cargo vessels left the Ukrainian Black Sea port of Chornomorsk this week. The second of the ships, the Aroyat, had loaded almost 20,000 tonnes of wheat bound for Africa and Asia, Reuters reported.

https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-russia-counteroffensive-best-week-1829346

 
Ukraine Just Had Its Best Week Since Counteroffensive Began
BY BRENDAN COLE ON 9/23/23 AT 10:21 AM EDT

Ukraine has said it has broken through in Verbove in the southern Zaporizhzhia region, capping off a period of morale-boosting gains by Kyiv in the fourth month of its counteroffensive on the battlefield and by the sea.

The general leading Ukraine's counteroffensive along the southern front line, Oleksandr Tarnavsky, told CNN that his forces had made a breakthrough in the strategically important town of Verbove in the Zaporizhzhia region. It lies east of Robotyne, which Ukraine said it had recaptured last month.

Tarnavsky said on Friday that Ukrainian troops continue to advance further on the southern front. Kyiv's forces are said to have penetrated the first cordon of Russia's defenses, known as the "Surovikin line." This was built on the orders of General Sergey Surovikin, while he was in charge of Russian forces.

CNN reported this week how Ukrainian forces were still 13 miles from the small city of Tokmak. It is considered critical for Russia's defense of Melitopol, known as the gateway to Crimea.

But Tarnavsky said that there will be a big breakthrough, which will happen after Tokmak, and that at the moment, Russian forces "are relying on the depth of their defensive line there."

Tarnavsky's comments to CNN that it was important not to lose this initiative came on the same day as Ukraine claimed responsibility for a missile strike on Russian naval headquarters in Sevastopol, Crimea.

Kyrylo Budanov, head of Ukraine's military intelligence, said that Russian generals were among the casualties of the strike, which killed at least nine and injured 16. Newsweek has yet to verify the exact numbers of dead and wounded. Kremlin propagandists voiced alarm at the ability of Russia's air defenses.

Over recent weeks, Ukraine has focused on the peninsula illegally annexed by Russia in 2014. Crimea is a strategically vital logistics hub due to its location on the Black Sea, and strikes there have grabbed the headlines.

Ukraine said that, on September 13, it had struck Russian naval targets and port infrastructure in Sevastopol. A large vessel and a submarine were so badly damaged as to be likely beyond repair. Russia's Defence Ministry said Kyiv had attacked a Black Sea shipyard with 10 cruise missiles and three uncrewed speedboats.

Ukraine's focus on targeting Crimea occurred after Russia allowed the Black Sea Grain Initiative to lapse in July, which, until then, had allowed the safe passage of Ukrainian agricultural products.

But Ukraine also appeared to show its resilience and ability to reopen shipping lanes when two cargo vessels left the Ukrainian Black Sea port of Chornomorsk this week. The second of the ships, the Aroyat, had loaded almost 20,000 tonnes of wheat bound for Africa and Asia, Reuters reported.

https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-russia-counteroffensive-best-week-1829346

Tokmak will be real tough but if Ukraine gets it, they will have basically succeeded in the counter offensive. That was the minimum goal.

Russia has been furiously putting defensive fortifications around the town this entire time. So will not be easy.
 
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Do you follow this channel and do you find it reasonably unbiased?

I like their historic ancient battle stuff like Mongols, Crusades, etc. The Ukraine war stuff is good too.

They tell the story of the battle in an entertaining way.
 
Right. Because that would be bad. Watching men die is OK though.
There's plenty of more light hearted topics and threads on these forums
I'm afraid men dying is very much a real part of this war...


Anyway, bit of realism regarding the counteroffensive
 
There's plenty of more light hearted topics and threads on these forums
I'm afraid men dying is very much a real part of this war...


Anyway, bit of realism regarding the counteroffensive


its still small, not sure if resources put in versus results really match


 
Tokmak will be real tough but if Ukraine gets it, they will have basically succeeded in the counter offensive. That was the minimum goal.

Russia has been furiously putting defensive fortifications around the town this entire time. So will not be easy.
They should bypass the place and keep going, very little time left for the offensive before winter fucks up the roads, get as far as u can into occupied territory,they can cut off. tokmak and deal with it later
 
Injured Russian soldiers are being sent back to the front line without being treated amid manpower and ammunition shortages, report says
Alia Shoaib

Injured Russian soldiers are being sent back to the front lines in Ukraine without being treated as Putin's forces suffer manpower shortages, Siberia.Realities, a regional outlet of Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, reported.

Irina, the mother of a Russian soldier called Nikolai, told the outlet that her son could not walk "without screaming" or painkillers due to shrapnel in both of his legs — but he had still been sent back to the front line.

She said he had been serving with 27th Separate Guards Motor Rifle Brigade and has been wounded twice in battle.

The first time he was taken to a hospital, but the shrapnel was not removed, and the second time, he returned to the front line the day after getting injured.

She said that troops were being treated "like cows at a slaughterhouse" and that she believed her son's poor treatment was due to the fact that he was a former prisoner who had been recruited to fight.

Ekaterina Bogdanova, from Irkutsk Oblast in Siberia, told the outlet that her husband Kostya, who served in the same brigade, had also been wounded by shrapnel on the same day as Nikolai.

"That day they had terrible losses, six men for every 10," Bogdanova said, adding that her husband had told her his unit was running out of ammunition.

"They come with only automatic rifles and half-empty cartridges. There's not enough ammo for half a minute. The fact that they came back — a quarter of those who left — is a great miracle," she added.

Both women said they had appealed to the military prosecutor's office on behalf of their son and husband, but they told the outlet that they had not heard back.

The claims come amid further reports about Russia's mounting losses and ammunition shortages as Ukraine continues its counteroffensive.

A video shared on X, formerly known as Twitter, earlier this week by Anton Gerashchenko, an advisor to the Minister of Internal Affairs of Ukraine, showed a group of men claiming to be Russian artillerymen complaining about being sent to the front lines as infantrymen, without proper training, after running out of ammunition.

A recent investigative report by independent Russian outlets said that the average time for a mobilized Russian troop to die in Ukraine was just four-and-a-half months.

51XfJfmMd8L._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg

https://news.yahoo.com/injured-russ...ta4AIxCs95exK_pa-Vf7QbNM8a8ty-wiK19cRd0m-JcQT

- Poor guys. Are send to die, because some ditactor got to compensate his small penis.
 
its still small, not sure if resources put in versus results really match


But that's misleading because the space between the white line and yellow line is orders of magnitude more difficult than the space between the yellow line and Melitopol. And I mean it's not like there are Russian soldiers just filling every mile of that space somehow anyway.
 
Right. Because that would be bad. Watching men die is OK though.


War is HELL.

This is coming from a twice deployed veteran.



That *SNAP* you hear is the micro-sonic-boom that a bullet makes as it passes by your body.
 
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But that's misleading because the space between the white line and yellow line is orders of magnitude more difficult than the space between the yellow line and Melitopol. And I mean it's not like there are Russian soldiers just filling every mile of that space somehow anyway.

Its not really misleading because it simply shows situation on map

" Difficulty" level in future is another matter entirely and cant be verified currently
 
Its not really misleading because it simply shows situation on map

" Difficulty" level in future is another matter entirely and cant be verified
Nah i'm calling that out. The reason the map has moved the way it has is specifically due to the location of the actual defensive lines. An image like that isn't just showing a static image, it's generating or implying a conclusion and, in this case, with no context.
 
Nah i'm calling that out. The reason the map has moved the way it has is specifically due to the location of the actual defensive lines. An image like that isn't just showing a static image, it's generating or implying a conclusion and, in this case, with no context.

Alright, another map, this one pro ukr one

Still small from if looking from about same map measurements



Has unit markers as well if interested, lmao at chechen akhmat in back of course

https://deepstatemap.live/en#8/47.300/35.759
 
Alright, another map, this one pro ukr one

Still small from if looking from about same map measurements



Has unit markers as well if interested
I don't care about whether or not these maps are "Pro Ukrainian", my concern is when significance gets downplayed for, well, any number of reasons. You can say, factually, that the lines haven't moved very far in ___ place, but that statement alone belies the very real significance of that movement if you don't add context. When I look at something like the initial image you showed, all I hear is San Marino trying to spin a narrative of some kind because he wants these things to fit his own hopes and dreams (and i'm not lumping you in with that, my issue was the picture not the poster).
 
I don't care about whether or not these maps are "Pro Ukrainian", my concern is when significance gets downplayed for, well, any number of reasons. You can say, factually, that the lines haven't moved very far in ___ place, but that statement alone belies the very real significance of that movement if you don't add context. When I look at something like the initial image you showed, all I hear is San Marino trying to spin a narrative of some kind because he wants these things to fit his own hopes and dreams (and i'm not lumping you in with that, my issue was the picture not the poster).

Thing is we dont know if these are significant or not, we have no way to confirm it at all

Map says it is small currently that much we can verify, how significant this development is we will see in future, will it develop into something or not.
 
Thing is we dont know if these are significant or not, we have no way to confirm it at all

Map says it is small currently that much we can verify, how significant this development is we will see in future, will it develop into something or not.
Penetrating a main defensive line is definitely significant
 
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