International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V13

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For example after Kahovka HPP dam blast they asked countries to help technically and with money.
One country signed them additonal unplanned grant xx.
Another country : 100 X lesser sum cos they immediately started to talk how high sums they are excepting to get for reconstruction. LOL.
 
I've seen social media postings of the sons of the wealthy and well connected touring around Europe. Aint nobody who is well connected in Russia letting their kids die in this thing either.

The debate wasn't about Russians. I support both Ukrainians and Russians avoiding conscription as I don't think they have any ethical responsibility to answer their call to arms. Especially when the callers exempt themselves and their loved ones from it. Hypocrites don't have any moral authority.
 
Now hold on just a second everyone. I have it on good authority from none other than @San Marino that these defensive lines were neigh impenetrable, and required some sort of D-Day-esq airborne drop to circumvent.

You are talking about this Ukrainian advance (map below)? Yeah, 6 miles due South is a massive offensive movement. They have this war won! Look at the map and what is to their South, East, and West. They have another 95 miles due South to conquer. Are tanks getting in there? How many Ukrainians died to take that 'small' amount of ground? How many Ukrainian soldiers are still left to fight in this conflict. ...and the Russian counteroffensive:

The Elastic defense:

In the current Russian defensive approach, a front line of troops most often meets the initial attack but then falls back to prepared defensive positions manned with other Russian troops. The Ukrainians generally advance several hundred meters or up to a kilometer or so, taking losses from mines, artillery, and helicopter and/or drone strikes, and getting tired as they do. When the local Russian commander judges the moment to be right, Russian forces then launch a counterattack to push the Ukrainians back to their original positions, which often succeeds. This approach is generally optimal as it causes the attack to expend much of its power making initial small-scale gains against limited numbers of Russian defenders such that the Russian counter-attacking forces have a relatively easier time pushing them back. Russian forces have in some instances – particularly in early June – repelled Ukrainian attacks without needing to temporarily fall back, most often through the devastating use of anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs) fired both by ground forces and Russian attack helicopters.

The elastic defense is tactically effective, but it puts a significant burden on the defenders. They have to receive the brunt of a prepared Ukrainian attack each time, withdraw in good order in the face of it, and then either motivate themselves or have a second line of forces motivated enough to launch and press a counterattack. The tactical engagement thus ebbs and flows in a very dynamic manner with a lot of moving and fighting that is concealed by the fact that the control lines on the map remain the same at the end of the day as they were at the start.

The elastic defense exhausts the attackers, as it is meant to, and inflicts losses on them without allowing them to make permanent gains. But it also takes a heavy toll on the defenders, who must remain motivated and able to continue to launch counterattacks from prepared and defensible positions each time. Exhaustion, losses, and demoralization can all undermine the willingness and ability of defenders to continue launching those counterattacks, especially when the same units and same soldiers have to keep doing it for weeks and months on end without relief, as is the case here because of the current Russian rotational policies.

Pyatykhatky%20and%20Robotyne%20Battle%20Map%20Draft%20August%2031%2C2023.png


* Get back to me when the Ukrainian Army runs out of soldiers in this conflict.
 
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@Darkballs I for one am shocked that our friend's analysis seems to be so far off.
I see the usual clapping seals (idiots) are giving you kudos for you wrong assumptions - again.
Got to love this thread! ;)
 
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San Marino either is trolling or in reality supports Russia.
I easily see that he between lines advocates Ukraine to cede territories annexed by Putin on paper .... also ofc to undergo mandatory deUkrainization and mandatory rusification.

Then life for him will be happy, they will die not in trenches .... torture chambers and filtration camps are usable.

Till next WAR .... more land to cede to Putin till they will take all Ukraine and denacifyalso Moldova, then comrade Orban will be happy.

Russian nationalists hates even Belarussian language and belarus ppl, they are calling them " bulbash " ....
Not alone Ukrainians: they are called as " ukrops " and " chohols " ....

spinmarino most likely will be happy to talk about history when Alaska should be ceded to Russia and some parts of U.S should be ceded to King of Spain, United Kingdoom and France because better no war here.
Xi might want to protect mandarin speakers in U.S too. They maybe are oppressed.
 
You are talking about this Ukrainian advance (map below)? Yeah, 6 miles due South is a massive offensive movement. They have this war won! Look at the map and what is to their South, East, and West. They have another 95 miles due South to conquer. Are tanks getting in there? How many Ukrainians died to take that 'small' amount of ground? How many Ukrainian soldiers are still left to fight in this conflict. ...and the Russian counteroffensive:

The Elastic defense:

In the current Russian defensive approach, a front line of troops most often meets the initial attack but then falls back to prepared defensive positions manned with other Russian troops. The Ukrainians generally advance several hundred meters or up to a kilometer or so, taking losses from mines, artillery, and helicopter and/or drone strikes, and getting tired as they do. When the local Russian commander judges the moment to be right, Russian forces then launch a counterattack to push the Ukrainians back to their original positions, which often succeeds. This approach is generally optimal as it causes the attack to expend much of its power making initial small-scale gains against limited numbers of Russian defenders such that the Russian counter-attacking forces have a relatively easier time pushing them back. Russian forces have in some instances – particularly in early June – repelled Ukrainian attacks without needing to temporarily fall back, most often through the devastating use of anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs) fired both by ground forces and Russian attack helicopters.

The elastic defense is tactically effective, but it puts a significant burden on the defenders. They have to receive the brunt of a prepared Ukrainian attack each time, withdraw in good order in the face of it, and then either motivate themselves or have a second line of forces motivated enough to launch and press a counterattack. The tactical engagement thus ebbs and flows in a very dynamic manner with a lot of moving and fighting that is concealed by the fact that the control lines on the map remain the same at the end of the day as they were at the start.

The elastic defense exhausts the attackers, as it is meant to, and inflicts losses on them without allowing them to make permanent gains. But it also takes a heavy toll on the defenders, who must remain motivated and able to continue to launch counterattacks from prepared and defensible positions each time. Exhaustion, losses, and demoralization can all undermine the willingness and ability of defenders to continue launching those counterattacks, especially when the same units and same soldiers have to keep doing it for weeks and months on end without relief, as is the case here because of the current Russian rotational policies.

Pyatykhatky%20and%20Robotyne%20Battle%20Map%20Draft%20August%2031%2C2023.png


* Get back to me when the Ukrainian Army runs out of soldiers in this conflict.
If your information is correct, and the current offensive strategy Ukraine is employing is so ineffective, why would their military commanders continue on with it after such an extended period of time?
 
If your information is correct, and the current offensive strategy Ukraine is employing is so ineffective, why would their military commanders continue on with it after such an extended period of time?
Because they don't really know what they are doing. They have already said the training they received from the Americans and Europeans was useless. They would know right? They are the experts in warfare. So, I ask again: How many soldiers does the Ukrainian Army have? How many soldiers is the Ukrainian Army loosing per week? How long before the Ukrainian Army runs out of soldiers to fight this conflict? They are not getting replacements. Instead of losing your Army in an offensive to try to push the Russians back to their original border, Ukraine should try to be conservative about their losses and maintain a defensive position. Just my 2 cents.
 
Because they don't really know what they are doing. They have already said the training they received from the Americans and Europeans was useless. They would know right? They are the experts in warfare. So, I ask again: How many soldiers does the Ukrainian Army have? How many soldiers is the Ukrainian Army loosing per week? How long before the Ukrainian Army runs out of soldiers to fight this conflict? They are not getting replacements. Instead of losing your Army in an offensive to try to push the Russians back to their original border, Ukraine should try to be conservative about their losses and maintain a defensive position. Just my 2 cents.
No more giant para-drops?
<{outtahere}>
 
War is generally nothing more than the rich elites of one country sending their underclasses to butcher the poor of another country. It's incredibly nonsensical and about as evil and unethical as it gets. I support both the Russians and Ukrainians who have gotten themselves out of this mess. Let Putin and Zelensky fight to the death over it.

That's easy to say but UKR is defending itself from invasion and fighting for their very existence, it's life or death for them. Russia is trying for a land grab....do you not see the difference? If you were Zelensky what would you do?
 

This is reality that China wants to turn Russia into Chinatown and China is sneaky and loves to use obstacles and soft power too. Plus wants chinesse living not in China to have a lot of kids. They already does have approx 10x more manpower for mobilization and approx 14,5 x more money than Russia does have....
India wants to turn Russia into Hindustantown.
Pakistan and Iran into.... walley with mosques.
Brazil : to push down fertilizers prices.

__
Welcome to the long term soft hell.
Instead of barking dogs as " opponents " to get hungry and sneaky tigers as friends.
 
War is generally nothing more than the rich elites of one country sending their underclasses to butcher the poor of another country. It's incredibly nonsensical and about as evil and unethical as it gets. I support both the Russians and Ukrainians who have gotten themselves out of this mess. Let Putin and Zelensky fight to the death over it.
Why Zelensky? he didn't ask for this.
 
...why would their military commanders continue on with it after such an extended period of time?
Is that not what the US did in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan? Our commanders thought they had all 3 conflicts won at the beginning only to find out they (US) lost after roughly 8 years. People just fail to learn lessons from history.
 
Because they don't really know what they are doing. They have already said the training they received from the Americans and Europeans was useless. They would know right? They are the experts in warfare. So, I ask again: How many soldiers does the Ukrainian Army have? How many soldiers is the Ukrainian Army loosing per week? How long before the Ukrainian Army runs out of soldiers to fight this conflict? They are not getting replacements. Instead of losing your Army in an offensive to try to push the Russians back to their original border, Ukraine should try to be conservative about their losses and maintain a defensive position. Just my 2 cents.

You've literally being saying this for a year!!!, they can continue because their loses are no where near what Russia has. If the man power issue was severe they likely wouldnt be on an offensive and if it does get to that point they will likely pull back. They might know a little more then you do....just my 2 cents.
 
No more giant para-drops?
Only time will tell.
The 25th Airborne Brigade "Sicheslav" is an airborne formation of the Ukrainian Air Assault Forces. It is the only airborne unit of Ukrainian Air Assault Forces which has BMD-1 and BMD-2 airborne infantry fighting vehicles in its inventory. In addition, it is the only unit which can be dropped anywhere by parachute, together with their armored vehicles, from II-76MD and An-70 aircraft.
204px-25_%D0%9E%D0%9F%D0%94%D0%91%D1%80_%D0%BA.svg.png
 
Because they don't really know what they are doing. They have already said the training they received from the Americans and Europeans was useless. They would know right? They are the experts in warfare. So, I ask again: How many soldiers does the Ukrainian Army have? How many soldiers is the Ukrainian Army loosing per week? How long before the Ukrainian Army runs out of soldiers to fight this conflict? They are not getting replacements. Instead of losing your Army in an offensive to try to push the Russians back to their original border, Ukraine should try to be conservative about their losses and maintain a defensive position. Just my 2 cents.
I haven't been following this thread or topic as closely as you or others, but a recent BBC article does allude to the counter offensive exacting a very costly toll of Ukrainian lives. I assume based on this information the total number of Ukrainians perishing a week was extremely high at some recent point.

As recently as April, leaked estimates from the Pentagon put Ukrainian deaths at the much lower figure of 17,500. The alleged jump to more than 70,000 can be partly explained by the counter-offensive in the south. In its early days it was especially hard on Ukrainian infantry - "worse than Bakhmut" one brigade commander who is fighting there told me. The city in Donetsk fell to Russia in May in one of the bloodiest battles of the war so far.

Ukraine has now changed tactics there, but the beginning of the push to breach Russia's occupation defences in June was costly, for young newly trained soldiers in particular. They were dying "by the dozens" every day, one senior sergeant fighting around the Donetsk village of Velyka Novosilka told me in June.

The article also explains in part why the questions you asked are proving so difficult to answer at the moment. I don't think we'll have any exact information for years to come.

Ukrainian Deputy Defence Minister Hanna Maliar earlier released a statement warning that those who release casualty numbers would be liable to criminal prosecution.

"Why is this data secret?" she asked rhetorically. "Because during the active phase of the war, the enemy uses the number of dead and wounded to calculate our likely further actions… If the enemy has this information, they will begin to understand some of our next steps."



https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66581217
 
They can continue because their loses are no where near what Russia has. If the man power issue was severe they likely wouldnt be on an offensive and if it does get to that point they will likely pull back. They might know a little more then you do.
...but Ukraine has less soldiers than Russia. Total losses in proportion to the size of their Army - and replacements or lack thereof.
Only time will tell who is right.
 
Me likes how San Marino is talking about U.S in Afganistan.
Trump had reduced number of U.S troops till 2500 guys for country not much smaller than Ukraine and with mountain area.
These weren't enough to protect Kabul ( Cabul ) and therefore Biden had installed more forces to assist evacuation.
Looks that they didn't excepted that majority of afgans will not fight against taliban.

Vietnam and Korea were real proxy wars between China used as proxy and with huge assistance from USSR backed by Warshaw block ( cos economically and politically they were Kremlin's vassals ).
Vietnam stuff had failed cos conscription in U.S had reached huge resistance level.
 
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