International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V12

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Boxiana said:
From what I read and listen to, this is a war being fought by two Soviet era armies, largely in accordance with Soviet doctrine.

Neither side has air superiority because of the strength of the other sides anti air capabilities.

I don’t see how even a 100 F-16s has any bearing on the war. Ukraine is not and cannot fight how the US does, and so what will be their role?

Interested to hear any views on this.
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Russia does have air overmatch and they have been using that at least defensively. If Ukraine did have F16s it would at least give them a chance to defend their ground troops as they push into Russian held territory
 
Siver! said:
Just like the Chechens, when Wagner were thrust into action they were made out to be some elite force that would change the course of war.

Just like the Chechens, the failed.

Unlike the Chechens, they tried a mutiny.

Word was Kadyrov wasn't doing so well at one point, but for a while he was speaking out against the army as well. He just realised he wasn't shit and reined it in.

Back to Shoigu, then, with no more aces to play for Putin?
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West and east didn't had supported Checen independence....
Kadirov is smart and is milking cocky russian taxpayers cos they are happy to be poor and still called as winners etc. Will not be Kadirov, will be next batch with technicians skilled to milk russians like in dairy farm.
 
Strelkov in prison, Utkin and Prigozhin taken out in the air. Putin doing de-nazification finally lol

Shutting down every possible relevant (or strong) fascist pro-war voice that critics the current regime for being weak. Secure an election win without trouble in spring and a capitulation "deal" next summer in Ukr with as little chance for social unrest inside as it can be.

Not a bad start of implementation for his plan, but doesn't mean every obstacle is gone with the killing of the problematic oligarchs/bloggers. Unexpected variables will be at play until election time and post agreement too.
 
Siver! said:
Just like the Chechens, when Wagner were thrust into action they were made out to be some elite force that would change the course of war.

Just like the Chechens, the failed.

Unlike the Chechens, they tried a mutiny.

Word was Kadyrov wasn't doing so well at one point, but for a while he was speaking out against the army as well. He just realised he wasn't shit and reined it in.

Back to Shoigu, then, with no more aces to play for Putin?
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shoigu running out of people to blame
 
Blayt7hh said:
Russia does have air overmatch and they have been using that at least defensively. If Ukraine did have F16s it would at least give them a chance to defend their ground troops as they push into Russian held territory
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only MiG-31 and su-35S
 
Badr Hari said:
Strelkov in prison, Utkin and Prigozhin taken out in the air. Putin doing de-nazification finally lol

Shutting down every possible relevant (or strong) fascist pro-war voice that critics the current regime for being weak. Secure an election win without trouble in spring and a capitulation "deal" next summer in Ukr with as little chance for social unrest inside as it can be.

Not a bad start of implementation for his plan, but doesn't mean every obstacle is gone with the killing of the problematic oligarchs/bloggers. Unexpected variables will be at play until election time and post agreement too.
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It appears a lot of the Wagner brass were on the fight also, 10 people in total. Maybe lord Putin was just waiting for the perfect moment to get a bunch of birds with one stone lessening the chance of retaliation.
Still cant believe how arrogant/naive he was by just coming and going as if he was untouchable...he was a dead man walking since the march on Moscow and likely long before that.
 
Cole train said:
Bit too public if it was assasination unless they want to send some weird message

Knowing rus intelligence hit squads they should have been able to get to baldfather quietly
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You'd think so but he's probably always surrounded by armed guards. If they killed Dmitry Utkin as well IMO this means some Kremlin crony will be acquiring Wagner at a discount.
 
Ornife said:
That's not what I saw on YouTube. Everyone is saying that the counter offensive is making small but meaningful progress every hour of everyday and that the Russians have been put on a continuous backfoot. And where is your evidence that Ukraine can't win anyway? Every fighting aged Ukrainian male will sacrifice their life to defeat Putin. They will prevail no matter what the cost. Slava Ukraini!
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Idk man a lot of people have dodged that draft. I know three personally.
 
SandisLL said:
West and east didn't had supported Checen independence....
Kadirov is smart and is milking cocky russian taxpayers cos they are happy to be poor and still called as winners etc. Will not be Kadirov, will be next batch with technicians skilled to milk russians like in dairy farm.
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I agree with this. Chechnya gets a ton of money from the Russian federal government, it's basically a feudal arrangement at this point. Chechnya gets about 300 billion rubles annually, for a place with only 1.5 million inhabitants.
 
Goober stoober said:
at the end of the day, men and women were sent to die for what is now being described as nothing valuable.

russia is built for the long game. if you want progress you need nato to commit troops. putting this solely on the UA is kind of messed up, even if they get the top of the line equipment.

the west let ukraine down and now it's using their people as cannon fodder.
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Russia isn't built for the long game.

Large, apathetic population.
high loss tolerance
none of that pesky democracy
large amounts of stored gear

Yeah they help.

They're all poor substitutes for economic power and production capacity in a war of attrition though.

At the current rate of spending this war needs to last around 120 years for it to cost America as much as the war on terror did.


I agree the west has let Ukraine down with the aid for this counter offensive. It could be handled better. Even now HIMARS is still nerfed.

No HIMARS cluster rockets
No GLSDB
No ATACMS.


Long war is different though animal though. f-16's are a bottomless pit. Ukraine will not be able to find enough pilots to keep up with the amount of f-16's the west retires.

American HIMARS: 40 systems... not all arrived yet though.
40x4 million = 160 million

Netherlands f-16 rumour: 42 f-16s
42x15 million = 630 million
 
GhostZ06 said:
Then you had Su-47 Berkut which was more maneuverable then F-22, an they almost produced it. To bad putin is an idiot ruined Mig and Sukhoi by merging them all into 1 company.
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Who cares if they're more maneuverable? That's useless when the name of the game is stealthily detecting each other from distance and firing rockets before they even know you're there.
 
Denter said:
You'd think so but he's probably always surrounded by armed guards. If they killed Dmitry Utkin as well IMO this means some Kremlin crony will be acquiring Wagner at a discount.
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Hard to say, depends on how the rank and file react to the killing of some of their leaders. Who is next in command and will they try to take revenge for this?....This could backfire big time for Putler as he just gained many more enemies inside his own country.
 
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