International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V12

[SandisLL]

SAMP-T btw does have better real technical specifications than are listed for public....

Additionally, looks that Ukr will get very old HAWK-23 II ( not III gen ) stuff.
If even this might work on russia then ....no questions.

 

[SandisLL]

Nice spin, didn’t say Russia would be Nuked with several nukes did I?. They would be out casted from the world and severe military action from NATO would likely make sure they would never have capability to make war for the foreseeable future.

This is spin marino. Nothing new. How hard he had worked in 2022 th here and there to indirectly justify invasion like we all here are idiots. He does think that we are idiots and he is smart.

 

[Rholk]

 

[aries]

Russia is always a victim and always getting provoked.

Just remember when dealing with Russia:

 

[SandisLL]

If about dumbass, in reality looks that Ukraine 1992- 2022 th february had " invested " not really invested real efforts in fortifications and minefields and to accumulate multiple xxx warehouses with cheap ammo. Ukr elite simply is replacing anyone who afforderd to talk about this real situation.
It is only one small peace in their laziness till insane theater level.
For example even had failed to blow up bridges etc when russia advanced.
Etc etc.
I don't support Putin but ukrainians really need to hear realistic and very sharp healthy critique instead to live in dreams, sorry for reality.

 

[SandisLL]

For the same air defense.
They had damn a lot of S-125 and Kub batteries, still during 30 years manged to turn them into 0 value unlike even some african countries.
Additionally they had decent missile industry.
Additonally, even OSA upgrade project was highly touted and prised, result 0 for combat.

Might continue with low number of Neptunes, failure to make ground to ground Neptune version, inabilitiy to produce Grom stuff they talked about years ago.
Tanks production too.
Yeah, normal examples etc...
While in reality... majority of stuff 1969-1992 th production etc....
Btw sadly for ukrainains it was only 1 small stuff from xxxxx failures during 30 years in row.

 

[SandisLL]

Why Poland had choosed Abrams and SK tanks and does gave fuck about german production?
Initially they get some old L2A4 and wanted to upgrade these with NerA or ERA kits and comrades told that it isn't according to license and clauses.

Then they told that air defense battery might worry german comrades in Kremlin.
Business, nothing personal and no one is delusional while German politicians are laughable sausages eaters if they are dreaming to use some badly supplied ,( in order to not worry german friends in russia ) countries as cheap kurds like buffer to slow down russia until their arses will manage to get till shelters in France or U.K.

Sorry, german comrades.

 

[SandisLL]

Ukr today managed to destroy 9 ammo depots and 3 very expensive radioelectronic warfare stations.
While looks that there isn't big advances or big success.
Russia is attempting to attack and part of forces and manpower they still are using to build even more fortifications. Fortifications in some cases are even 90 km from frontline and they still are installing new minefields.

I think that Harkov success mainly wasn't cos lack of manpower but cos they assumed that will advance further and quickly, therefore didn't had ordered to install very impressive minefields...like now....

 

[BlankaPresident]

Russia tried to avoid that situation. At the end of the day they aren't willing to let those lands go into NATO. They were willing to allow those areas to be part of a neutral Ukraine with autonomy and this was the purpose of the Minsk Accords. Instead of implementing these accords Ukraine waged war for 7 more years against LPR/DPR.

The people of LPR/DPR fought for a decade before Russia went in and before pro Russian parties were banned the elections were crystal clear the western and eastern halfs of Ukraine were polarized. Not US polarized where states like Texas and Cali have about 60% of the dominant party but like 80/90-20/10 in western regions one way and 80/90-20/10 the other way in the east.

If you look at it historically it's entirely different.

Crimea was mostly Russian too but Russia actually consented to giving that to Ukraine and Ukraine at least had a case of being made Ukraine took it back after the whole nuke thing. I don't agree with it because Russia could not risk Ukraine taking the Crimean peninsula into NATO under any circumstances but there's some "no takebacks" logic there. Russias Black Sea Fleet is there and Ukraine allowed them to stay. If Ukraine joined NATO Russia would lose access to the Black Sea. It is not as simple as going back on their word. That word was contingent on the assumption Russias navy would always be welcome in Crimea. Once that ceased to be the case it was fair game. But the other borders were drawn as an internal administrative thing by people who didn't imagine those lines would be the borders of nations. People don't understand how far east the disputed territorys are. LPR and DPR are closer to Stalingrad(the furthest the Nazis or any modern invader got into Russia/USSR) then to Lyiv in Western Ukraine. The idea of having territorys that far east potentially enter NATO from Russias perspective is batshit insane. Wehther or not you agree NATOs promise to not go beyond Germany was binding NATO has advanced not just into Russias sphere of influence but now threatens to go deep into Russia itself.

Ukraine is to Russia what Austria is to Germany. It's Russian but the people in the West have a unique history because they were not incorporated into Muscovy at the same time the rest of Russia was following the Mongol invasion. Ukraine should be a seperate country for the same reason Austria should be but it's eastern holdings were Russian Russian and wanted the opposite destiny the western part of Ukraine did. I'll grant the Russian president the US deposed was every bit a Russian puppet as Willy Wonka was a US one and that puppet won an election Lincoln style(one half of the country over the other). But the US then deposed that President moved in the opposite direction and then went to actual war with the the people(leftists) who wanted to move in the easts direction.

Kherson and Zap regions while still pro Russian weren't polarized in Russians favor quite as much. The main motive between those annexations were the land bridge with Crimea and they stretched for cities like Kherson and Mikolaeyv on west side of dneiper because they've traditionally been one of the most important shipbuilders in all of Russia/USSR. They couldn't hold Kherson but these are vital locations for a country that needs to maintain 3 different navies just by virtue of their geography. Those regions are likely getting split in a piece agreement, I believe Russias main priority is Donetsk and parts of Kharkov and Russia will accept something resembling the status quo in the other 2. The main function of those regions to Russia is the land bridge so Crimea(the home of the Black Sea Fleet) is not isolated and vulnerable to attack.

Finally the party that became United Russia started out as a US puppet meant to stop the Communists that changed their mind in the face of US agressions. The US put this regime in power and are now upset it changed its mind. They turned poor Medvedev from a moderate seeking friendship with the west to a raving alcholic threatening nuclear war more often than Kim Jong Un. Dealing with Hillary Clinton for years will do that to you.

In Moldava 1/3rd of the country broke away from the other 2/3s except Moldova didn't violently try to stop it like Ukraine. That happened in 1991 before United Russia was a thing it was the peoples choice. The tension is because Moldova like Ukraine wants to join EU/NATO and 1/3rd of the country doesn't consider itself part of Moldova. How is that Russian aggression? Russia does not want Moldova it doesn't even want to formally annex the 1/3rd of Moldova it and it's allies already control but if the Western part of Moldava wants to join EU/NATO and potentially Romania(which is part of NATO) is Russia supposed to just let that happen? How can territory with a Russian garrison Moldava doesn't physically control become part of a nuclear armed anti Russian alliance? I don't understand how one can possibly perceive that as Russian aggression? They already have controlled the territory they're being accused of trying to steal for 30 years?

Understanding history of both Russian Empire and USSR is critical to understanding Russian perspective. The conflicts in the caucuses have been happening hundreds of years.

First, kudos for the long and well written reply. Even with disagreements and difference in positions in many topics, I regard you as a very good poster in these forums.

I'm aware of basically everything you wrote. But my interpretation of those info is completely different, and that's when we reach a point where we just have to agree to disagree. I don't think the real or perceived threats warrant Russia the right to take such actions.

As someone from a region of the world which has been (and to a lesser degree still is) subject to imperialism and has experienced it first hand, I can smell it even from half world away and will never stand with it. Even if it comes from the "other" side.

I'm only taking the time to try and convince you because I believe you are reasonable and open to convincing I usually do not bother on this thread.

You won't, but I unironically appreciate the effort.

 

[BlankaPresident]

I'm only taking the time to try and convince you because I believe you are reasonable and open to convincing I usually do not bother on this thread.

(On a side note: even if you did convince me of the legitimacy of Russian position, I still wouldn't side with it.

After 4 years of Bolsonaro, I will never ever even tolerate any of their far-right, authoritatian ilk. Him, Putin, Trump, Le Pen, Orbán and all that trash around the world can go fuck off in hell.)

 

[Rod1]

Lol come on.

I know right? July 2023 and we still get people trying to play the NATO aggression angle

 

[PEB]

Just remember when dealing with Russia:

Aries you need to update your avatar with prigozhin in his underwear waving high on a medical bed or something? How embarrassing.

 

[Rholk]

 

[Rod1]

In Moldava 1/3rd of the country broke away from the other 2/3s except Moldova didn't violently try to stop it like Ukraine. That happened in 1991 before United Russia was a thing it was the peoples choice. The tension is because Moldova like Ukraine wants to join EU/NATO and 1/3rd of the country doesn't consider itself part of Moldova. How is that Russian aggression? Russia does not want Moldova it doesn't even want to formally annex the 1/3rd of Moldova it and it's allies already control but if the Western part of Moldava wants to join EU/NATO and potentially Romania(which is part of NATO) is Russia supposed to just let that happen? How can territory with a Russian garrison Moldava doesn't physically control become part of a nuclear armed anti Russian alliance?

This is actually a good response.

I don't understand how one can possibly perceive that as Russian aggression? They already have controlled the territory they're being accused of trying to steal for 30 years?

Until this.

Its definitively Russian aggression, their own grievances don't supersede the grievances of others.

If Russia wanted to keep their area of influence intact they should had then looked into developing Russia into a modern nation that people would like to associate with, but they went the third world shithole route instead.

 

[aries]

Aries you need to update your avatar with prigozhin in his underwear waving high on a medical bed or something? How embarrassing.

I'll get on that. Looks like a 6 star Belarusian hotel, definitely not a camp bed in a tent....

 

[Ruthless Ryan]

Aries you need to update your avatar with prigozhin in his underwear waving high on a medical bed or something? How embarrassing.

Question is where is he and WTF is he doing in a boot camp ? I thought it was crazy of him having a meeting with Putin 5 days after the the stunt he pulled. Did he not suspect a trap would be set and Putler would just "make a deal" with him? I assume this pic was meant to humiliate him and bring down his hero status he was enjoying.

 

[AWilder]

Russia tried to avoid that situation. At the end of the day they aren't willing to let those lands go into NATO. They were willing to allow those areas to be part of a neutral Ukraine with autonomy and this was the purpose of the Minsk Accords. Instead of implementing these accords Ukraine waged war for 7 more years against LPR/DPR.

The people of LPR/DPR fought for a decade before Russia went in and before pro Russian parties were banned the elections were crystal clear the western and eastern halfs of Ukraine were polarized. Not US polarized where states like Texas and Cali have about 60% of the dominant party but like 80/90-20/10 in western regions one way and 80/90-20/10 the other way in the east.

If you look at it historically it's entirely different.

Crimea was mostly Russian too but Russia actually consented to giving that to Ukraine and Ukraine at least had a case of being made Ukraine took it back after the whole nuke thing. I don't agree with it because Russia could not risk Ukraine taking the Crimean peninsula into NATO under any circumstances but there's some "no takebacks" logic there. Russias Black Sea Fleet is there and Ukraine allowed them to stay. If Ukraine joined NATO Russia would lose access to the Black Sea. It is not as simple as going back on their word. That word was contingent on the assumption Russias navy would always be welcome in Crimea. Once that ceased to be the case it was fair game. But the other borders were drawn as an internal administrative thing by people who didn't imagine those lines would be the borders of nations. People don't understand how far east the disputed territorys are. LPR and DPR are closer to Stalingrad(the furthest the Nazis or any modern invader got into Russia/USSR) then to Lyiv in Western Ukraine. The idea of having territorys that far east potentially enter NATO from Russias perspective is batshit insane. Wehther or not you agree NATOs promise to not go beyond Germany was binding NATO has advanced not just into Russias sphere of influence but now threatens to go deep into Russia itself.

Ukraine is to Russia what Austria is to Germany. It's Russian but the people in the West have a unique history because they were not incorporated into Muscovy at the same time the rest of Russia was following the Mongol invasion. Ukraine should be a seperate country for the same reason Austria should be but it's eastern holdings were Russian Russian and wanted the opposite destiny the western part of Ukraine did. I'll grant the Russian president the US deposed was every bit a Russian puppet as Willy Wonka was a US one and that puppet won an election Lincoln style(one half of the country over the other). But the US then deposed that President moved in the opposite direction and then went to actual war with the the people(leftists) who wanted to move in the easts direction.

Kherson and Zap regions while still pro Russian weren't polarized in Russians favor quite as much. The main motive between those annexations were the land bridge with Crimea and they stretched for cities like Kherson and Mikolaeyv on west side of dneiper because they've traditionally been one of the most important shipbuilders in all of Russia/USSR. They couldn't hold Kherson but these are vital locations for a country that needs to maintain 3 different navies just by virtue of their geography. Those regions are likely getting split in a piece agreement, I believe Russias main priority is Donetsk and parts of Kharkov and Russia will accept something resembling the status quo in the other 2. The main function of those regions to Russia is the land bridge so Crimea(the home of the Black Sea Fleet) is not isolated and vulnerable to attack.

Finally the party that became United Russia started out as a US puppet meant to stop the Communists that changed their mind in the face of US agressions. The US put this regime in power and are now upset it changed its mind. They turned poor Medvedev from a moderate seeking friendship with the west to a raving alcholic threatening nuclear war more often than Kim Jong Un. Dealing with Hillary Clinton for years will do that to you.

In Moldava 1/3rd of the country broke away from the other 2/3s except Moldova didn't violently try to stop it like Ukraine. That happened in 1991 before United Russia was a thing it was the peoples choice. The tension is because Moldova like Ukraine wants to join EU/NATO and 1/3rd of the country doesn't consider itself part of Moldova. How is that Russian aggression? Russia does not want Moldova it doesn't even want to formally annex the 1/3rd of Moldova it and it's allies already control but if the Western part of Moldava wants to join EU/NATO and potentially Romania(which is part of NATO) is Russia supposed to just let that happen? How can territory with a Russian garrison Moldava doesn't physically control become part of a nuclear armed anti Russian alliance? I don't understand how one can possibly perceive that as Russian aggression? They already have controlled the territory they're being accused of trying to steal for 30 years?

Understanding history of both Russian Empire and USSR is critical to understanding Russian perspective. The conflicts in the caucuses have been happening hundreds of years.

I'm only taking the time to try and convince you because I believe you are reasonable and open to convincing I usually do not bother on this thread.

I'm not reading past the second paragraph because it's full of lies. Russia instigated and invented the whole separatist movement in DPR LNR. Saying they didn't come in until later is a bold faced lie.

Gross, started the third paragraph and it's another whopper of lies. The Crimean peninsula was original full of Crimean tartars that Russians genocide with forced migration. Jesus man. Can you be any more wrong.

 

[Ruthless Ryan]

Well, Russia military sucks, right?
Their Army is crap, and their tanks are crap. Their Air Force is crap, and their planes are crap. Their Navy is crap, and their ships and submarines are crap. Why should their nuclear arsenal be any different? Their ICBMs can't fly. If they fly, it won't be very far. It can't hit its target. If it does, their warhead won't explode. If it does, oh well. Less than 10% chance Russian nukes will hit their target and go off as planned. Zelensky and Biden think that is a risk worth taking. I mean, the numbers are in our favor, right? What is the worst thing that could happen? Let's nuke Russia and end this conflict.

Just another load of complete non sense.

 

[SandisLL]

I'll get on that. Looks like a 6 star Belarusian hotel, definitely not a camp bed in a tent....

It does looks like after vodka degustation session together with Medvedev or Lukashenko. No joke here, these gentlemans might bear far more vodka than prigi....

 

[Hog-train]

Apparently Ukraine lost 20% of their equipment during the early counter offensive so far. This is committed equipment - not total equipment.