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International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V12
- Thread starter Strychnine
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https://archive.is/epfji
Found the part about "We built up this mountain of steel for the counteroffensive. We can’t do that again,” according to some usa official interesting basically as good as it gets aid wise if the mysterious unknown official is correct or if he exists at all
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So went to volunteer reddit and apperantly volunteer legion might be downsizing due to headache and problems to ukrainians and too many non professional people
Interesting thread recommend reading, funny stories about fentanyl addicts, rambos and corrupt people
Most serious people join ukrainian units like ukrainian marines for example according to thread
Interesting thread recommend reading, funny stories about fentanyl addicts, rambos and corrupt people
Most serious people join ukrainian units like ukrainian marines for example according to thread
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Aside from loyalty these guys have lost their living. I'd be pissed off too.
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I saw some earlier "reports" that wagnerites in Belarus are mobilizing and moving towards Russia. They might have another coup on their hands...
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Clean PR and clickbait.
West had supplied Ukraine with delays and NEVER in ammounts had been asked for. Also clean silent denial without direct words is denial to help ....
For example after some batch with German politicians had found that they does have these old Taurus missiles....
Now rumoured bullshit for mass media is that some politicians wants them to be " degraded " before they might be sent to Ukr.
Also I don't trust that only 150 from 600 these missiles are usable.
Most likely ALL of them while ofc it isn't new stuff....
Israel and Switzerland doesn't allow to send any part of weapons or ammuntion for Ukr.
They usually always are using clauses in weapons sales contracts that they does have right not to allow re export withoht additonal permit from them.
OK, Estonia in some cases doesn't have such clause, in some cases does have, when stuff is from Israel.
They however definitely will not go against Knesset.
Therefore they had supplied anti tank missiles they had purchased from U.S and 0 from these they had purchased from Israel.
Latvian authorities looks that had disabled some ( most likely terrorists ) cell. All stuff shows that most likely cell was very well financed. 14 mortgage properties had been searched and some batch with suspects had been placed in prison cells.
Suspects had rented apartments, flats and garages +warehouses and also had worked with trolls farms networks.
Suspects had rented apartments, flats and garages +warehouses and also had worked with trolls farms networks.
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I put the WSJ article below in the spoiler.
U.S., Ukraine Clash Over Counteroffensive Strategy
https://archive.is/epfji#selection-165.5-165.55
U.S., Ukraine Clash Over Counteroffensive Strategy
https://archive.is/epfji#selection-165.5-165.55
Kyiv’s forces can still break through Russia defenses, but time is running out, Washington officials say
By
Michael R. Gordon ,
Gordon Lubold ,
James Marson and
Vivian Salama
Aug. 24, 2023 7:41 am ET
U.S. and Ukrainian officials have been engaged in an intense behind-the-scenes debate for weeks over the strategy and tactics for reviving Kyiv’s slow-moving counteroffensive.
American military officials have been urging the Ukrainians to return to the combined arms training they received at allied bases in Europe by concentrating their forces to try to bust through Russia defenses and push to the Sea of Azov.
Kyiv has made some adjustments in recent weeks, but the two sides are still at odds about how to turn the tables on the Russians in the limited time they have before winter sets in.
“You don’t understand the nature of this conflict,” Gen. Valery Zaluzhny, the commander of the Ukrainian armed forces, the Ukrainian commander, responded in one interaction with the Americans, a U.S. official recounted. “This is not counterinsurgency. This is Kursk,” the commander added, referring to the major World War II battle between Germany and the Soviet Union.
A spokesman for the Ukrainian commander didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.
Ukrainian servicemen firing launch rocket systems toward Russian troops near a front line in the Zaporizhzhia region.
PHOTO: VIACHESLAV RATYNSKYI/REUTERS
The American advice is based on the calculation that the surge of equipment the U.S. has funneled to Ukraine—more than $43 billion in weaponry has been committed over the years—is enough for this offensive and is unlikely to be repeated at anywhere near the same level in 2024.
“We built up this mountain of steel for the counteroffensive. We can’t do that again,” one former U.S. official said. “It doesn’t exist.”
It isn’t too late for Ukraine to make gains, according to U.S. officials.
Ukrainian commanders also say that time hasn’t yet run out on their counteroffensive, and Zaluzhny has told U.S. officials his forces are on the cusp of a breakthrough.
Yet deep divisions over the strategy linger. The U.S. for the past several weeks has urged the Ukrainians to mass their forces and concentrate in an area north of Tokmak in the south to push through the first line of Russian defenses, generally acknowledged as the toughest line to break.
While there are differing views within the U.S. government, one official said that Washington has conveyed “serious frustration” with Ukraine’s strategy, particularly President Volodymyr Zelensky’s focus on Bakhmut, which some Ukrainian officers see as useful to build morale and create a buffer zone in the east.
After U.S. officials cautioned against dissipating their efforts, the Ukrainians adjusted their strategy and went on the defensive in the eastern part of Zaporizhzhia. That change has enabled the Ukrainians to conserve their forces for the main attack elsewhere and limit their expenditure of artillery.
But U.S. officials say the Ukrainians are still spread too thin for a concentrated push south with numerous brigades deployed in the east and are still not combining the use of artillery, mechanized units and mine-clearing efforts.
Holding casualties to a minimum is needed to preserve their longer-term fighting potential, the Ukrainians say. But U.S. officials say the Ukrainians’ small-unit attacks on narrow fronts slow the offensive and give the Russians more opportunity to respond, including with mines that are dispensed through artillery strikes and units armed with rocket-propelled grenades.
The current state of play has sparked worries that Ukraine’s fight against Russia might be entering a stalemate, a contention President Biden’s national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, has denied.
“No, we do not assess that the conflict is a stalemate,” Sullivan told reporters Tuesday. The battlefield, he said, is changing every day.
At the heart of the debate between Washington and Kyiv is the U.S.-provided combined arms training the Ukrainians have received in recent months that was intended to prepare them for their offensive in the south.
WSJ explains how Russia created one of the largest minefields in the world in the occupied regions, and their impact on Kyiv’s counteroffensive. Photo: Ignacio Marin/Anadolu Agency/Getty Images
The U.S. and its partners have trained more than 70,000 Ukrainian soldiers at more than 40 training areas. But the crux of the U.S. combined arms training in Germany was on 14 motorized-infantry, mechanized and national-guard battalions—some 8,000 troops—who were to push through Russia’s lines or secure terrain.
The 12-week training program for those battalions included instruction on using their artillery, mechanized units and infantry together. It culminated in a weeklong battalion-level exercise with Ukrainian forces squared off against a mock adversary played by U.S. forces.
Two additional battalions, one national guard and one armored, are also undergoing training. The latter is equipped with 31 Abrams tanks and will be deployed in the fall along with armored vehicles to breach minefields and combat engineering equipment, said Col. Martin O’Donnell, a U.S. Army spokesman in Europe.
The training is intended to enable Ukrainian forces to break through their foe’s defenses and maneuver in the Russians’ rear area, but without the advantages the U.S. military has long enjoyed, especially air power.
Ukraine has only a small air force, and the delivery of American-made F-16s isn’t expected until mid to late 2024. While U.S. officials say that simulations indicated that the Ukrainians could succeed anyway, some in the Pentagon acknowledge the challenge.
Christine Wormuth, the U.S. Army secretary, said recently that the U.S. military would find this sort of fighting challenging, particularly if they didn’t have air superiority and the adversary had time to prepare its defenses. “Our soldiers have years to practice this, and the Ukrainians had several weeks to work on this,” she said.
Some former officials say that the Pentagon’s frustration with the pace of the Ukrainian attack is misplaced.
A volunteer from the U.S. who calls himself ‘Jackie,’ with Ukrainian volunteers after training them on the outskirts of Kyiv.
PHOTO: BRAM JANSSEN/ASSOCIATED PRESS
A Ukrainian serviceman inside a fighting vehicle at a position near a front line in the Zaporizhzhia region.
PHOTO: SERHII NUZHNENKO/REUTERS
“When America fights with combined arms, it fights with battlefield air superiority,” said Philip Breedlove, a retired U.S. Air Force general who served as the North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s top military commander from 2013 to 2016.
“Ukraine doesn’t have that. Nor have we given Ukraine long-range precise artillery,” he added. “So when there is all this talk that they are failing with combined arms, we need to look in the mirror.”
Some Ukrainian soldiers who have been fighting from the beginning of the war expressed frustration that the tanks and armored vehicles had been given to newly formed units that include soldiers with little or no combat experience. The share of Ukrainian soldiers in the U.S.-trained battalions who have previous combat experience varies from about 50% to 70%, U.S. officials say.
Others say the reality of fighting on first contact with the enemy shocked them. One soldier from the 47th Brigade recounted an assault on a Russian trench, the company’s first infantry engagement in real war, which was against one of the best-fortified lines that Russia has in all of Ukraine.
“However tough exercises were, it’s much harder” in reality, the soldier said.
Defending its approach, Kyiv argues that its slow offensive is still playing out on the ground. On Tuesday, Ukrainian forces retook Robotyne, a village on the road south that lies just north of Russia’s main defensive line.
The assault on the village was led by a unit that has honed its tactics since the start of the war, first targeting enemy fortifications using artillery directed by drones, then sending in assault teams on foot.
“It’s a small victory,” Maj. Yuriy Harkaviy, the unit’s commander, wrote in a message. “Larger ones are ahead. My goal is the Azov.”
Write to Michael R. Gordon at [email protected], Gordon Lubold at [email protected], James Marson at [email protected] and Vivian Salama at [email protected]
By
Michael R. Gordon ,
Gordon Lubold ,
James Marson and
Vivian Salama
Aug. 24, 2023 7:41 am ET
U.S. and Ukrainian officials have been engaged in an intense behind-the-scenes debate for weeks over the strategy and tactics for reviving Kyiv’s slow-moving counteroffensive.
American military officials have been urging the Ukrainians to return to the combined arms training they received at allied bases in Europe by concentrating their forces to try to bust through Russia defenses and push to the Sea of Azov.
Kyiv has made some adjustments in recent weeks, but the two sides are still at odds about how to turn the tables on the Russians in the limited time they have before winter sets in.
“You don’t understand the nature of this conflict,” Gen. Valery Zaluzhny, the commander of the Ukrainian armed forces, the Ukrainian commander, responded in one interaction with the Americans, a U.S. official recounted. “This is not counterinsurgency. This is Kursk,” the commander added, referring to the major World War II battle between Germany and the Soviet Union.
A spokesman for the Ukrainian commander didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.
Ukrainian servicemen firing launch rocket systems toward Russian troops near a front line in the Zaporizhzhia region.
PHOTO: VIACHESLAV RATYNSKYI/REUTERS
The American advice is based on the calculation that the surge of equipment the U.S. has funneled to Ukraine—more than $43 billion in weaponry has been committed over the years—is enough for this offensive and is unlikely to be repeated at anywhere near the same level in 2024.
“We built up this mountain of steel for the counteroffensive. We can’t do that again,” one former U.S. official said. “It doesn’t exist.”
It isn’t too late for Ukraine to make gains, according to U.S. officials.
Ukrainian commanders also say that time hasn’t yet run out on their counteroffensive, and Zaluzhny has told U.S. officials his forces are on the cusp of a breakthrough.
Yet deep divisions over the strategy linger. The U.S. for the past several weeks has urged the Ukrainians to mass their forces and concentrate in an area north of Tokmak in the south to push through the first line of Russian defenses, generally acknowledged as the toughest line to break.
While there are differing views within the U.S. government, one official said that Washington has conveyed “serious frustration” with Ukraine’s strategy, particularly President Volodymyr Zelensky’s focus on Bakhmut, which some Ukrainian officers see as useful to build morale and create a buffer zone in the east.
After U.S. officials cautioned against dissipating their efforts, the Ukrainians adjusted their strategy and went on the defensive in the eastern part of Zaporizhzhia. That change has enabled the Ukrainians to conserve their forces for the main attack elsewhere and limit their expenditure of artillery.
But U.S. officials say the Ukrainians are still spread too thin for a concentrated push south with numerous brigades deployed in the east and are still not combining the use of artillery, mechanized units and mine-clearing efforts.
Holding casualties to a minimum is needed to preserve their longer-term fighting potential, the Ukrainians say. But U.S. officials say the Ukrainians’ small-unit attacks on narrow fronts slow the offensive and give the Russians more opportunity to respond, including with mines that are dispensed through artillery strikes and units armed with rocket-propelled grenades.
The current state of play has sparked worries that Ukraine’s fight against Russia might be entering a stalemate, a contention President Biden’s national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, has denied.
“No, we do not assess that the conflict is a stalemate,” Sullivan told reporters Tuesday. The battlefield, he said, is changing every day.
At the heart of the debate between Washington and Kyiv is the U.S.-provided combined arms training the Ukrainians have received in recent months that was intended to prepare them for their offensive in the south.
WSJ explains how Russia created one of the largest minefields in the world in the occupied regions, and their impact on Kyiv’s counteroffensive. Photo: Ignacio Marin/Anadolu Agency/Getty Images
The U.S. and its partners have trained more than 70,000 Ukrainian soldiers at more than 40 training areas. But the crux of the U.S. combined arms training in Germany was on 14 motorized-infantry, mechanized and national-guard battalions—some 8,000 troops—who were to push through Russia’s lines or secure terrain.
The 12-week training program for those battalions included instruction on using their artillery, mechanized units and infantry together. It culminated in a weeklong battalion-level exercise with Ukrainian forces squared off against a mock adversary played by U.S. forces.
Two additional battalions, one national guard and one armored, are also undergoing training. The latter is equipped with 31 Abrams tanks and will be deployed in the fall along with armored vehicles to breach minefields and combat engineering equipment, said Col. Martin O’Donnell, a U.S. Army spokesman in Europe.
The training is intended to enable Ukrainian forces to break through their foe’s defenses and maneuver in the Russians’ rear area, but without the advantages the U.S. military has long enjoyed, especially air power.
Ukraine has only a small air force, and the delivery of American-made F-16s isn’t expected until mid to late 2024. While U.S. officials say that simulations indicated that the Ukrainians could succeed anyway, some in the Pentagon acknowledge the challenge.
Christine Wormuth, the U.S. Army secretary, said recently that the U.S. military would find this sort of fighting challenging, particularly if they didn’t have air superiority and the adversary had time to prepare its defenses. “Our soldiers have years to practice this, and the Ukrainians had several weeks to work on this,” she said.
Some former officials say that the Pentagon’s frustration with the pace of the Ukrainian attack is misplaced.
A volunteer from the U.S. who calls himself ‘Jackie,’ with Ukrainian volunteers after training them on the outskirts of Kyiv.
PHOTO: BRAM JANSSEN/ASSOCIATED PRESS
A Ukrainian serviceman inside a fighting vehicle at a position near a front line in the Zaporizhzhia region.
PHOTO: SERHII NUZHNENKO/REUTERS
“When America fights with combined arms, it fights with battlefield air superiority,” said Philip Breedlove, a retired U.S. Air Force general who served as the North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s top military commander from 2013 to 2016.
“Ukraine doesn’t have that. Nor have we given Ukraine long-range precise artillery,” he added. “So when there is all this talk that they are failing with combined arms, we need to look in the mirror.”
Some Ukrainian soldiers who have been fighting from the beginning of the war expressed frustration that the tanks and armored vehicles had been given to newly formed units that include soldiers with little or no combat experience. The share of Ukrainian soldiers in the U.S.-trained battalions who have previous combat experience varies from about 50% to 70%, U.S. officials say.
Others say the reality of fighting on first contact with the enemy shocked them. One soldier from the 47th Brigade recounted an assault on a Russian trench, the company’s first infantry engagement in real war, which was against one of the best-fortified lines that Russia has in all of Ukraine.
“However tough exercises were, it’s much harder” in reality, the soldier said.
Defending its approach, Kyiv argues that its slow offensive is still playing out on the ground. On Tuesday, Ukrainian forces retook Robotyne, a village on the road south that lies just north of Russia’s main defensive line.
The assault on the village was led by a unit that has honed its tactics since the start of the war, first targeting enemy fortifications using artillery directed by drones, then sending in assault teams on foot.
“It’s a small victory,” Maj. Yuriy Harkaviy, the unit’s commander, wrote in a message. “Larger ones are ahead. My goal is the Azov.”
Write to Michael R. Gordon at [email protected], Gordon Lubold at [email protected], James Marson at [email protected] and Vivian Salama at [email protected]
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- They're gonna get executed!
They will become the modern day 47 ronins. Cant wait to Hollyweird version, that will incluse diversity and paint Wagner as heroes.
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- The Kremlin dismisses rumours that Russia ordered the assassination of Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin, who reportedly died in a plane crash, as an “absolute lie”.
- The UK Ministry of Defence says while there is no definite proof Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin was on board the crashed plane, it is highly likely he is dead.
- Russia claims to have downed a barrage of 42 Ukrainian drones near Crimea, the largest alleged recent air attack on the annexed peninsula.
- Ukraine removes the head of its State Emergency Service, Serhiy Kruk, following an internal inspection of the agency.
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Well if true...they probably shouldn't stop halfway. I think Vlad has shown that once you go down that road there's no "takebacks". You either go all the way or you don't even start.
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True, but I’m not sure a march to Moscow is realistic. Hopefully some major sabotage and mysterious fires can take place. A lot of damage can be done within Russia.
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And to think,
Just a few months ago we were all laughing at the Russians for digging trenches on the beaches in Crimea..
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