International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V10

[SandisLL]

The question is...
Why does Ukraine need to be in NATO, and does anyone with a sane mind think that threatening to bring them in, and thus potentially place nuclear missiles on Russias backyard would ever be tolerated by them??

This entire narrative is evil and misguided, Ukrainians are pawns and their civilians are dying over a cause that doesn't need to be and won't ever likely will.

NATO countries are safer without Ukraine in it, and forcing Russias hand and pushing us to the brink of WW3 Armageddon is not a way to make the world a safer more peaceful place.

Facts

LOL.
Shut off.
No one wanted to see them nor in EU nor NATO.
You don't know bare 0,0001 about european political real scene.

You look like commenator on payroll to earn for a living.

 

[Limbo Pete]

The question is...
Why does Ukraine need to be in NATO, and does anyone with a sane mind think that threatening to bring them in, and thus potentially place nuclear missiles on Russias backyard would ever be tolerated by them??

This entire narrative is evil and misguided, Ukrainians are pawns and their civilians are dying over a cause that doesn't need to be and won't ever likely will.

NATO countries are safer without Ukraine in it, and forcing Russias hand and pushing us to the brink of WW3 Armageddon is not a way to make the world a safer more peaceful place.

Facts

Well if Ukraine was in NATO, Russia wouldn't have invaded them and none of this would be happening.

 

[TheMaster]

Yes he did - multiple times. He even told Bush years ago that Ukraine wasn't a real country. Putin indicated multiples times he eventually wanted Ukraine.

Ukraine applied for NATO in 2008 and got rejected. Then after that, they repeatedly said they had no plans of joining. According to polls conducted between 2005 and 2013, Ukrainian public support of NATO membership remained low.

Ukraine's parliament literally passed a law that rejected any ambition to join NATO in 2010.

https://www.bbc.com/news/10229626

Only after Putin took Crimea in 2014 did they start saying they will join again.

The claims that Putin only wanted Ukraine due to the West's meddling and them joining NATO is propaganda and an excuse. Putin either wanted Ukraine or have them as a client state like Belarus.

I think you will find that in 2017, their parliament declared a priority to join NATO

https://www.defensenews.com/global/...restores-nato-membership-as-strategic-target/

By my numbers, Russia invaded 5 years later in 2022

Ok let's take that as gospel for arguments sake. So Russia's response is to invade Ukraine before they can become a proper NATO member? And you wonder why Ukraine are now desperate to become part of NATO. Russia's actions have now pushed Sweden and Finland to join NATO too. Russia apparently felt threatened by the possibility of Ukraine becoming part of NATO but by their own actions they've forced two far more dangerous adversaries into NATO swelling it's ranks.

And Ukraine will inevitably join NATO. In fact if anything it's just fast-tracked Ukraines admission into NATO. Consequently Russia will now have another 2400 miles of land border to defend it's already overstretched Western flank and seriously neutered it's military defensive capabilities for at least the next 3 decades.

IF NATO were a serious threat to the safety of the Russian state, Putin has just made it infinitely worse for his nation with his stunning display of geo-political and military ineptitude.

Yes indeed, it may we'll have backfired on them. But it's doesn't change what I stated previously.

LOL.
Shut off.
No one wanted to see them nor in EU nor NATO.
You don't know bare 0,0001 about european political real scene.

You look like commenator on payroll to earn for a living.

One day, after 20,000 posts, your English may reach primary school level. This is our hope.

 

[Hog-train]

I think you will find that in 2017, their parliament declared a priority to join NATO

https://www.defensenews.com/global/...restores-nato-membership-as-strategic-target/

By my numbers, Russia invaded 5 years later in 2022

They took Crimea by force in 2014. The intention to join NATO again was a response to that.

Shouldn't you get the bare minimum of facts before commenting on this topic?

 

[Rod1]

I think you will find that in 2017, their parliament declared a priority to join NATO

In 2017 Russia has already invaded Ukraine, taking over Crimea and supporting separatists with troops in the Donbass.

 

[Limbo Pete]

They took Crimea by force in 2014. The intention to join NATO again was a response to that.

Shouldn't you get the bare minimum of facts before commenting on this topic?

No no, Crimea was full of Russians already, it was really theirs they just quietly "took" what already belonged to them. Certainly not an invasion, etc etc. Also Ukraine had it coming. Or something. Insert comment about ethnic Russians being tied to poles and "brutalized" by the nazis.

 

[TheMaster]

They took Crimea by force in 2014. The intention to join NATO again was a response to that.

I think you'll find that that's a separate issue that is much more complex.
Crimea was historically part of Russia, gifted to Ukraine only 60 years ago as a mark of celebration on Ukraine-Russian unity.
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/why-did-russia-give-away-crimea-sixty-years-ago

As I said they showed no intent to invade Ukraine until Ukraine declared that they wanted to join NATO in it's entirety.

A clearly unacceptable situation for the Russians. Plenty of people saw this coming for this reason.
And NATO had been expanding steadily East long, long before that. It got to their red line which was Ukraine.
Not hard to understand.

 

[Hog-train]

I think you'll find that that's a separate issue that is much more complex.
Crimea was historically part of Russia, gifted to Ukraine only 60 years ago as a mark of celebration on Ukraine-Russian unity.
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/why-did-russia-give-away-crimea-sixty-years-ago

Yea so it's theirs. According to your standards, Russia has a right to Latvia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Georgia, Estonia, and every other former Soviet Republic. Russia is clearly violating the sovereignty of other nations. Stop being a Russian shill.

 

[Denter]

I think you'll find that that's a separate issue that is much more complex.
Crimea was historically part of Russia, gifted to Ukraine only 60 years ago as a mark of celebration on Ukraine-Russian unity.
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/why-did-russia-give-away-crimea-sixty-years-ago

As I said they showed no intent to invade Ukraine until Ukraine declared that they wanted to join NATO in it's entirety.

A clearly unacceptable situation for the Russians. Plenty of people saw this coming for this reason.

Regardless of how any of us feel about this, we cannot say that Russia did not telegraph all of this for many years, often openly saying that this would result in military conflict. I think the bottom line is that they believe in 19th century style "spheres of influence" wheras we do not.

 

[Limbo Pete]

Yea so it's theirs. According to your standards, Russia has a right to Latvia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Georgia, Estonia, and every other former Soviet Republic. Stop being a Russian shill.

Bruh didn't you know that Ukraine's existence is a gift from Russia? They should be grateful.
It's like these guys are reading a script. Seriously, you could set your watch to it. The same garbage day in and day out.

 

[GhostZ06]

 

[7even]

No no, Crimea was full of Russians already, it was really theirs they just quietly "took" what already belonged to them. Certainly not an invasion, etc etc. Also Ukraine had it coming. Or something. Insert comment about ethnic Russians being tied to poles and "brutalized" by the nazis.

I guess Texas and California is full of Mexicans and it’s already theres.

 

[Limbo Pete]

I guess Texas and California is full of Mexicans and it’s already theres.

These regions were all just gifts from Mexico so really we should be grateful and make sure not to abuse them lest the gift be taken back. Or something. Oh look i've gone cross eyed.

 

[Strychnine]

But but Big Serge said that Vuhledar and whole southeastern front is about to collapse.

Someone also got a batch of FPV drones.



Excaliburs have been doing a lot of work in the south lately.

Big Surge needs to reevaluate.

 

[TheMaster]

Yea so it's theirs. According to your standards, Russia has a right to Latvia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Georgia, Estonia, and every other former Soviet Republic. Russia is clearly violating the sovereignty of other nations. Stop being a Russian shill.

Thankfully, it's people like me and people who think like me that will save us from self destruction.
You can only push so far before there is pushback.

NATO is finding out what Russia's red line is, after decades of expaning further and further to their borders.
Ukraine is the unfortunate victim in this.

 

[Limbo Pete]

Hand to god, you can set your watch to them lol

 

[Rod1]

NATO is finding out what Russia's red line is, after decades of expaning further and further to their borders.
Ukraine is the unfortunate victim in this.

Russian also found about NATO redline.

Two worlds collide, rival nations
It's a primitive clash, venting years of frustrations
Bravely we hope against all hope, there is so much at stake
Seems our freedom's up against the ropes
Does the crowd understand?
Is it a East vs. West, or man against man

Two alien cultures that would eventually clash, i guess Russia and the neorealists were right, might makes right and this confrontation was inevitable.

I hope you guys find a way to cope, but the West is stronger, should respect Great Powers.


<[analyzed}>

 

[Strychnine]

 

[GhostZ06]

 

[Ruthless Ryan]

I think you'll find that that's a separate issue that is much more complex.
Crimea was historically part of Russia, gifted to Ukraine only 60 years ago as a mark of celebration on Ukraine-Russian unity.
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/why-did-russia-give-away-crimea-sixty-years-ago

As I said they showed no intent to invade Ukraine until Ukraine declared that they wanted to join NATO in it's entirety.

A clearly unacceptable situation for the Russians. Plenty of people saw this coming for this reason.
And NATO had been expanding steadily East long, long before that. It got to their red line which was Ukraine.
Not hard to understand.

I thought the invasion was for denazification? And what the Bio lab?