Russia and China soon signing Energy Deal to build Pipeline

[Rusk]

This came up in another thread that with Europe trying to move away from Russian gas, the Chinese knew they basically had Russia in a vice. I'm sure they got a really good deal.

russian news reported that it is the same as Europe, when it comes to price

 

[Rusk]

Lol pretty crappy you say, yet look at what they've been doing in the Ukraine, Georgia, and other regions that will undoubtedly follow. This demonstrates a level of coordination, efficiency, and centralization of power and the respect and obedience of troops and citizens stemming from that, that is quite frankly not very common, especially when one brings up the fact that Russia took the Southeast and Crimea without spilling blood. That is very impressive and whatever arguments you use simply can't argue against it. Their military might not be as good as the united states', but what country's is? It's very clear that their intelligence gathering capabilities are top notch, they have powerful friends, HUGE energy reserves and manpower, they have nukes, and the Russian character has a legendary will that ultimately not just survives, but prospers. These are all historical facts, but please continue in saying that Russia is irrelevant and weak on the global scale. It's quite amusing.

Russia is obviously getting stronger militarily, and it seems to me that they finally going for quality and not quantity (fucking Stalin and his slave army...:icon_lol. BUT russian economy is still too weak to get into any conflict on global scale, a war with Iraq would probably bleed Russia dry after 1 year. So economically they are a regional power, imo.

 

[Denter]

Russia is obviously getting stronger militarily, and it seems to me that they finally going for quality and not quantity (fucking Stalin and his slave army...:icon_lol. BUT russian economy is still too weak to get into any conflict on global scale, a war with Iraq would probably bleed Russia dry after 1 year. So economically they are a regional power, imo.

Without oil and gas, Russia would be like Angola (with white people and nukes).

But seriously, yes, the army is getting better, but Russia still cannot project power beyond its immediate border.

 

[Bumble_Bee_Tuna]

Again, nuclear weapons do not make you a superpower. Influence makes you a superpower, and Putin couldn't influence his own arse cheeks. I don't feel the need to further address this stupid notion that nuclear weapons make you a superpower.

The yuan,

 

[Ishaq]

So now the definition of superpower changes to "influence." If influence is the definition, the U.S. certainly seems to be on the losing end as it could not influence anything of recent history without the use of force, deception and subterfuge. Its vaunted "soft-power" was vastly over-estimated, even politically, as Russia and China have both shrugged of the neoliberal democratic model. It appears Russia has quite convincingly influenced its peripheral states such Crimea, without even firing a shot, to resist the US-led IMF shock therapy in the form of austerity that is about the besiege that country. When is the last time the U.S. did that?

No, the definition hasn't changed. A superpower is a state with an unparalelled ability to exert influence or project power on a global scale and often in mutiple places at the same time. This can only be done through diplomatic channels(soft power), militarily or via economic pressure. Russia can barely manage any of this on a regional scale, nevermind a global scale.

Also the events in Ukraine are not an example of Russian softpower. They are an indictment of Russian weakness in that NATO and the US can play Game of Thrones in your backyard, cause havoc, and all you can do is save your lousy military base. Is this the superpower you speak of, that can barely project influence and power on Kiev yet you think it can project influence and power on a global scale?

This is almost as laughable as you propping up the Yuan for its mesmerising 8% share of international trade.

Furthermore, austerity is not a bad thing. It is a bitter pill that needs to be swallowed for future benefit. The sooner a country in crisis takes it, the better. This is why, the Western world are the richest nations on earth with amongst the highest standards of living, quality of life, and infrastructure, whilst Eastern Europe is a complete shithole bearing the scars left behind by your failed Soviet Union whose collapse it would appear you still cannot get over.

 

[ElKarlo]

Russia has always been a world power. Good for them though.

Need to have a stable birthrate though. Yes it is rising but it is still under 2

 

[ElKarlo]

Russia is obviously getting stronger militarily, and it seems to me that they finally going for quality and not quantity (fucking Stalin and his slave army...:icon_lol. BUT russian economy is still too weak to get into any conflict on global scale, a war with Iraq would probably bleed Russia dry after 1 year. So economically they are a regional power, imo.

A first rate power IMHO. Russia canbully iit's neighbors. Just lacks the real economy as you said. Also needs more power projection

 

[Factory]

russia is over-rated

I would say they are rather underrated

 

[Factory]

so because Russia is building a pipeline with a private company they are once again a superpower?

I think you are overestimating Russia. Their growth rate slowed to less than 1% per quarter, hardly an indication of a booming economy.

The problem I have with this is there is no detail. What price is China paying for the gas? I'll put money on it that it is shitload less than Ukraine.

yes, but as far as the resource sector is concerned, they are a superpower for sure.

And if you have power in the energy area, you possess a form of pressure, which shouldn

 

[ElKarlo]

yes, but as far as the resource sector is concerned, they are a superpower for sure.

And if you have power in the energy area, you possess a form of pressure, which shouldn

 

[Thanos]

looks like the Russian ppl need some freedom

 

[IGIT]

This came up in another thread that with Europe trying to move away from Russian gas, the Chinese knew they basically had Russia in a vice. I'm sure they got a really good deal.

hullo Denter,

BEIJING — President Xi Jinping of China and the Russian leader, Vladimir V. Putin, were unable to announce an agreement on a natural gas deal on Tuesday, despite high expectations that mutual political interests would help finally push through the project.

...China was in no hurry to sign a deal, said Shoichi Itoh, a senior analyst at the Institute of Energy Economics in Tokyo. “China already has enough gas from Central Asia, and now Myanmar, until the mid-2020s,” he said. “Unless Russia made a compromise on price, China has no reason to sign it.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/21/world/asia/china-russia.html?hp

the Chinese aren't really that easy to do business with - they know they have the cards and they really hold your feet to the fire, something US corporations have learned.

Putin is now learning this also.

no deal thus far.

with China expanding its reach in the South China Sea and pushing onward with its deep sea drilling coupled with its relatively robust economy, they can wait...but Russia can't. like someone else noted, without the money from fossil fuel exports, they'll swirl down the toilet in a big hurry.

Putin, on the other hand, doesn't want to squander all this political capital he has amassed via the annexation of Crimea by taking it up the arse from China.

i'm curious to see how this all plays out.

- IGIT

 

[Bumble_Bee_Tuna]

No, the definition hasn't changed. A superpower is a state with an unparalelled ability to exert influence or project power on a global scale and often in mutiple places at the same time. This can only be done through diplomatic channels(soft power), militarily or via economic pressure. Russia can barely manage any of this on a regional scale, nevermind a global scale.

Also the events in Ukraine are not an example of Russian softpower. They are an indictment of Russian weakness in that NATO and the US can play Game of Thrones in your backyard, cause havoc, and all you can do is save your lousy military base. Is this the superpower you speak of, that can barely project influence and power on Kiev yet you think it can project influence and power on a global scale?

This is almost as laughable as you propping up the Yuan for its mesmerising 8% share of international trade.

Furthermore, austerity is not a bad thing. It is a bitter pill that needs to be swallowed for future benefit. The sooner a country in crisis takes it, the better. This is why, the Western world are the richest nations on earth with amongst the highest standards of living, quality of life, and infrastructure, whilst Eastern Europe is a complete shithole bearing the scars left behind by your failed Soviet Union whose collapse it would appear you still cannot get over.

By that logic the U.S. is not a superpower since its influence has hardly been a success story in the different places it has touched. In fact, one can argue just the opposite of your stance - namely that, the U.S. empire has had a series of unsuccessful global adventures where things just do not go as planned. I would also point out that your use of "soft-power" to reference the U.S. is inapplicable as the U.S. has forgotten what the art of diplomacy is. It's "influences" (if you can call it that) on a global scale (in reality we mean interventions) have all been driven through force, directly or indirectly (in the latter case via coups done through third parties). Also, "soft power" as initially described by Joseph Nye was meant something entirely different from what you're using it as. Furthermore, Joseph Nye's theory of "soft power" has proven to be unreliable and untrue. To quote (and by no means an endorsement of all his views) Kissinger's prot

 

[GhostZ06]

They have all the potential to be a superpower, but their econ just collapses under the weight of the demands. If they threw money into higher training/ed and made some serious mnfg and infrastructure, on top of having lots of kids, they'd be a super power. But that is a lot of ifs

putin throws it into military instead of education

 

[Kevin Rudd]

yes, but as far as the resource sector is concerned, they are a superpower for sure.

And if you have power in the energy area, you possess a form of pressure, which shouldn

 

[MicroBrew]

Furthermore, austerity is not a bad thing. It is a bitter pill that needs to be swallowed for future benefit. The sooner a country in crisis takes it, the better. This is why, the Western world are the richest nations on earth with amongst the highest standards of living, quality of life, and infrastructure, whilst Eastern Europe is a complete shithole bearing the scars left behind by your failed Soviet Union whose collapse it would appear you still cannot get over.

Western world is richest for a whole host of reasons; some reasons are: Free markets , Western Europe led the way in industrialisation , Colonisation far beyond Europe's shores, relatively free societies , lack of corruption relative to rest of the world , rule of law.

 

[Ishaq]

Western world is richest for a whole host of reasons; some reasons are: Free markets , Western Europe led the way in industrialisation , Colonisation far beyond Europe's shores, relatively free societies , lack of corruption relative to rest of the world , rule of law.

Sorry, I can see how it has come across as though I've said the West is rich because of austerity.

Lol, I meant Western nations are the richest because of their economic system. Eastern nations were and some still are generally poor, because of their shit economic systems(ultra statism and socialism) etc.

 

[Shartnado]

Russia is more American than America now

 

[Denter]

hullo Denter,

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/21/world/asia/china-russia.html?hp

the Chinese aren't really that easy to do business with - they know they have the cards and they really hold your feet to the fire, something US corporations have learned.

Putin is now learning this also.

no deal thus far.

with China expanding its reach in the South China Sea and pushing onward with its deep sea drilling coupled with its relatively robust economy, they can wait...but Russia can't. like someone else noted, without the money from fossil fuel exports, they'll swirl down the toilet in a big hurry.

Putin, on the other hand, doesn't want to squander all this political capital he has amassed via the annexation of Crimea by taking it up the arse from China.

i'm curious to see how this all plays out.

- IGIT

Good post. I'm sure the Russian media is lying about the price.

 

[Deleted member 457759]

for a country with such a significant amount of resources, their growth rate should be higher than what it actually is. In fact they should be experiencing a resource boom.

Think about what their growth rate would be if they didn't have those resources, they'd be in a recession without any doubt.

They are an economic basketcase and have no major industries outside of resources. From an economic standpoint, I'd go as far to say they are a banana republic.

I've been asking this question for a while now. Why in the hell isn't russia a super power? They have all the resources. I just don't get it. Do they even have a forestry industry? Because they have a lot of trees haha