Roy Nelson's jiu jitsu myth.

[ocfightfan]

Roy's problem is that he is a small HW and he loves to eat. He knows that most guys at the UFC level have enough defensive BJJ to turn fights into an ugly LnP contest. He discovered early in his UFC run that he has KO power and he fell in love with it. Sadly now everyone now sees it coming, and he is between a rock and a hard place on developing his other striking skills to set it up. Whenever he tries other striking techniques he looks like he is going to tumble over because of the belly. However he can't lose too much fat to be more athletic because he will lose the padding that keeps him from dieing when other HW's hit him. Roys not getting any younger and with all the abuse he's absorbed its only going to get worse.

 

[JohnBergman85]

at least he didn't say anything about your grammar.

My grammar is fine, especially for Sherdog. Plus I'm on no sleep, so I'm sure I'll f up a few posts

 

[Caicara]

I can't believe you really think this. My logic fails in this one.
You have huge knockout power and you are much better than your opponent standing, why would you go down with your back on the mat agaisnt a wrestler?
Jiu Jitsu is great to have, but you gotta use intelligence.
Besides that, judging Nelson by its weight is ridiculous. He should right overhand your jaw.

 

[caliboi74lv]

I'm inclined to agree.
He used to have above-average, even pretty good BJJ for a HW, but we haven't seen it in a very long time. I'd guess his grappling game has declined relative to the division...
or he knows that he'll lose more often than not against the top guys, but will make a lot more money, and have better job security giving the fans a slobber-knocker stand-up fight, rather than one fat, pale guy rolling around in a puddle sweat with a fellow slick pig.

Also, I don't think he was ever considered an absolute whizz on the ground, just that he had notable BJJ for a HW

Makes sense. I think he is kinda like Hendo, started to like that punching power and got away from using his ground game, Hendo with his wrestling. Plus looking at who he has fought, even tho he has a Black belt, maybe not sure he'd pull out a win with some JJ. There's some guys he's fought that could nullify his ground game, some I'm not sure about, because like Roy we don't see it with them either.
All good points. And crazy he had to do TUF, to get into the UFC. If he was able to smother his opponents or had done that, even win, Dana would have had a cow. I don't know their relationship now, but Dana or was BS, didn't like Roy.

 

[KONE]

No. I mentioned you being a white belt because, almost every new user is an idiot. You are also an idiot and just so happen to be a white belt, so that insult was easy to make.

Again no. I didn't defend him, I agree with him and I found enjoyment in busting you out, on YOUR lie. Had nothing to do with you belt status, crybaby.

What on earth are you even talking about?

He's saying Roy was sick for the Mir fight and that's the main reason he lost. Then I showed him Mir was also sick if not moreso than Roy (with the same exact illness) and he said "NO, MIR WASNT SICK FOR THE FIGHT AND HIS KNEE WAS HEALED BY THEN" when the article I literally just linked him to says the exact opposite. Mir was admittedly sick and had a nagging knee injury. His coach even said the plan was for Mir to try and finish early because his bronchitis was affecting his gank tank. It's all right there in the article I linked to.

He also lied and said "no one dominated anyone in that fight" even though it's pretty common knowledge Mir beat Nelson handily both on the clinch and on the ground, one of the judges gave him a 10-8 round. It wasn't close.

So again, where did I lie? And why are you so angry out of nowhere? Do low post counts on forums usually cause you to fly off the handle? Did you even read anything that transpired or did your seething fury at white belts cause you to skim over it entirely?

 

[KONE]

Lots of people reference that old BJJ match, where Roy eeked out a decision over Mir (a decision in a jiujitsu match);

But here is a little-known fact: they also fought another time in pure jiujitsu, within a year of that match, which was not filmed and put up on youtube, and Mir submitted Roy with a kimura.

Yep, Mir said the 2nd instance he just took Roy lightly because of how easily he beat him with the kimura the first time around.

You also saw the difference in the grappling in their MMA fight too, that's pretty important

 

[caliboi74lv]

Cau

Cause every bjj guy wants to be on there back on purpose,right?

Gi bjj and mma jj are two totally different styles.

Werdum says hi.
But no, i don't think anyone wants to be there..

 

[GangstaBoogie]

No. I mentioned you being a white belt because, almost every new user is an idiot. You are also an idiot and just so happen to be a white belt, so that insult was easy to make.

Again no. I didn't defend him, I agree with him and I found enjoyment in busting you out, on YOUR lie. Had nothing to do with you belt status, crybaby.

Thank god, that you came in, to this thread, to educate all these fools, on proper, MMA and belt color status. Without you, and your 1 million commas, I don't think, this thread could have gone, anywhere.

 

[Big_Chief_Stove]

Is this some kind of inside joke or an MMA myth?

I realise he's meant to have a black belt under Renzo Gracie, which may be the inside joke - hey, let's pretend a really fat guy is great at BJJ!
Really wouldn't surprise me.
But as far as I can see, he won a Grappler's Quest tournament once (whatever that is) and the best he ever did in Abu Dhabi was the quarter finals.

We keep hearing about how amazing he is at JJ but he never uses it. We've not seen it in the UFC. Ever.
So he's fighting a guy who just wants to take him down last night but is so confident in these JJ skills that he supposedly has, that he fights like a guy who has never been to the ground in his entire life and is terrified to going to the ground so much that he adopts a completely new stance.

I'm really not buying the 'I'd rather stand up and bang' nonsense.

'Kung-Fu fighter and BJJ black belt'. Hmmmm.

No he's legit on the ground, he prefers to stand and bang.

 

[Cooliox]

Werdum took his back in their fight and he looked pretty good defending it, so there's that.

haven't you read the amateur's guide to MMA? Good BJJ = submission wins, Good Wrestling = takedowns, Good Striking = Knockouts

 

[HaulParris]

I think that "BJJ black belt" is not as meaningful in today's MMA, compared to 20 years ago. Hughes, Horn, and Lyttle had awesome grappling / subs against tough competition, without a colorful piece of cloth to hold up their pants. To use an analogy, GSP outwrestled All-Americans without ever having been a collegiate, or even high-school wrestler.

Conversely, most Gracies (in the last 10 years or so) have not gotten very far (ditto for Vinny, with all due respect). Even Marcelo Garcia lost his MMA fight.

Guys like Maia, Werdum, and Jacare have found success because they're complete mixed martial artists, with grappling melded into their arsenal, a piece of their strategy, but not the entire strategy.

Nelson may have knockout power, and he may or may not have good subs, but he is NOT a complete mixed martial artist.

 

[Big_Chief_Stove]

Most fighters have ground skills, but we keep getting told he's this BJJ wonder who just chooses not to use it. After last night I'm not buying it.

Do your homework before starting a stupid threat again

 

[Big_Chief_Stove]

I think that "BJJ black belt" is not as meaningful in today's MMA, compared to 20 years ago. Hughes, Horn, and Lyttle had awesome grappling / subs against tough competition, without a colorful piece of cloth to hold up their pants. To use an analogy, GSP outwrestled All-Americans without ever having been a collegiate, or even high-school wrestler.

Conversely, most Gracies (in the last 10 years or so) have not gotten very far (ditto for Vinny, with all due respect). Even Marcelo Garcia lost his MMA fight.

Guys like Maia, Werdum, and Jacare have found success because they're complete mixed martial artists, with grappling melded into their arsenal, a piece of their strategy, but not the entire strategy.

Nelson may have knockout power, and he may or may not have good subs, but he is NOT a complete mixed martial artist.

Its all about the style of MMA also. Jacare has a very aggressive style and has great takedowns. Werdum is dangerous off of his back, Maia is just dangerous everywhere. I bet if Marcelo really put his heart into MMA, he would be a monster

 

[JohnBergman85]

What on earth are you even talking about?

He's saying Roy was sick for the Mir fight and that's the main reason he lost. Then I showed him Mir was also sick if not moreso than Roy (with the same exact illness) and he said "NO, MIR WASNT SICK FOR THE FIGHT AND HIS KNEE WAS HEALED BY THEN" when the article I literally just linked him to says the exact opposite. Mir was admittedly sick and had a nagging knee injury. His coach even said the plan was for Mir to try and finish early because his bronchitis was affecting his gank tank. It's all right there in the article I linked to.

He also lied and said "no one dominated anyone in that fight" even though it's pretty common knowledge Mir beat Nelson handily both on the clinch and on the ground, one of the judges gave him a 10-8 round. It wasn't close.

So again, where did I lie? And why are you so angry out of nowhere? Do low post counts on forums usually cause you to fly off the handle? Did you even read anything that transpired or did your seething fury at white belts cause you to skim over it entirely?

LOL Yeah I'm the mad one. Not the dude that just posted two paragraph's of pure butt-hurt . I did read the article and Swarthy is right. Mir's issues were BEFORE the fight, while Roy's was DURING. See the difference? I also watched the fight and again, he is right. I don't care what ONE judge saw, two judges, Swarthy and I all saw it differently. I'm sure if you keep crying about it, the outcome of the fight will change.

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

There isn't a need to get insulting, this is a conversation/debate, so calm down.
Yes i've seen that video.
Almost EVERY fighter has 'legit' BJJ skills these days.

I understand JJ and I just don't think Roy is very special at it. Last night was the perfect example to show his JJ skills, instead he took on a completely new stance because he was terrified of being taken down.
If you're that great at JJ and that comfortable with it, why would you adapt in such an extreme way?

People just need to stop talking about Roy Nelson like he's some kind of jiu-jitsu wizard who just chooses not to use it.

I think it's because despite being confident in his BJJ, Roy knows that Rosholt isn't some noob grappler. He is probably experienced enough to avoid being subbed, so there was little chance of Roy getting a win off his back. Rosholt is heavy on top and like you yourself said, most guys have "legit BJJ" these days, or at least counter-BJJ. Few guys would be able to submit Rosholt off their backs, but it doesn't necessarily mean their BJJ sucks. It just means Rosholt, like him or not, is a good grappler and not likely easily subbed.

 

[KONE]

Thank god, that you came in, to this thread, to educate all these fools, on proper, MMA and belt color status. Without you, and your 1 million commas, I don't think, this thread could have gone, anywhere.

Dude, you are, a, blue belt, so, you, can't, possibly know what, you are, talking, about.

LOL Yeah I'm the mad one. Not the dude that just posted two paragraph's of pure butt-hurt .

The amount of words used isn't directly correlated to someones supposed anger at all.

I did read the article and Swarthy is right. Mir's issues were BEFORE the fight, while Roy's was DURING. See the difference?

No, because you're lying just like he is:

>The Sunday before the event, he ended up with Bronchitis. His whole family was sick. The game plan in the fight was to go for it early, try and land some big shots and then pull off the gas pedal. We were worried about his breathing. Five days before the fight we had to stop practice because he had a panic attack and couldn't breathe. First time that's ever happened to him."

>Mir did score a sick knockout of Mirko Cro Cop in an otherwise horrible fight, as well as beat up on "Big Country" despite being far from 100 percent.

The nagging knee injury Mir has that affected him is also a reoccurring one that's had him pull out of multiple fights if you knew anything outside of scream-vomiting at people with a low post count on forums. He also almost pulled out of the Roy fight itself because of how bad his knee injury was, which you would know if you didn't lie just like the other guy did:

>ESPN.com has learned from Mir’s camp that a nagging knee injury forced him to miss two weeks in the middle of a 12-week training camp. The setback nearly forced him to pull out of the fight and ultimately prevented him from hitting his target weight of 252 pounds.

The only reason any of this was made public was because Roy used the illness excuse first, so Mir's camp came public with it

so yeah, Mir was sick and injured much like Roy was. Mir still beat him handily in the clinch and on the ground.

can you point out where I lied yet or are you still too busy moving the goal posts?

 

[campbecc]

Stop embarrassing yourself any further and admit that you don't know what you're talking about. You're like those last few Spartans walking into a wall of arrows somehow trying to win the war.

Thermopylae? You do know the greeks did win that war, largely because of the Spartans holding action and then by fighting to the last man they provided the example that united Greece for the first time.

But that said TS doesn't know what he is talking about.

 

[JohnBergman85]

Dude, you are, a, blue belt, so, you, can't, possibly know what, you are, talking, about.



The amount of words used isn't directly correlated to someones supposed anger at all.



No, because you're lying just like he is:

>The Sunday before the event, he ended up with Bronchitis. His whole family was sick. The game plan in the fight was to go for it early, try and land some big shots and then pull off the gas pedal. We were worried about his breathing. Five days before the fight we had to stop practice because he had a panic attack and couldn't breathe. First time that's ever happened to him."

>Mir did score a sick knockout of Mirko Cro Cop in an otherwise horrible fight, as well as beat up on "Big Country" despite being far from 100 percent.

The nagging knee injury Mir has that affected him is also a reoccurring one that's had him pull out of multiple fights if you knew anything outside of scream-vomiting at people with a low post count on forums. He also almost pulled out of the Roy fight itself because of how bad his knee injury was, which you would know if you didn't lie just like the other guy did:

>ESPN.com has learned from Mir’s camp that a nagging knee injury forced him to miss two weeks in the middle of a 12-week training camp. The setback nearly forced him to pull out of the fight and ultimately prevented him from hitting his target weight of 252 pounds.

The only reason any of this was made public was because Roy used the illness excuse first, so Mir's camp came public with it

so yeah, Mir was sick and injured much like Roy was. Mir still beat him handily in the clinch and on the ground.

can you point out where I lied yet or are you still too busy moving the goal posts?

No, the fact that you are butt-hurt show that you are angry. As for the link and your conveniently copied/pasted job, says nothing about him being sick/hurt DURING the fight and that's because he wasn't. Which is the whole point, that you keep either ignoring or twisting. Again, bitching about it doesn't change the outcome or the fact that you're wrong. But I'm sure you will ignore everything again, So I'm getting off here. I forgot how asinine SherTards like you are, reasoning and logic are foreign concepts to you. Have fun in your mom's basement, Nancy!

 

[KONE]

No, the fact that you are butt-hurt show that you are angry. As for the link and your conveniently copied/pasted job, says nothing about him being sick/hurt DURING the fight and that's because he wasn't. Which is the whole point, that you keep either ignoring or twisting. Again, bitching about it doesn't change the outcome or the fact that you're wrong. But I'm sure you will ignore everything again, So I'm getting off here. I forgot how asinine SherTards like you are, reasoning and logic are foreign concepts to you. Have fun in your mom's basement, Nancy!

Yeah his coaches must have been worried about Frank's breathing because he wasn't sick during the fight. He was almost gonna pull out of the fight because of his knee which totally wasn't bothering him on fight day :^)

"Y-You're wrong and stupid and that's why I'm leaving!"

LEL

Nice of you to stop by and embarrass yourself though, cya later Incredibly Angry At White Belts person

 

[79Stitches]

he won a Grappler's Quest tournament once (whatever that is)

Yeah, this shows your level of knowledge of the sport. Have a seat, junior.