Ranking double champs

[Mike]

The Rockhold KO was a fluke, pretty much the only time Ping KO'd anyone, and of course leave it to Rockhold to be that idiot that gets KO'd by Ping of all people.

It was only hard for GSP because GSP had clearly lost a step by that point.

Gastelum made it look pretty easy.

You don't think the fact that gsp beat the shit out of Ping literally weeks before this might have helped a bit?

 

[markg171]

There was a lot of discussion about Gane's poor showing against Francis, and his total inability to do anything but lay there underneath Francis; he clearly had no skills (especially given Francis was injured), and those kinds of skills tend to take a long time to improve. The LHWs Jones struggled with were actually harder matchups for Jones because they had better skills to counter what Jones has than Gane. Beating guys like Tui really did nothing for Gane's true stock. He's only number 1 because it's devoid of talent, he's not really championship caliber for high level MMA.

Regardless of hindsight, we know now it wasn't anything to write home to mom about (beating Gane). It's perhaps the easiest matchup anyone that moved up and fought a champ has had. Gane may have surprised some people at how quick he collapsed and failed in the fight, but I don't think that means higher regard for Jones in the situation.

I mean, you can try and say all that but Jones is still literally the only one who's ever done this to Gane. Even since against Spivac who's a grappler with 8 subs or Volkov who's a BB and previously knew to grapple Gane given he'd lost a striking match to him already.

Nobody's out here subbing "the worst grappler in history" in 2 minutes other than Jones. Who hadn't even subbed anybody in 11 years and has always been primarily known as a GNP guy, not submissions.

It's just hindsight bias to try and downplay Jones. Moving up and destroying #1 is impressive no matter what.

 

[joy2day]

I mean, you can try and say all that but Jones is still literally the only one who's ever done this to Gane. Even since against Spivac who's a grappler with 8 subs or Volkov who's a BB and previously knew to grapple Gane given he'd lost a striking match to him already.

Nobody's out here subbing "the worst grappler in history" in 2 minutes other than Jones. Who hadn't even subbed anybody in 11 years and has always been primarily known as a GNP guy, not submissions.

It's just hindsight bias to try and downplay Jones. Moving up and destroying #1 is impressive no matter what.

It is patently unimpressive in comparison to others though. There is absolutely zero ways to pump Gane up, and even mentioning those other HWs is embarrassing. They are nobodies. Gane has fought ZERO fighters with good ground games other than Jones, period.

 

[PeterGriffin]

The thing with Jones/Gane though is:

1. People weren't actually sure if his TDD sucked given he never would've prepared for Ngannou to take him down as nobody knew Ngannou was too injured to strike. Gane was his former training partner and was expecting a striking match
2. People expected Gane's TDD would've been improved after the Ngannou fight given he lost because of it. He'd had a year to improve that weakness
3. Jones hadn't been successful with his TDs in like 4 years, and against smaller LHWs, not someone bigger than him
4. Gane lost a split to Ngannou that he still may have won in many's eyes (not mine),was the recent interim champ, and had rebounded anyways against Tai so it's the next best person Jones could've fought. Gane was ranked #1, it would've been silly if Jones fought someone other than him for the vacant title after Ngannou left
5. Jon was coming off a 3 year layoff to a division he'd never fought in

I agree it's an asterisk compared to winning a title from a champ, but people make it out more than it should be because they've got the benefit of hindsight here. Even Gane and the entire commentary team were flabbergasted by how dominant Jon was there.

Jones could not have gotten a more tailor-made opponent in the top-10 to fight for a title against. That is blatantly obvious to anyone who has followed MMA for any length of time.

And all this other stuff...

"people weren't actually sure if his TDD sucked..." (yes we were)
"people expected his TDD to be better" (we didn't)
"Jones hadn't been successful with TD's..." (It's Cyril Gane ffs, a potato could take him down if it really wanted to)

Gane looks great against flat-footed fat asses or lesser fighters, but 2 decisions against Volkov, UD vs Boser, UD vs Rozenstruik doesn't exactly scream "killer". Jones had zero threat of being taken down himself, would need bare minimal takedown skills to get Gane down, and Gane doesn't exactly have dump trucks for hands. Frankly, most times it doesn't even seem like Gane is fighting with any fire inside him, just content to point fight away. A Gane match up was an incredibly safe fight and opponent for Jon, and Jon was exponentially more experienced in big fights. You can't possibly not recognize that for what it is.

The good thing is, this HW gong show is about over. The Miocic farce is done... Jon and Dana have don't really have any excuses left. Make the fight happen or get rid of the person being the problem. Jon, Dana, Tom... get rid of whoever the problem is, and let's move on. People shit on the HW division for being pathetic. It's bad enough juggling an already limited talent base, but treating it like a circus just exacerbates that.

If Tom beats Jon (as I expect if they meet) and Gane (seems pretty likely), Dana and company will have to start bringing in outside talent for Tom to beat. A few years on top by Tom, and Dana creates his own "Fedor". Seems like the smart play for Dana at this point, instead of holding up the division for a guy who isn't even really all that motivated. I honestly believe Dana won't let Jon just skate by on lame excuses or drag his heels for too long.

 

[BJJ4Tone]

 

[jitzmonkey]

Love GSP, second to none at WW, but his MW title is barely worth mentioning. Bisping was a scrub, and GSP never attempted to defend against a true top MW.

Bisping?
The guy with one eye who won the title off of a dude who was making everyone (except for TRT-tor's final form) look silly?

That guy's a "scrub?"

 

[markg171]

Jones could not have gotten a more tailor-made opponent in the top-10 to fight for a title against. That is blatantly obvious to anyone who has followed MMA for any length of time.

And all this other stuff...

"people weren't actually sure if his TDD sucked..." (yes we were)
"people expected his TDD to be better" (we didn't)
"Jones hadn't been successful with TD's..." (It's Cyril Gane ffs, a potato could take him down if it really wanted to)

Gane looks great against flat-footed fat asses or lesser fighters, but 2 decisions against Volkov, UD vs Boser, UD vs Rozenstruik doesn't exactly scream "killer". Jones had zero threat of being taken down himself, would need bare minimal takedown skills to get Gane down, and Gane doesn't exactly have dump trucks for hands. Frankly, most times it doesn't even seem like Gane is fighting with any fire inside him, just content to point fight away. A Gane match up was an incredibly safe fight and opponent for Jon, and Jon was exponentially more experienced in big fights. You can't possibly not recognize that for what it is.

The good thing is, this HW gong show is about over. The Miocic farce is done... Jon and Dana have don't really have any excuses left. Make the fight happen or get rid of the person being the problem. Jon, Dana, Tom... get rid of whoever the problem is, and let's move on. People shit on the HW division for being pathetic. It's bad enough juggling an already limited talent base, but treating it like a circus just exacerbates that.

If Tom beats Jon (as I expect if they meet) and Gane (seems pretty likely), Dana and company will have to start bringing in outside talent for Tom to beat. A few years on top by Tom, and Dana creates his own "Fedor". Seems like the smart play for Dana at this point, instead of holding up the division for a guy who isn't even really all that motivated. I honestly believe Dana won't let Jon just skate by on lame excuses or drag his heels for too long.

I'd like to introduce yourself to... yourself.

Seriously, I would favour both Ngannou and Gane over Jones at this point. Gane is the more dangerous of the two, but in a game where everyone has a puncher's chance you would have to be an idiot to count Ngannou out.

What has Jones accomplished at heavyweight to prove that he will be the same fighter that he was at LHW? His cardio will not be better, and he will not be faster. He might hit a little bit harder, but I am skeptical that materializes. Jones won't have the same physical advantages over his opponents that he did at 205. His opponents will be as strong or stronger than him and accustomed to fighting and being hit by other heavyweights. We have no idea how Jones' body will react to the weight gain and weightlifting, and given his extracurricular activities it could be a recipe for disaster. Regardless of whether it is Gane or Ngannou, the longer that fight goes, the more it will work against Jones.

Well, really don't see Jones beating either Ngannou or Gane at this point. Jones will ask for whatever amount he has to in hopes the UFC says "Fuck no!" and he can try to look like the good guy in the failed negotiations.

Although it would be fun watching Dana stroke out trying to put together a fight between big money Jones and bigger money Ngannou. It should be a competition to see who can make his big fat head the brightest red.

Like I said. You guys do this shit now that you've got the benefit of hindsight AFTER seeing Jon obliterate Gane.

 

[El Fernas]

DC:

Silva was a non title fight, not his fault, it was a short notice replacement.

Cejudo:

Beat TJ Dillashaw at FLW, then moved up for the vacant belt, TJ was already stripped cause of EPO at the time.

lol jones is not a real hw champ and we all know this

The real HW champ left, he beat the next best ranked guy at the time, then beat another former champion, sure Aspinall is probably the guy to beat him, but cant really say he isnt as the guy who held the title left, he wont be for too long tho, that fight isnt happening and he is getting stripped eventually.

 

[Koro_11]

Bisping?
The guy with one eye who won the title off of a dude who was making everyone (except for TRT-tor's final form) look silly?

That guy's a "scrub?"

Yes, the guy who got a fluke KO, then fucked the entire MW division for 2 years by dick tucking his way out of fighting any top contenders and robbing Jacare, Whittaker and Romero of their deserved title shots while cherry picking semi retired 46 year old Hendo and 5 years retired MW GSP, that guy is a shithead and a scrub.

Thank you GSP and thank you Kelvin for sending that fuckhead into retirement with back to back losses, also thank you TRT Vitor for kicking the eye out of his head.

Special thanks to Hendo for that beautiful follow up forearm to his unconscious corpse.

 

[jitzmonkey]

Yes, the guy who got a fluke KO, then fucked the entire MW division for 2 years by dick tucking his way out of fighting any top contenders and robbing Jacare, Whittaker and Romero of their deserved title shots while cherry picking semi retired 46 year old Hendo and 5 years retired MW GSP, that guy is a shithead and a scrub.

Thank you GSP and thank you Kelvin for sending that fuckhead into retirement with back to back losses, also thank you TRT Vitor for kicking the eye out of his head.

Special thanks to Hendo for that beautiful follow up forearm to his unconscious

Yes, the guy who got a fluke KO, then fucked the entire MW division for 2 years by dick tucking his way out of fighting any top contenders and robbing Jacare, Whittaker and Romero of their deserved title shots while cherry picking semi retired 46 year old Hendo and 5 years retired MW GSP, that guy is a shithead and a scrub.

Thank you GSP and thank you Kelvin for sending that fuckhead into retirement with back to back losses, also thank you TRT Vitor for kicking the eye out of his head.

Special thanks to Hendo for that beautiful follow up forearm to his unconscious corpse.

I forget, was that Test-enhanced Hendo that beat him at UFC 100?
For sure it was Uber TRT-tor who permanently damaged his right eye.

Both GSP and Gastelum ended their respective fights with a left hook to Bisping’s literal blind side.
I’m sure you’re not going to contradict that GSP’s got the fight to the ground where he was superior.

Dude was clean for his entire career, and won a title exposing Rockhold’s proclivity to drop his right hand, all with only one functioning eye.

And yes, he absolutely ducked the real contenders.

Putting yourself in his shoes, knowing that your career is essentially on its last legs (since you only have… one F’ing eye!) what would you do for your family?

Would you take the high risk low reward fights, or the opposite?
Again, you have only one eye and have been clean (unlike Belfort, and Hendo) for your entire career… and are the main bread winner for your family.

Would you risk all that just in case some rando on the internet wouldn’t call you a scrub however many years later; or would you make all the money that you could before the fact that you’d lost an eye to a cheater completely caught up to you*?