Ranking double champs

[HHJ]

The Rockhold KO was a fluke, pretty much the only time Ping KO'd anyone, and of course leave it to Rockhold to be that idiot that gets KO'd by Ping of all people.

It was only hard for GSP because GSP had clearly lost a step by that point.

Gastelum made it look pretty easy.

:: Glory ::

:: hater ass haters star hating ::

 

[Koro_11]

:: Glory ::

:: hater ass haters star hating ::

Yeah, I’ll tell you what else I hate, I hate that dirty fucker in your avatar who sucker punches random dudes at the mall for kissing their girlfriends. Was so satisfying watching him get bitch slapped by MVP the other day.

 

[HHJ]

Yeah, I’ll tell you what else I hate, I hate that dirty fucker in your avatar who sucker punches random dudes at the mall for kissing their girlfriends. Was so satisfying watching him get bitch slapped by MVP the other day.

All just a bit of a misunderstanding. Boys will be boys. Shara will be back and there will be more glory for you to REEEEEEEE about in short order.

 

[markg171]

Lots of misconceptions about this. Bisping was a far harder fight than people give people credit for. Bisping had really good ground defense and TD defense by that time in his career, and his blind left eye did little to affect this; GSP had to step out of his normal style to beat Bisping. Gane was actually the far easier matchup for anyone with grappling. Also, the blind have shown that they can fight, so we shouldn't dismiss Bisping on that basis, right @HHJ ?

I think the most impressive in terms of winning the belt one weight up was BJ Penn; he beat a champion that was dominant and wasn't over the hill.

GSP had been out of the game for a long time, and moved up to a weight class he never fought in, to beat the guy that KO'd Luke Rockhold.

GSP felt this was winnable fight, and it was but it was HARD. He could not win this fight comfortably like 80% of his fights. If he had not been able to finish Mike when he did, he would have lost, gassed out etc.

I would absolutely love to see all the bet slips calling for GSP to drop Bisping standing and choke him unconscious like people try and pretend was a given now that they've got the benefit of hindsight here.

Bisping was a bad matchup for GSP. He's a good striker, great TDD and defensive grappling far bigger, fantastic cardio, and GSP had been out for a long time, previously injured, and wasn't a finisher which is how Bisping usually loses. The fact that Weidman, Rockhold, Romero, Whittaker, whoever may have been a WORSE matchup for him to have fought for the MW title instead doesn't suddenly make Bisping a GOOD matchup for him. Hell, it was tougher than Woodley was if he'd just stayed at WW. He's seen a million Woodleys before already and could've just Koscheck'd him.

Bisping was a hard matchup for him. As evidenced by the fight itself where GSP struggled until the finish.

 

[Skarsgard]

Aldo needs to be mentioned. He would've beaten Pettis and been double champ but the UFC wanted him to drop the 145 belt first. He didn't get McGregor treatment.

As a massive Aldo fan, we can't include hypotheticals. That'd be like saying Jones wouldn't have beaten Aspinall or GSP wouldn't have been Yoel or Rob, so they can't be included.
Aldo got fucked and that sucks.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

If only Aldo had fought for a title in another weight class eh?

Oh yeah. Yan beat the shit out of him for the BW belt and he did in fact explicitly fail to become a two division champ.

Good for Yan. He beat the ghost of Christmas pass Aldo.

Prime Aldo wipes the floor with Yan and makes it look easy.

 

[Skarsgard]

The Rockhold KO was a fluke, pretty much the only time Ping KO'd anyone, and of course leave it to Rockhold to be that idiot that gets KO'd by Ping of all people.

It was only hard for GSP because GSP had clearly lost a step by that point.

Gastelum made it look pretty easy.

Not in the slightest. Bisping has always had good power when he sat down on his punches and his left had been landing to the entire fight up until that point. Throw in Rockhold's terrible defense from left attacks and it's a surprise he wasn't KO'd faster.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

As a massive Aldo fan, we can't include hypotheticals. That'd be like saying Jones wouldn't have beaten Aspinall or GSP wouldn't have been Yoel or Rob, so they can't be included.
Aldo got fucked and that sucks.

GSP wouldn't have beaten York or Rob. He took advantage of a one eyed, career on its last legs, fluked his way to being a champ Bisping (all Silva needed was a few follow up shots and herb stops the fight. Instead Silva tries to walk off and messes everything up). Then immediately retired again to avoid the real cream of the crop at 185. Just to turn around and push for a fight with khabib at 170.

 

[joy2day]

Bisping was a hard matchup for him. As evidenced by the fight itself where GSP struggled until the finish.

Right, as opposed to the Jones/Gane situation where the matchup was tailor made to be easy for Jones. Jones also fought a non-champion- Gane never won a title, so there should be a downgrade on the Jones performance points for that. All the other move ups actually had to fight someone who had won the title, regardless of how the champ fit into the division. Gane in fact had lost in his previous attempt to win the title.

 

[Objectively Correct]

Like half these guys won their belts in vacant scenarios and you're here only bitching about Jones.

Don't see you crying about Cormier winning his LHW belt immediately after losing to Jones in a vacant fight eh? Or losing to him again in a LHW title defence? Or about losing his HW title to the very man Stipe he won it from and then losing again to him in a successful title defence by Stipe? Don't even need to bring up Jones then waxing Stipe too, I'll give you that easy point that that's 5 years later... which is still at least good for Jones own longevity too.

Hater. Bitching bout Jones when Cormier's here never having been the best at either LHW or HW.

Yes, of course I'm a hater? Imagine not hating on Jon Jones lmao hold this L

 

[Koro_11]

Not in the slightest. Bisping has always had good power when he sat down on his punches and his left had been landing to the entire fight up until that point. Throw in Rockhold's terrible defense from left attacks and it's a surprise he wasn't KO'd faster.

Who else did Ping ever KO?

 

[HHJ]

He took advantage of a one eyed, career on its last legs, fluked his way to being a champ Bisping (all Silva needed was a few follow up shots and herb stops the fight. Instead Silva tries to walk off and messes everything up).

Cmon, im sure you got more EXCUSES.

 

[Skarsgard]

Who else did Ping ever KO?

KO? Don't know. I find the TKO/KO distinction to be a little to inconsistent to take seriously. He stopped a handful of them and rocked quite a few more.
I didn't say the guy was Ngannou. I said he had good power when he changed his style up and sat down on his punches. To be honest, most of the guys he beat by decision were still durable. The only one he with a really questionable chin was Wanderlei, and I don't remember much of that fight at all.

 

[Hymen Crusher]

Couture should be higher. Tim wasn't some can he was a legit champ at the time and has good wins. Chuck is a hof

 

[markg171]

Right, as opposed to the Jones/Gane situation where the matchup was tailor made to be easy for Jones. Jones also fought a non-champion- Gane never won a title, so there should be a downgrade on the Jones performance points for that. All the other move ups actually had to fight someone who had won the title, regardless of how the champ fit into the division. Gane in fact had lost in his previous attempt to win the title.

The thing with Jones/Gane though is:

1. People weren't actually sure if his TDD sucked given he never would've prepared for Ngannou to take him down as nobody knew Ngannou was too injured to strike. Gane was his former training partner and was expecting a striking match
2. People expected Gane's TDD would've been improved after the Ngannou fight given he lost because of it. He'd had a year to improve that weakness
3. Jones hadn't been successful with his TDs in like 4 years, and against smaller LHWs, not someone bigger than him
4. Gane lost a split to Ngannou that he still may have won in many's eyes (not mine),was the recent interim champ, and had rebounded anyways against Tai so it's the next best person Jones could've fought. Gane was ranked #1, it would've been silly if Jones fought someone other than him for the vacant title after Ngannou left
5. Jon was coming off a 3 year layoff to a division he'd never fought in

I agree it's an asterisk compared to winning a title from a champ, but people make it out more than it should be because they've got the benefit of hindsight here. Even Gane and the entire commentary team were flabbergasted by how dominant Jon was there.

 

[markg171]

Yes, of course I'm a hater? Imagine not hating on Jon Jones lmao hold this L

It ain't an L to point out you're holding ridiculous double standard simply because you're a hater

 

[HHJ]

Good for Yan. He beat the ghost of Christmas pass Aldo.

Prime Aldo wipes the floor with Yan and makes it look easy.

Not too sure about that.

To be honest they were both somewhat equal, with Aldo's experience aiding him, and his cardio failing him later on.

Aldo was someone who sometimes gassed even in his prime. So it could have gone the same. When both were fresh, it seemed like they very close to each other in skill.

ALSO Prime Aldo was at 145 not 135 so who knows what Aldo's ceiling at 135 really was.

 

[markg171]

Not in the slightest. Bisping has always had good power when he sat down on his punches and his left had been landing to the entire fight up until that point. Throw in Rockhold's terrible defense from left attacks and it's a surprise he wasn't KO'd faster.

Also

1. In their first fight Bisping also caught Rockhold in the 1st
2. They'd previously sparred together and both agree Bisping won that
3. Rockhold afterwards went to go train with Bisping's team and boxing coach Jason Parillo because he acknowledged he needed their striking advice and could learn from them

It's absolutely a shocking result and all time upset, but the upset was always there to happen by Bisping.

 

[PeterGriffin]

Love GSP, second to none at WW, but his MW title is barely worth mentioning. Bisping was a scrub, and GSP never attempted to defend against a true top MW.

GSP also spent years telling everyone he was too small for MW when everyone wanted him to get smoked by Silva. That it would take years for him to move up properly.

The UFC gives him a shot and he beats the MW champ in Bisping, but has a hard time with the weight because of the colitis, and says he can't physically handle it, and everyone shits on him for not defending. Not defending at a weight he was always adamant he couldn't maintain to start with. Most people seem to forget that. I guess the athlete does know his body better than all the armchair quarterbacks. Who would have guessed?

GSP moved up after what... 4 years off? Fights a naturally bigger guy who was active. GSP was obviously past his prime, but his chin stood up and his fight IQ got the job done. Discredit Bisping all you want, but the dude has fought a lot and his list of opponents is pretty damn impressive. Was already a LHW champ before TUF, won that as a LHW, and dropped to MW when it was obvious he had a better path to a title there. Bisping fought a who's who at 185lbs, he's no MW scrub.

And I suppose it goes without saying... that Dana brought GSP back to lose, not win. GSP was never Dana's puppet though.

 

[joy2day]

The thing with Jones/Gane though is:

1. People weren't actually sure if his TDD sucked given he never would've prepared for Ngannou to take him down as nobody knew Ngannou was too injured to strike. Gane was his former training partner and was expecting a striking match
2. People expected Gane's TDD would've been improved after the Ngannou fight given he lost because of it. He'd had a year to improve that weakness
3. Jones hadn't been successful with his TDs in like 4 years, and against smaller LHWs, not someone bigger than him
4. Gane lost a split to Ngannou that he still may have won in many's eyes (not mine),was the recent interim champ, and had rebounded anyways against Tai so it's the next best person Jones could've fought. Gane was ranked #1, it would've been silly if Jones fought someone other than him for the vacant title after Ngannou left
5. Jon was coming off a 3 year layoff to a division he'd never fought in

I agree it's an asterisk compared to winning a title from a champ, but people make it out more than it should be because they've got the benefit of hindsight here. Even Gane and the entire commentary team were flabbergasted by how dominant Jon was there.

There was a lot of discussion about Gane's poor showing against Francis, and his total inability to do anything but lay there underneath Francis; he clearly had no skills (especially given Francis was injured), and those kinds of skills tend to take a long time to improve. The LHWs Jones struggled with were actually harder matchups for Jones because they had better skills to counter what Jones has than Gane. Beating guys like Tui really did nothing for Gane's true stock. He's only number 1 because it's devoid of talent, he's not really championship caliber for high level MMA.

Regardless of hindsight, we know now it wasn't anything to write home to mom about (beating Gane). It's perhaps the easiest matchup anyone that moved up and fought a champ has had. Gane may have surprised some people at how quick he collapsed and failed in the fight, but I don't think that means higher regard for Jones in the situation.