Rampage explains how outer space is a hoax

[sickc0d3r]

You forgot science frauds. They're everywhere.

Kind of people that will ignore evidence and demand you provide proof of something (or you're stupid for believing it), while believing things with no proof whatsoever, like Hitler's death (where proof doesn't matter, because Daddy government told them to believe it).

It's hilarious, and I'd say more pathetic than any CTer. At least CTers have autonomous thought, even if it takes them into crazy land here and there.

No, CTers just want things to be true, so they look for reasons to believe them. The word for that is delusional.

 

[KnockoutsGalore]

Its not a science book. Its a history book among other things.

But even then, it isn't exactly historically accurate. And now 'scientists' are using it as a foundation of scientific knowledge, which it isn't.

 

[BearGrounds]

No, CTers just want things to be true, so they look for reasons to believe them. The word for that is delusional.

Same could be said for the official story of Hitler's death, like I've pointed out. But you'll find many of the people who scoff at the CT folk, having absolutely no problem believing that one.

Why? Daddy government told em to, and they listened like the trained mutts that they are.

 

[KnockoutsGalore]

Because there is written commentary on the scriptures going all the way back to the early disciples implying exactly that. And because we know the semitic peoples were not concerned with always getting the events correct historically. They were more concerned with telling the people what events meant and they used symbolism and symbolic imagery and numerology to do so.

God is real and miracles are absolutely real but that doesn't mean what I said just now isn't true.


So we know for sure that the semitic peoples turned stories into symbolisms all the time and we know that the audience expected that and never had to be told that it was being done because it was the common way of describing things at the time.

And we also know God is real and that miracles are real.

The truth is the further back you go in scripture the more likely a story is to be embellished in that way. The more recently something was written, the less likely it was to be embellished in that way and we don't exactly always know for sure which is which.

It is thought that the gospel accounts with Jesus are mostly historical, but we also know that the gospel of John takes liberties with that to make theological points. We know that because he places certain events in different orders than the other gospels in a way that is quite poetic and beautiful. But we also think that the events he places in a different order happened.

Some people don't like to have any uncertainty and so they either choose to believe none of it really happened or all of it happened exactly as it was spoken. But both of those are probably emotional reactions to intellectual uncertainty.

Replying in Bold - No.... we don't. And if we were to KNOW that God is real, then the purpose that God supposedly gave our life is gone. Part of the tenets of Christianity is Faith. You, as a Christian, are SUPPOSED to believe God is real WITHOUT any factual evidence. That is the way that you show God your praise and love (among other things like confessing with your mouth and believing in your heart that Jesus Christ died upon the cross for your sins and being saved by being anointed in the blood of Christ to have your sins washed away.) If there were proof that God exists, and we were to KNOW that God exists, then Faith would cease to be a factor and the entire establishment would crumble as an illogical fallacy.

 

[Deleted member 577981]

Replying in Bold - No.... we don't. And if we were to KNOW that God is real, then the purpose that God supposedly gave our life is gone. Part of the tenets of Christianity is Faith. You, as a Christian, are SUPPOSED to believe God is real WITHOUT any factual evidence. That is the way that you show God your praise and love (among other things like confessing with your mouth and believing in your heart that Jesus Christ died upon the cross for your sins and being saved by being anointed in the blood of Christ to have your sins washed away.) If there were proof that God exists, and we were to KNOW that God exists, then Faith would cease to be a factor and the entire establishment would crumble as an illogical fallacy.

Thinking that faith means believing without evidence is the kind of lie that atheists tell their disciples, but it's not what Christianity teaches. It's just the straw man that atheists try to slay.

Faith in the Christian schema means you open your heart to something you're not sure is there. But then you have experience with God and you know that it is there. But also it means that forever on your journey the way forward will be faith and the knowledge will come after the faith. The knowledge comes from experiencing it. The experience we have with God leads to knowledge, faith and knowledge or rather faith and reason share a deep intimate relationship.

We do know for a fact that God exists because we have direct experience with God through our prayer life. We know that salvation is real because we are experiencing it now and continue to throughout our lives.

I asked a monk once when I first began learning from him. What is salvation? He said are you aware of god's power healing you and changing you and transforming you? I said yes. He said that is salvation.

At the Christian meditation center that I attend, they do not teach people theology until they've been on the path for a few years!! The reason why is because if you wait a few years and they already have experience with the power of the spirit changing their lives, they will know theology is true when they read it because it will map to their experience perfectly and explain it better than they could. That's the moment of a deep and profound conversion on the Christian path when you realize that it's theology maps perfectly with the emotional, psychological, physical and spiritual transformations that are organically taking place as you open yourself to Christ.

The above is my area of expertise in Christianity but there are other levels and ways which this arguments can also be answered. One way is to ask the question that if Jesus had really existed and if he had died on the cross and resurrected, what kind of evidence would we expect to be 2000 years ago, and what kind of historical evidence would we see in the past? When you do that thought experiment, you realize that every bit of evidence you would expect to see if it had happened is present and it is reasonable to believe based on that evidence.

The notion that faith does not have a deep intimate relationship with knowledge is naive and ignorant. Faith leads to knowledge.

 

[dirtypablo]

Replying in Bold - No.... we don't. And if we were to KNOW that God is real, then the purpose that God supposedly gave our life is gone. Part of the tenets of Christianity is Faith. You, as a Christian, are SUPPOSED to believe God is real WITHOUT any factual evidence. That is the way that you show God your praise and love (among other things like confessing with your mouth and believing in your heart that Jesus Christ died upon the cross for your sins and being saved by being anointed in the blood of Christ to have your sins washed away.) If there were proof that God exists, and we were to KNOW that God exists, then Faith would cease to be a factor and the entire establishment would crumble as an illogical fallacy.

I can't speak to the tenets of Christianity, but in many spiritual traditions you're supposed to have faith as a support for your practice until the practice reveals the truths of these things. It's not supposed to be blind faith, but faith based on slow accumulation of personal experience and evidence that the teachings are true.

 

[KnockoutsGalore]

Thinking that faith means believing without evidence is the kind of lie that atheists tell their disciples, but it's not what Christianity teaches. It's just the straw man that atheists try to slay.

Faith in the Christian schema means you open your heart to something you're not sure is there. But then you have experience with God and you know that it is there. But also it means that forever on your journey the way forward will be faith and the knowledge will come after the faith. The knowledge comes from experiencing it. The experience we have with God leads to knowledge, faith and knowledge or rather faith and reason share a deep intimate relationship.

We do know for a fact that God exists because we have direct experience with God through our prayer life. We know that salvation is real because we are experiencing it now and continue to throughout our lives.

I asked a monk once when I first began learning from him. What is salvation? He said are you aware of god's power healing you and changing you and transforming you? I said yes. He said that is salvation.

At the Christian meditation center that I attend, they do not teach people theology until they've been on the path for a few years!! The reason why is because if you wait a few years and they already have experience with the power of the spirit changing their lives, they will know theology is true when they read it because it will map to their experience perfectly and explain it better than they could. That's the moment of a deep end. Profound conversion on the Christian path when you realize that it's theology maps perfectly with the emotional, psychological, physical and spiritual transformations that are organically taking place as you open yourself to Christ.

The above is my area of expertise in Christianity but there are other levels and ways which this arguments can also be answered. One way is to ask the question that if Jesus had really existed and if he had died on the cross and resurrected, what kind of evidence would we expect to be 2000 years ago, and what kind of historical evidence would we see in the past? When you do that thought experiment, you realize that every bit of evidence you would expect to see if it had happened is present and it is reasonable to believe based on that evidence.

The notion that faith does not have a deep intimate relationship with knowledge is naive and ignorant. Faith leads to knowledge.

This is not fact. This is a feeling. You 'feel' direct experience, but that doesn't make it a fact. You don't KNOW salvation is real because you are experiencing, it's a feeling that YOU have. That doesn't make it a fact. This is why it's impossible to have this conversation with you based on FACTS and not FEELINGS.

Facts lead to knowledge, not feelings and faith.

 

[Deleted member 577981]

@KnockoutsGalore

I should have mentioned also that the changes that happen are very specific and there are stages that are reliably reproducible that people can guarantee to pass through as they travel with christ.

One stage is called the dark night of the soul and there a very specific qualities that it induces in the soul who receives it. You cannot make it happen. It must come upon you . These changes are very very counterintuitive and nobody would go down that road unless they had a whole community assuring them that it was a safe road to travel. Nothing about it seems good for at least two or three years. It is said that if your spiritual director can comfort you and make you feel totally safe about it, you are not on it!! If one makes it through that stage then there is nothing that can keep them from enlightenment except being distracted by the wonderful life they will have found.

Another general awakening is the profoundly personal nature of God... that God is a trinity of persons and there is a correlating awareness that grows in the soul of their own personhood... the mystery of personhood and the absolute stability of personhood. A person who goes through this transformation will enjoy a deep, intimate personal relationship with God and also become more and more simple because the embellishments and adornments that people place upon them themselves to elaborate and exaggerate are no longer necessary in light of this profound stability.

That is just two examples of many transformations that take place along with the assent of faith, hope and charity, peace, joy and love and also the beatitudes, which are our very best map of the specific stages that each person must be initiated into on the way to Union with god.

The point is it is completely ridiculous to state that we are without knowledge. We have just the right kind of knowledge to open up to a power that is beyond our knowledge. Unlike Eastern paths, we don't have enough knowledge to traverse these dimensions knowingly we have just enough knowledge to enter into relationship with god who then leads us along the ways.

 

[KnockoutsGalore]

@KnockoutsGalore

I should have mentioned also that the changes that happen are very specific and there are stages that are reliably reproducible that people can guarantee to pass through as they travel with christ.

One stage is called the dark night of the soul and there a very specific qualities that it induces in the soul who receives it. You cannot make it happen. It must come upon you . These changes are very very counterintuitive and nobody would go down that road unless they had a whole community assuring them that it was a safe road to travel. Nothing about it seems good for at least two or three years. It is said that if your spiritual director can comfort you and make you feel totally safe about it, you are not on it!! If one makes it through that stage then there is nothing that can keep them from enlightenment except being distracted by the wonderful life they will have found.

Another general awakening is the profoundly personal nature of God... that God is a trinity of persons and there is a correlating awareness that grows in the soul of their own personhood... the mystery of personhood and the absolute stability of personhood. A person who goes through this transformation will enjoy a deep, intimate personal relationship with God and also become more and more simple because the embellishments and adornments that people place upon them themselves to elaborate and exaggerate are no longer necessary in light of this profound stability.

That is just two examples of many transformations that take place along with the assent of faith, hope and charity, peace, joy and love and also the beatitudes, which are our very best map of the specific stages that each person must be initiated into on the way to Union with god.

The point is it is completely ridiculous to state that we are without knowledge. We have just the right kind of knowledge to open up to a power that is beyond our knowledge. Unlike Eastern paths, we don't have enough knowledge to traverse these dimensions. knowingly we have just enough knowledge to enter into relationship with god who then leads us along the ways.

This is still a feeling. No matter how "reproducible" you claim it to be, there's no basis of true external measurement and observation. I like you, really, I do. But I'm not going to continue having this conversation. You can't base facts in feelings and claim it to be knowledge. I'm not going to change your mind about what you "know" and you aren't going to change mind that your feelings, however many other people have claimed to have them, makes something factual.

 

[Deleted member 577981]

This is still a feeling. No matter how "reproducible" you claim it to be, there's no basis of true external measurement and observation. I like you, really, I do. But I'm not going to continue having this conversation. You can't base facts in feelings and claim it to be knowledge. I'm not going to change your mind about what you "know" and you aren't going to change mind that your feelings, however many other people have claimed to have them, makes something factual.

That's another fallacy that you have been told because your scientists have taught you the dogma that if they don't capture it in their labs it didn't happen!!

We know what is real because we experience it directly. But we also experience miracles of healing and others that are impossible according to the priests of scientism. We know there is god, we know for a fact there is God. It's the new religion of scientism that doesn't have this knowledge and all those who align to its dogmas.

Also, just so you know, the dark night of the soul cures you of basing god off a feeling... We believe feelings can be profoundly misleading even mystical feelings... and the dark night of the soul takes you along a road where you become conscious of God's existence transcendent of feeling. But first, it takes away your ability to feel much at all!!

The main thing you need to know man is that whatever arguments you've heard against religion have probably been made by fools who don't know very much about anything really.

 

[sickc0d3r]

Same could be said for the official story of Hitler's death, like I've pointed out. But you'll find many of the people who scoff at the CT folk, having absolutely no problem believing that one.

Why? Daddy government told em to, and they listened like the trained mutts that they are.

Well Hitler is certainly dead, so who cares? There’s no question it would be possible to lie about something like that, though (even if there’s no good reason for it). If you want to waste your time figuring out if Hitler, Elvis, and Jim Morrison are living with their pet Bigfoot somewhere in Argentina, have at it.

I’m talking more about people who insist things are true despite all evidence to the contrary. Like election fraud, the shape of planet Earth, fake moon landings, Sandy Hook, etc.
Most of us accept what is observably and most likely to be true, absent convincing evidence to the contrary, and go on about our day. CTers are prone to believe flimsy and often verifiably false “evidence” because they want something to be true, usually to push a narrative.

 

[KnockoutsGalore]

That's another fallacy that you have been told because your scientists have taught you the dogma that if they don't capture it in their labs it didn't happen!!

We know what is real because we experience it directly. But we also experience miracles of healing and others that are impossible according to the priests of scientism. We know there is god, we know for a fact there is God. It's the new religion of scientism that doesn't have this knowledge and all those who align to its dogmas.

Also, just so you know, the dark night of the soul cures you of basing god off a feeling... We believe feelings can be profoundly misleading even mystical feelings... and the dark night of the soul takes you along a road where you become conscious of God's existence transcendent of feeling. But first, it takes away your ability to feel much at all!!

The main thing you need to know man is that whatever arguments you've heard against religion have probably been made by fools who don't know very much about anything really.

Further showing your own ignorance. Let's just drop it. If you feel the need to keep spouting your own hypocritical nonsense, have at it, but don't expect any further responses from me.

 

[BearGrounds]

Well Hitler is certainly dead, so who cares? There’s no question it would be possible to lie about something like that, though (even if there’s no good reason for it). If you want to waste your time figuring out if Hitler, Elvis, and Jim Morrison are living with their pet Bigfoot somewhere in Argentina, have at it.

I’m talking more about people who insist things are true despite all evidence to the contrary. Like election fraud, the shape of planet Earth, fake moon landings, Sandy Hook, etc.
Most of us accept what is observably and most likely to be true, absent convincing evidence to the contrary, and go on about our day. CTers are prone to believe flimsy and often verifiably false “evidence” because they want something to be true, usually to push a narrative.

I only mentioned it to make a point, that should have been clear to you. I have no interest in convincing anybody that Hitler survived.

Science people are prone to believe whatever the government lets them believe.

 

[Deleted member 577981]

Further showing your own ignorance. Let's just drop it. If you feel the need to keep spouting your own hypocritical nonsense, have at it, but don't expect any further responses from me.

hey man... I was responding to you and please know that I am in no way trying to convince you of anything. its ok with me if you don't believe it. it really is. I was just responding to something you said that turns out to be propaganda from the new atheists.

all I even hope for here is that you see through the kind of propaganda that a certain atheist crowd is known for. that's all.

 

[KnockoutsGalore]

I only mentioned it to make a point, that should have been clear to you. I have no interest in convincing anybody that Hitler survived.

Science people are prone to believe whatever the government lets them believe.

Actual 'science people' (as opposed to people who are admittedly anti-science?) are prone to believe what the facts and evidence state.

 

[BearGrounds]

Actual 'science people' (as opposed to people who are admittedly anti-science?) are prone to believe what the facts and evidence state.

Indeed. Which is precisely why most of these self proclaimed science people aren't actually that. They pick and choose when to apply the method (including how vigorously they do so) based on their personal bias.

 

[Deleted member 577981]

Actual 'science people' (as opposed to people who are admittedly anti-science?) are prone to believe what the facts and evidence state

this is sometimes the case in profoundly respectable and dignified ways man. I lay at the feet of the western intellectual tradition even but it is also often the case that so called science people have a priory biases that go completely un-examined and cause them so make massive logical errors or refuse to examine evidence altogether. there have been more than a few examples of that in this thread even.

personally I am on the scientists side 100% as opposed to the practitioners of the religion of scientism on the one hand and the ct crowd on the other who I think are both reacting to one another and not thinking clearly and have many a priory biases (not knowledge's) that blind them.

 

[KnockoutsGalore]

Indeed. Which is precisely why most of these self proclaimed science people aren't actually that. They pick and choose when to apply the method (including how vigorously they do so) based on their personal bias.

Which is the difference between Scientists and 'science people'. Or, if Scientist is too centric on those who perform their own experiments, Science People and 'science people'.

But saying that everyone that believes in science are prone to believe what a government lets them is foolish and closed minded.

 

[Deleted member 577981]

wolfgang smith had 3 phd's by the time he was 18 or so if I remember correctly. he is a physicist. he thinks physics cannot move forward without a very different understanding and that Hinduism has the keys to that understanding embedded in their religion. he has or is in the process of publishing a new scientific paper with a new theory of physics.

this is fascinating stuff for any of you that are science minded. this is the kind of talk I will listen to a couple times a year even...

of course one person in this thread who is a dogmatic scientist called wolfgang a "random" not worth listening too!!!

 

[Fedora Millionankles]

This thread is the holy grail of stupud. CT conspiracy tards, flat earthers, and Trump supporters

I tend to agree with this statement, but Leftists need to be added to the list.
Theyre the only ones that think you can change your gender by putting a dress on and can’t define what a woman is.