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actually there is clearly a genetic component when it comes to obesity. the real argument is about how much weight it holds and its distribution
Ralphie May is Dead
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Not 400lbs worth of "genetics", that's for damn sure.
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No. Just no.
Obese people need to eat as clean as possible and get a lot of exercise, just like everyone else. But once they're obese, they're almost certainly never going to be thin again, and it's cruel to act like they could if they were a little less lazy.
Obesity research confirms long-term weight loss almost impossible
There's a disturbing truth that is emerging from the science of obesity. After years of study, it's becoming apparent that it's nearly impossible to permanently lose weight.
As incredible as it sounds, that's what the evidence is showing. For psychologist Traci Mann, who has spent 20 years running an eating lab at the University of Minnesota, the evidence is clear. "It couldn't be easier to see," she says. "Long-term weight loss happens to only the smallest minority of people."
We all think we know someone in that rare group. They become the legends — the friend of a friend, the brother-in-law, the neighbour — the ones who really did it.
But if we check back after five or 10 years, there's a good chance they will have put the weight back on. Only about five per cent of people who try to lose weight ultimately succeed, according to the research. Those people are the outliers, but we cling to their stories as proof that losing weight is possible.
"Those kinds of stories really keep the myth alive," says University of Alberta professor Tim Caulfield, who researches and writes about health misconceptions. "You have this confirmation bias going on where people point to these very specific examples as if it's proof. But in fact those are really exceptions."
There's a disturbing truth that is emerging from the science of obesity. After years of study, it's becoming apparent that it's nearly impossible to permanently lose weight.
As incredible as it sounds, that's what the evidence is showing. For psychologist Traci Mann, who has spent 20 years running an eating lab at the University of Minnesota, the evidence is clear. "It couldn't be easier to see," she says. "Long-term weight loss happens to only the smallest minority of people."
We all think we know someone in that rare group. They become the legends — the friend of a friend, the brother-in-law, the neighbour — the ones who really did it.
But if we check back after five or 10 years, there's a good chance they will have put the weight back on. Only about five per cent of people who try to lose weight ultimately succeed, according to the research. Those people are the outliers, but we cling to their stories as proof that losing weight is possible.
"Those kinds of stories really keep the myth alive," says University of Alberta professor Tim Caulfield, who researches and writes about health misconceptions. "You have this confirmation bias going on where people point to these very specific examples as if it's proof. But in fact those are really exceptions."
I know there is absolutely no chance I'm going to convince you that you're wrong, although you absolutely, positively are. Once you're obese it is no longer a matter of choice. Again, I'm not saying that every single person shouldn't be eating as well as possible and getting plenty of exercise, because we all need to do that to be healthy, period. But obese people will remain obese the VAST majority of the time.
You dismiss the studies. Does that mean you dismiss ALL of them? Every one? Or can you find one that demonstrates that you're right? Do you believe that these studies WANT to find that's it's almost impossible to transition from obese to a healthier build? Seriously, take a look at your own motives here if you're unwilling to consider you might be wrong, despite the fact all the studies indicate that you are. THIS study comes closest to saying what you want it to say, but it didn't monitor long term success.
I believe that one of the things you said is correct. I am certain there are people who were predisposed for obesity who have eaten well, gotten plenty of exercise, and maintain a healthy build. If they had become obese, though, it would have been almost impossible for them to lose the fat and keep it off.
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no data to back this up, but intuitively i wouldnt think just the opposite.
a person who is physical capable of even becoming that deathly obese I would think has a strong genetic disposition towards general obesity. and that compounded with poor life choices leads to the 400+ers
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The real proof is there are no obese starving people.
People can say what they want about genetics addictions and whatever but at the end of the day you are fat because you eat too much and don't exercise enough.
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It isn't for "damn sure".
A lot of things that lead to obesity, not counting glandular issues which are obvious, are genetic. How you digest and store food is a function of genetics. The hormone ghrelin is a genetic variation, and it can result in hunger that is far more extreme in some than others. The human body is pretty complicated.
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Dude, you're acting like there's never been a case of anyone ever losing weight. You're being ridiculous.
And without going into great detail, I summed up why I don't dig a lot of these surveys/studies. I'm not saying don't read them and that they're total BS, but they do seem to seek out people that fit the narrative. A lot of studies do this fwiw. This reminds me of the Bill Burr routine about shark attacks being more frequent in shallow water 'well yeah, that's where all the fucking people are'
Either way, lol @ me being 'absolutely wrong'. No, dude, anyone can lose weight -but everyone's path to it will be different and some people's genetics do make it a greater obstacle. But there is no absolute here, nothing is finite. And if your studies are saying that it is?
Then yeah, those are bullshit studies that have a narrative in mind before the study was conducted.
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Researchers are divided about why weight gain seems to be irreversible, probably a combination of biological and social forces. "The fundamental reason," Caulfield says, "is that we are very efficient biological machines. We evolved not to lose weight. We evolved to keep on as much weight as we possibly can."
Lost in all of the noise about dieting and obesity is the difficult concept of prevention, of not putting weight on in the first place.
The Lancet study warned that more than one in five kids in developed countries are now overweight or obese. Statistics Canada says close to a third of Canadian kids under 17 are overweight or obese. And in a world flooded with food, with enormous economic interest in keeping people eating that food, what is required to turn this ship around is daunting.
"An appropriate rebalancing of the primal needs of humans with food availability is essential," University of Oxford epidemiologist Klim McPherson wrote in a Lancet commentary following last week's study. But to do that, he suggested, "would entail curtailing many aspects of production and marketing for food industries."
Perhaps, though, the emerging scientific reality should also be made clear, so we can navigate this obesogenic world armed with the stark truth — that we are held hostage to our biology, which is adapted to gain weight, an old evolutionary advantage that has become a dangerous metabolic liability.
Lost in all of the noise about dieting and obesity is the difficult concept of prevention, of not putting weight on in the first place.
The Lancet study warned that more than one in five kids in developed countries are now overweight or obese. Statistics Canada says close to a third of Canadian kids under 17 are overweight or obese. And in a world flooded with food, with enormous economic interest in keeping people eating that food, what is required to turn this ship around is daunting.
"An appropriate rebalancing of the primal needs of humans with food availability is essential," University of Oxford epidemiologist Klim McPherson wrote in a Lancet commentary following last week's study. But to do that, he suggested, "would entail curtailing many aspects of production and marketing for food industries."
Perhaps, though, the emerging scientific reality should also be made clear, so we can navigate this obesogenic world armed with the stark truth — that we are held hostage to our biology, which is adapted to gain weight, an old evolutionary advantage that has become a dangerous metabolic liability.
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Dude was a comedian though and probably wouldn't take offense at anorexia jokes
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It's 99% poor life choices. Some might have genetic advantage over others, in having the physical capability of getting that grossly obese, sure. Regardless, the only way anyone gets that big, is with an unhealthy lifestyle. You might have the genes, but you certainly have to work at it to gain the weight. It doesn't just happen, because you were born that way. Barring a very select few of course, who actually have real genetic conditions.
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Well, I said I was never going to change your mind, despite the fact if you search Google you will find plenty of studies that show you're wrong, and none that suggest you're right.
I guess it's just easier to ignore them and mock fat people.
You give yourself away by saying that my claim is that nobody ever lost weight. I never said that. I said the percentage is very small, because according to every single study that has tracked it, the percentage is very small.
Instead of just saying the science is bad, find one that backs your position.
In my opinion, there is a much stronger motivation for a study to skew the other way, to say it's possible, than it is to say it's impossible, and yet here we are.
Tiptoeing around the truth
So if most scientists know that we can't eat ourselves thin, that the lost weight will ultimately bounce back, why don't they say so?
Tim Caulfield says his fellow obesity academics tend to tiptoe around the truth. "You go to these meetings and you talk to researchers, you get a sense there is almost a political correctness around it, that we don't want this message to get out there," he said.
Last fall, the Dubai government launched a 30-day weight loss challenge called "Your Weight in Gold" to encourage dieters and combat growing obesity in the Gulf Arab emirate. It should probably save its money if the current science is right. (Reuters)
"You'll be in a room with very knowledgeable individuals, and everyone in the room will know what the data says and still the message doesn't seem to get out."
In part, that's because it's such a harsh message. "You have to be careful about the stigmatizing nature of that kind of image," Caulfield says. "That's one of the reasons why this myth of weight loss lives on."
Health experts are also afraid people will abandon all efforts to exercise and eat a nutritious diet — behaviour that is important for health and longevity — even if it doesn't result in much weight loss.
Traci Mann says the emphasis should be on measuring health, not weight. "You should still eat right, you should still exercise, doing healthy stuff is still healthy," she said. "It just doesn't make you thin."
So if most scientists know that we can't eat ourselves thin, that the lost weight will ultimately bounce back, why don't they say so?
Tim Caulfield says his fellow obesity academics tend to tiptoe around the truth. "You go to these meetings and you talk to researchers, you get a sense there is almost a political correctness around it, that we don't want this message to get out there," he said.
Last fall, the Dubai government launched a 30-day weight loss challenge called "Your Weight in Gold" to encourage dieters and combat growing obesity in the Gulf Arab emirate. It should probably save its money if the current science is right. (Reuters)
"You'll be in a room with very knowledgeable individuals, and everyone in the room will know what the data says and still the message doesn't seem to get out."
In part, that's because it's such a harsh message. "You have to be careful about the stigmatizing nature of that kind of image," Caulfield says. "That's one of the reasons why this myth of weight loss lives on."
Health experts are also afraid people will abandon all efforts to exercise and eat a nutritious diet — behaviour that is important for health and longevity — even if it doesn't result in much weight loss.
Traci Mann says the emphasis should be on measuring health, not weight. "You should still eat right, you should still exercise, doing healthy stuff is still healthy," she said. "It just doesn't make you thin."
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Well, I said I was never going to change your mind, despite the fact if you search Google you will find plenty of studies that show you're wrong, and none that suggest you're right.
I guess it's just easier to ignore them and mock fat people.
You give yourself away by saying that my claim is that nobody ever lost weight. I never said that. I said the percentage is very small, because according to every single study that has tracked it, the percentage is very small.
Instead of just saying the science is bad, find one that backs your position.
In my opinion, there is a much stronger motivation for a study to skew the other way, to say it's possible, than it is to say it's impossible, and yet here we are.
Tiptoeing around the truth
So if most scientists know that we can't eat ourselves thin, that the lost weight will ultimately bounce back, why don't they say so?
Tim Caulfield says his fellow obesity academics tend to tiptoe around the truth. "You go to these meetings and you talk to researchers, you get a sense there is almost a political correctness around it, that we don't want this message to get out there," he said.
"You'll be in a room with very knowledgeable individuals, and everyone in the room will know what the data says and still the message doesn't seem to get out."
Last fall, the Dubai government launched a 30-day weight loss challenge called "Your Weight in Gold" to encourage dieters and combat growing obesity in the Gulf Arab emirate. It should probably save its money if the current science is right. (Reuters)
In part, that's because it's such a harsh message. "You have to be careful about the stigmatizing nature of that kind of image," Caulfield says. "That's one of the reasons why this myth of weight loss lives on."
Health experts are also afraid people will abandon all efforts to exercise and eat a nutritious diet — behaviour that is important for health and longevity — even if it doesn't result in much weight loss.
Traci Mann says the emphasis should be on measuring health, not weight. "You should still eat right, you should still exercise, doing healthy stuff is still healthy," she said. "It just doesn't make you thin."
Christalmighty
I'm not making fun of anyone.
And you are acting like no one has ever done it (this is different than you claiming no one has ever done it).
Stop yourself.
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Well, I said I was never going to change your mind, despite the fact if you search Google you will find plenty of studies that show you're wrong, and none that suggest you're right.
I guess it's just easier to ignore them and mock fat people.
You give yourself away by saying that my claim is that nobody ever lost weight. I never said that. I said the percentage is very small, because according to every single study that has tracked it, the percentage is very small.
Instead of just saying the science is bad, find one that backs your position.
In my opinion, there is a much stronger motivation for a study to skew the other way, to say it's possible, than it is to say it's impossible, and yet here we are.
Tiptoeing around the truth
So if most scientists know that we can't eat ourselves thin, that the lost weight will ultimately bounce back, why don't they say so?
Tim Caulfield says his fellow obesity academics tend to tiptoe around the truth. "You go to these meetings and you talk to researchers, you get a sense there is almost a political correctness around it, that we don't want this message to get out there," he said.
"You'll be in a room with very knowledgeable individuals, and everyone in the room will know what the data says and still the message doesn't seem to get out."
Last fall, the Dubai government launched a 30-day weight loss challenge called "Your Weight in Gold" to encourage dieters and combat growing obesity in the Gulf Arab emirate. It should probably save its money if the current science is right. (Reuters)
In part, that's because it's such a harsh message. "You have to be careful about the stigmatizing nature of that kind of image," Caulfield says. "That's one of the reasons why this myth of weight loss lives on."
Health experts are also afraid people will abandon all efforts to exercise and eat a nutritious diet — behaviour that is important for health and longevity — even if it doesn't result in much weight loss.
Traci Mann says the emphasis should be on measuring health, not weight. "You should still eat right, you should still exercise, doing healthy stuff is still healthy," she said. "It just doesn't make you thin."
You do have to wonder though as to why obesity rates have gone up. Five decades ago, people were not nearly as obese as they are now. Have genetics changed since then? No, but eating habits certainly have.
Now, obviously we can't dismiss genetic predilections towards obesity if we want to be taken seriously. Leptin and ghrelin levels most likely are influenced by genetic factors, but we also can't ignore the obesogenic nature of our current society and we can't ignore the fact that eating at a calorie surplus most days of your life will lead to predictable weight gain, and eating at a calorie deficit most days will certainly lead to some weight loss (your body must get the energy from somewhere, it cannot create it, so it gets it from fat {as well as lean body mass unfortunately})
As you said, this stuff is complicated. That's why I would never judge someone for their weight in a cruel manner. And I understand that you are talking not just about weight loss, but maintaining that loss. Oh well, more studies and research to come I'm sure.
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no. thats what you want to believe. there is no science to support a claim that strong, and i'd be shocked if anything near that number were true.
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No, I am not acting like that. There's a guy in the Mayberry pictures thread who has done it. I know a guy who also did it, kept the weight off for several years, until eventually he gained it all back, because that is what almost always happens. And it's painfully discouraging.
I am acting like very few people have done it because it's insanely difficult.
It's a hell of a lot more than "just put the fork down, fatty".
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How does one get to be 400lbs, without poor health choices? Seriously, explain this phenomenon of people spontaneously blowing up to 400lbs, without eating and lazying themselves there.
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The single most important thing in my opinion is feeding our children correctly and making sure they get a ton of exercise. When I was young there weren't many fat kids, now they're everywhere.
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Yep. Many people don't know about the food they're eating. Like, they literally don't know what foods are high in carbohydrates vs protein vs fat. The one other thing I wanted to address was the simplicity of the advice of "put the fork down, fatty" and "eat less, move more." I agree 100% those are silly pieces of advice for overweight/obese people. These people are desperate for help and using pithy advice like that does jack shit.
They need specific diet/exercise/psychological advice, along with the "tricks of the trade" of staying thin (e.g. simply not having junk food in your house eliminates a lot of the will power required to maintain a calorie deficit). Stephan Guyenet apparently has an interesting book about the psychological side of getting to a healthy weight.
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the contrary to what youre saying is not what im saying. work on your reading comprehension and your ability to follow the logic of an argument.
