Economy "Radical" Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

IPhone technology becomes unusable. (Apple quits updating it)
floppy disk technology unusable.

My chevy will still be very usable in 20 years.
Both of those things are still usable. An extremely small % of population still uses the 1st or 2nd generation iPhone (like 0.1% small). You can still use floppy disks. It's just extremely hard to find.

There was 2016 article about how the U.S. government still uses floppy disks in some places. https://www.pcworld.com/article/307...dows-31-floppy-disks-and-1970s-computers.html

And you can still buy the disks and a floppy drive that connects to a real computer, lol, via USB. Although it escapes me why anyone is buying this. https://www.macobserver.com/news/product-news/youre-looking-floppy-disks-amazons-got-really/
 
Getting off fossile fuels in 12 years is insane.

The US doesn’t have the infrastructure to supply that many electric cars, imagine the amount of electric energy you need to make available all over the country. Plus the battery technology used nowadays doesn’t scale well. It uses rare materials and the performance leaves much to be desired.
It should also be noted that fossil fuels are used for a lot more than just transportation.
 
I'd like to see the math. Not because I disagree with you but because I'm curious how that is calculated.

Does your calculation consider an embargo on creating new gas vehicles? I'd hate to complicate your math but can you model it out with 0 new gas cars produced from today. 0 new gas cars produced starting in 8 years. And a declining rate of production over a 10 year window?

My imaginary check to your imaginary consulting firm is in the mail. :D

Still at work, but once I'm home (and do a shot of tequila) I'll get on it!

And fair warning, math isnt my best area but I will be open to it being ripped apart by the less numerically challanged members. The declining rate of production will be a headache for me.
 
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Bad comparsion more people needs cars compared to those things listed.
That's a weird point to make. She isn't saying to eliminate cars altogether. People would still be able to buy cars - they'd just be electric.
 
It should also be noted that fossil fuels are used for a lot more than just transportation.

This is what I was thinking in my earlier post. A serious problem for me is how does she expect planes and boats to work on anything other than fossil fuels? Do we even have huge commercial planes that run on anything but fossil fuels???
 
This is what I was thinking in my earlier post. A serious problem for me is how does she expect planes and boats to work on anything other than fossil fuels? Do we even have huge commercial planes that run on anything but fossil fuels???
And manufacturing, plastics, etc.
We kind of painted ourselves into a corner on this one.
 
God more Musk worship. The dude hasn't even figured out how to run his own companies; why the hell should we give him more projects?
Faith-based investment in tech like that is idiotic. There are TONS of smart people dying to devote their lives to various industries trying to solve these problems. Give them more funding.

Didn’t his company put a fuckin rocket into space? I think he is doing just fine
 
I thought she like poor people.

So I in 12 years everyone would have to have a new car.

Because that’s the only way that works.
She's not the brightest bulb. Her fans will eat this pipe dream wankery up, though. The fossil fuel dilemma isa so much more far reaching than "electric cars in 12 years" being any kind of solution.
 
Didn’t his company put a fuckin rocket into space? I think he is doing just fine
One of the companies that he gets to take credit for does indeed produce rockets in conjunction with NASA, the airforce, and tons of aerospace engineers.
None of which logically leads me to think "hey we as a society should assign this guy more projects this important at the same time"
 
I wonder if these Hollywood elite who throw so much support to candidates like this realise that they, too, are part of the "rich", and are going to be losing a fuck load off the top if one of these hardcore socialists get in?
Some people are actual philanthropists and don't mind passing on buying another home or private pjet in order to help the needy.
 
That's a weird point to make. She isn't saying to eliminate cars altogether. People would still be able to buy cars - they'd just be electric.
I should of expanded, there are a lot of older cars on the road, I don't know what the % is but a lot of rural areas would not be able to stop using fossil fuel in 12 years. I don't even see it in 30 years.
 
Lolz. Of course half my post wasn't about her proposal because it was a direct reply to your post, section for section with what you posted that wasn't about the proposal either.Way to deflect.

Seems you misunderstood. I said that people are dismissing her proposal for reasons that have nothing to do with the quality of the proposal. You then started explaining all of the reasons that have nothing to do with the quality of the proposal that justify dismissing her proposal.

It wasn't a reply to my post - it was a demonstration of the faulty logic that I said is seems prevalent related to her.


In three years a model 3 used may not be 35k, but if the Model S has taught us anything it won't be cheap either. There is a good portion of the country that can only afford the cheapest of cheap cars, rather than a 5-8 year old car. A 10 year old model 3 may not ever be $1500 for all we know. Anything is possible, but there are a lot of hopeful and optimistic projections involved in regards to entirely eliminating fossil fuels while simultaneously maintaining cheap car purchases so quickly. The entire landscape of cars would vastly change, so say by 2029 there could be a vast inventory of "cheap used electric cars" for low income to shop around. It would have to be there though, or we'll run into some real issues years after. They would need to be cheap in a way where I bought my first car for $850 types of options too, because you won't be buying fossil fuel cars in 2031 while they go into near extinction. 18-20 years sounds a bit more realistic and attainable than 12 if we are talking about eventually removing fossil fuels from utility. But you have to plan for it correctly to get the best outcome or you are forced to do damage control at the tail end.

Being that it was a response to how she would fund the NGD, it sounds more like "through 70% taxing". The answer she gave is in regards to funding the plan. She even mentioned FDR being "radical" by establishing Social Security. It's the same answer she always tends to give though for any subject when asked, "tax rich people high and we can pay for all the plans" runs pretty generic. Taxing over 10mil 70% sounds cute on paper, but I can't imagine that not creating a multitude of issues as a result that can likely do more harm than good.

In 6 years is what I said. Not 3. As for hopeful and and optimistic projections, that's amusing considering that your entire argument is premised on pessimistic assumptions.

Why would cars need to be as cheap as what you bought in some unspecified year? Remember that thing about projections and assumptions - are we just assuming that technological advancements are not going to take place over the next dozen years thus driving down the prices for outdated technology? It happens in pretty much every industry but somehow it won't happen with cars?

11 years ago, the iPhone was debuted. It cost $500. Nowadays, you can buy a brand new more technologically advanced smartphone for $50. 1/10th of the price in a decade's time. This happens with pretty much everything. Stop worrying about poor people buying electric cars 12 years from now, the prices for used cars will come down as the technology increases.

As for the taxes, you didn't listen to the video very well. She was talking about the entire economy - that people need to pay their fair share and that 60-70% on high income.

As for imagining a multitude of issues - such as? Raising taxes causes issues. Cutting taxes causes issue. Every change from the status quo comes with "issues" because it forces change on a static system. "Oh no there will be issues" isn't an argument, it's just chicken little-ing an issue.

And it's stupid to claim that she gave a generic answer when she took the time to reference prior tax policy as justification for proposed tax policy that would be lower in terms of upper end rates than the time period that she is referencing. Let me guess, you heard Anderson say it would require higher taxes, heard her say "yeah..." and then stopped listening to her explanation for why higher taxes are viable and necessary?
 
Unless GM starts making 455 horsepower electric Camaros, I'll keep putting gas in my cars thank you very much.

As far as the tax thing is concerned, if we made it 70 percent for top earners, the rich will take their money and leave the country like they did in France... and they left when it hit 50 percent. It's bad enough that rich people here hide their money in off shore accounts now... wait till it hits 70.
Let's tarriff any rich people that try to shelter their money and that would put a stop to it right quick.
 
Good for her. Real change will only happen when people make it happen. I wish she was president. Making the richest 1% pay more in taxes would make a lot of things affordable. Universal health care/education, infrastructure improvements, etc.
these are separate issues, and I dont think any single president can tackle more than one at once. I dont have issues with 70% tax, simply expand tax brackets infinitely, and you'll get there or above, it's simple math and if done right, should only effect the top 0.1 percent that probably have their hands in some form of manipulation.

having it pay for "Green New deal"? GTFO.

take care of health care first, you wont have much left for anything else.
 
I'd be okay with an increase in capital gains taxes, inheritance taxes..maintaining corporate taxes... and then just repealing the Federal Income tax all together as a trade off. Taxing income is pretty nefarious to begin with imo.
Do we have any economist in here that can state this is possible? I have to admit it sounds too good to be true.
 
I should of expanded, there are a lot of older cars on the road, I don't know what the % is but a lot of rural areas would not be able to stop using fossil fuel in 12 years. I don't even see it in 30 years.

Sure, there will always been some legacy vehicles on the road for people willing to spend the money to keep them operating.

But as fossil fuel cars leave the road, so will the economic interest in keeping gas stations operating. The economic pressure will lead to conversion, just to ensure market share. Some places will take longer than others.

Let me use a car example - you can still find people who own cars without seatbelts. The law only went into place in 1968. But as far as the market itself is concerned, we've moved on. Those people and those cars are outliers, pretty much irrelevant to any conversation about vehicle safety.

If you want a more modern example, use airbags. The law was passed in 1991 and fully in effect by 1998.
 
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