Economy "Radical" Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

[VivaRevolution]

Triple? Not even double but triple? So what stops Person A or business A from jumping ship altogether? That's the last thing we want right, since if that happens we'll be getting zero tax dollars instead of millions of tax dollars paid. I can't imagine the majority of people at those income levels rolling over for triple the amount they are paying, when they are already paying significantly more than everyone else.

They aren't though. They are paying 15%.

Now, if myself, and 10 other guys together have 100$, and we pay 20% taxes, that is 20$ right.

Now you have 1000$, and pay 15% taxes. That is 150$ right.

Lower tax rate, paid more taxes.

This is what is going on with these numbers you are quoting.

 

[oldshadow]

I thought she like poor people.

So I in 12 years everyone would have to have a new car.

Because that’s the only way that works.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Uh, okay . . . now the VA and public schooling are "radical" ideas.

Anderson Cooper has infiltrated 60-Minutes???

 

[Anung Un Rama]

AOC Derangement Syndrome Epidemic LOOMS!

 

[TeTe]

2nd - we're already moving away fossil fuels. What makes 12 years crazy? We've been setting timelines for every step of the transition.

We'd still need to have gas stations for a while longer to supply all of the new gasoline cars that are sold over the next 12 years. Gas will never completely go away either, not as long as you have people that garage their collectors cars and modern day cars they don't want to give up.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I better understand what you're saying now. Buffet pays less on taxes "overall" because his investments are taxed at a significantly lower rate, which makes him total around 17% or 18% or whatever it is. Yea, that's why I agree it's a delicate situation, as that is a gigantic issue that needs to be addressed, but that doesn't mean you freely toss out numbers like 70% because people have gotten paid. You and I probably have more tax rate context than Cortez uses. Long term capital gains tax rates are about as devious a rate is there is so I agree with you on that. Triple the amount I don't agree with, but starting it off at double the rate would makes sense to me and gauge the fallout that occurs.

I would honesty be OK with 70%, and this is key here, for people making over 10 million.

This means the super rich guy pays the same 10% on his first 30,000$ everyone pays. The same 14% up to 84,000$, but that all the money they make over 10 million is taxed at 70%. After their accountants get done, they will pay 30-50%, again income over 10 million.

Hell, cut taxes for those making 500k-5 million for all I care. It isn't about raising revenue for me. These rich people have too much money if they can buy our democracy.

 

[AlexDB9]

I thought she like poor people.

So I in 12 years everyone would have to have a new car.

Because that’s the only way that works.

Can’t be poor if everyone else is poor

AOC Derangement Syndrome Epidemic LOOMS!

Eh, doesn’t have the same ring to it. I still prefer she guevara

 

[panamaican]

Her wanting higher taxes on the rich isn't what's insane. It's wanting to tax up to 70% to fund one plan. It needs to be more thought out and thoroughly detailed, better planned for criticism and potential future issues that may occur if you want to bring up taxing up to 70%.

1- I pretty much agree. It is an issue that needs to be addressed. The discussion should boil down to how we address it, but in no way should it remain as is.

2- I don't think there is long term thought here. Ultimately the goal should be to move away from fossil fuel permanently, but a 12 year window to completely do away with it entirely like she is stating sounds very ambitious or naive. Electric cars haven't even fully gotten their due yet, and all cost 35k and up Some even 50-60k or more. Used electrics cost 25-30k. 12 years from now a Tesla 2020 very likely won't cost peanuts on the dollar, so you have a situation where people of very low income won't be able to afford a car because we've wiped out fossil fuel usage. Nowadays people can go down to the local car guy, buy a 2001 Toyota for cheap, and get to work or around town. If you removed fossil fuel completely in 12 years you are going to hurt those people much more than the "rich people" you target because they can afford it. The car is just one example of quite a few that would have unintended consequences affecting those with lesser amounts of money.

She is, because she says things that are either stupid, without context (tons of blanket statements), inaccurate, or without solid explanations. She is obviously a smart individual given her background and accomplishments, but has a lot to learn. Being in the forefront is going to hurt her more than help until she gains more experience.

Did you listen to what she said? She said it's ambitious. She acknowledges that it's expensive - hence the tax increase.

In order to get off fossil fuels within 12 years, we will have to rapidly accelerate our efforts to do so. It will be costly. In order to handle the costs, we need to increase the marginal tax rate on the highest income ranges in the country. Yes, the proposed rate is very high however there is precedent for such high marginal rates within the last 80 years.

There's nothing stupid, without context, inaccurate or without explanation.

People might not agree with it but it's hardly insane. This is why I said it's starting to appear that no matter what she says it's just going to be dismissed as unworkable.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Eh, doesn’t have the same ring to it. I still prefer she guevara

lol, that is good. Better get an MRI though, if she takes up any more space in your heads you might have a seizure.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

Ocasio-Cortez is very attractive.

Wood. Even more with the crazy eyes.

 

[curryjunkie]

I'm not sure what's insane about that?

1st - our tax brackets stop way too low given the actual income ranges. When someone can earn $10/yr it makes no sense that their tax bracket is the same as the guy making $500k. The guy making $500k has a higher tax bracket than the guy making $20k but not a lower one than the guy making tens of millions. That certainly needs to be addressed.

2nd - we're already moving away fossil fuels. What makes 12 years crazy? We've been setting timelines for every step of the transition.

It's starting to feel like AOC is going to be the new GOP whipping post - no matter what she says it's going to be labelled as unworkable.

it staggers me that you are a right leaning poster, come over to the dark side...

 

[panamaican]

We'd still need to have gas stations for a while longer to supply all of the new gasoline cars that are sold over the next 12 years. Gas will never completely go away either, not as long as you have people that garage their collectors cars and modern day cars they don't want to give up.

That may be but usually when people make these types of proposals, it's assumed that certain things will be grandfathered and gradually fade away with time. People will garage their collectors cars and modern cars but as companies stop making fossil fuel cars, they'll also stop servicing those cars and stop making the parts. As companies replace gas pumps with whatever it is they use for electric vehicles, fewer people will drive those grandfathered cars because of the difficulty in finding a gas station.

I don't think legacy vehicles will be that big an impact. The average American only owns a new car for 6 years and the average age of a car on the road is right around 12 years anyway. If we stop making fossil fuel cars in 12 years, they'll be probably 99% off the roads within another 12 years after that.

 

[AlexDB9]

lol, that is good. Better get an MRI though, if she takes up any more space in your heads you might have a seizure.

She’s spunky I like her. I know my communist woman Yeah she’s crazy, but I think with a competent VP she could make a run in the next decade....but like I said she seems pretty crazy

 

[panamaican]

it staggers me that you are a right leaning poster, come over to the dark side...

The math on the tax brackets doesn't make sense for the government. It just drives up the debt. Every right leaning poster should take a look at the debt, the tax brackets and reach the same conclusion.

I don't agree with her on the 12 years thing but I don't think it's an unworkable proposal. Her reasoning is sound, you will need an aggressive push to make it happen. I think you probably should make it a 20 year window.

But people gave Musk a ton of props for making these overly aggressive predictions for his companies and credited him for setting the standard high. JFK set a crazy timeline for making it to the moon. People credited his chutzpah. I don't see how this is any different.

 

[det_regnar_på_vår_kärlek]

People in the US have been brainwashed by right wing propaganda

 

[TeTe]

That may be but usually when people make these types of proposals, it's assumed that certain things will be grandfathered and gradually fade away with time. People will garage their collectors cars and modern cars but as companies stop making fossil fuel cars, they'll also stop servicing those cars and stop making the parts. As companies replace gas pumps with whatever it is they use for electric vehicles, fewer people will drive those grandfathered cars because of the difficulty in finding a gas station.

I don't think legacy vehicles will be that big an impact. The average American only owns a new car for 6 years and the average age of a car on the road is right around 12 years anyway. If we stop making fossil fuel cars in 12 years, they'll be probably 99% off the roads within another 12 years after that.

I'm all for options and people being able to buy electric cars, but I don't like the government mandating it.

And as long as there is still demand for gas powered cars, their will be a manufacturer and as long as people need gas to run those cars, there will gas stations. Maybe 50 years from now it'll be the complete opposite of what we have now.. very few gas stations but a shit ton of charging stations. Options are good.

I mean, OE's stopped making parts for 1969 Mustangs and Camaros a long time ago, but that doesn't mean that you can't buy them aftermarket still.

 

[Canada]

Did you listen to what she said? She said it's ambitious. She acknowledges that it's expensive - hence the tax increase.

In order to get off fossil fuels within 12 years, we will have to rapidly accelerate our efforts to do so. It will be costly. In order to handle the costs, we need to increase the marginal tax rate on the highest income ranges in the country. Yes, the proposed rate is very high however there is precedent for such high marginal rates within the last 80 years.

There's nothing stupid, without context, inaccurate or without explanation.

People might not agree with it but it's hardly insane. This is why I said it's starting to appear that no matter what she says it's just going to be dismissed as unworkable.

Getting off fossile fuels in 12 years is insane.

The US doesn’t have the infrastructure to supply that many electric cars, imagine the amount of electric energy you need to make available all over the country. Plus the battery technology used nowadays doesn’t scale well. It uses rare materials and the performance leaves much to be desired.

 

[brackis1]

The math on the tax brackets doesn't make sense for the government. It just drives up the debt. Every right leaning poster should take a look at the debt, the tax brackets and reach the same conclusion.

I don't agree with her on the 12 years thing but I don't think it's an unworkable proposal. Her reasoning is sound, you will need an aggressive push to make it happen. I think you probably should make it a 20 year window.

But people gave Musk a ton of props for making these overly aggressive predictions for his companies and credited him for setting the standard high. JFK set a crazy timeline for making it to the moon. People credited his chutzpah. I don't see how this is any different.

People like Musk are positioned to be the single greatest profiteers off this movement, and a high tax rate ensures the winner-take-all swings in bringing new tech/companies into positions of power over energy, autos, manufacturing etc... should have to pay up when they win big.

 

[sweetviolenturg]

I think she's awesome.
Sure, some of her plans will prove to be undoable on the timetables that she's projected & some of them not at all but at least she's got some bold new ideas.

 

[brackis1]

Getting off fossile fuels in 12 years is insane.

The US doesn’t have the infrastructure to supply that many electric cars, imagine the amount of electric energy you need. Plus the battery technology used nowadays doesn’t scale well. It uses rare materials and the performance leaves much to be desired.

Yeah we need to diversify our alternative energies and drastically reduce our consumption, not just fling batteries at the situation.