Quotes about Rickson and his JJ ability

[ozyabbas]

That video of him fighting that wrestler doesn't seem very impressive. To have the greatest of all time having his guard passed is worrying. The wrestler may be absolutely amazing but remember that we are talking about Rickson being the best at jiu jitsu of all time. But I can't imagine Roger, Mendes brothers etc being in a difficult position against someone totally new to jiu jitsu.

I guess to our generation of sport jiu jitsu guys having your guard passed is a big deal but perhaps to the older generation its not a big deal as long as they can defend and reguard. The Miyao brothers being an example. I would be more surprised to see their guard being passed than them being submitted.

 

[mikeb2675]

I simply dont buy it, it challenges common experience and reality to have someone who never really entered the major competition circuits of BJJ (because they didnt existed, he was focused on MMA etc etc), and suddenly he is miles ahead of any major grappler.

Even the likes of Roger get tapped during training and have ups and downs, the most dominants practitioners of any sport have ups a downs sometimes, or they are only dominant in competition at 100% all the time.

Yet Rickson persona has this TMA mysticism.

The only footage of Rickson i can find, shows that while he is good, he is no super human.

Here watch this, he is fighting your average former college wrestler with ZERO BJJ background and they school Rickson who only wins because the wrestler is oblivious at what to do.
[YT]Fngsgye5cg4[/YT]

I love the comments with the video.

The wrestler looks huge and like a wrestler gained top control...and like a jiu jitsu practioner, Rickson proceeded to submit him.

Are there pins in street fights? Rickson did what he was supposed to do...tap the guy.

Peace.

 

[LocalNmass]

That video of him fighting that wrestler doesn't seem very impressive. To have the greatest of all time having his guard passed is worrying. The wrestler may be absolutely amazing but remember that we are talking about Rickson being the best at jiu jitsu of all time. .

He did tap the guy in under 2 minutes.
I'm not familiar with rules etc. but is it a guard pass if the guy never gets/has guard, and did Rickson have have from the cradle? Correct me, but it looked like a front headlock, to cradle, then Rickson gets guard, looks to hook/elevator sweep, closes guard, then opens up and get the armbar.

But I can't imagine Roger, Mendes brothers etc being in a difficult position against someone totally new to jiu jitsu.

I guess to our generation of sport jiu jitsu guys having your guard passed is a big deal but perhaps to the older generation its not a big deal as long as they can defend and reguard. The Miyao brothers being an example. I would be more surprised to see their guard being passed than them being submitted.

Which of those guy would have stood with a heavy weight wrestler? They'd all likely jump/pull guard.

 

[Tirofijo2001]

I simply dont buy it, it challenges common experience and reality to have someone who never really entered the major competition circuits of BJJ (because they didnt existed, he was focused on MMA etc etc), and suddenly he is miles ahead of any major grappler.

Even the likes of Roger get tapped during training and have ups and downs, the most dominants practitioners of any sport have ups a downs sometimes, or they are only dominant in competition at 100% all the time.

Yet Rickson persona has this TMA mysticism.

This is the opinion that I used to hold.

However, my current instructor is firmly in the camp of those that think Rickson is on another level. My instructor got his blue from Rickson, his purple and brown from Carlson himself and trained with him until his death, and then eventually got his black from Royler.

He's told stories of world champions gathering at Rickson's place after the worlds/pan ams and rolling against Rickson. While my instructor says that Rickson would lose in a IBJFF points match, he says that Rickson plays defense and eventually catches the top competitors and none of them can submit him.

I don't know why my instructor would lie to his students, so I'm inclined to believe that the instructor thinks these stories are true.

(Full disclosure: My instructor is a proponent of a very defensive, non-sports based jiu jitsu, which I assume is modeled after Rickson's philosophy. You can dismiss him as being to close to Rickson if you want.)

 

[Tirofijo2001]

If someone wants to debunk the myth of Rickson being invincible, why not approach it from the other direction?

We've already heard of top BBs with no allegiance to Rickson talk about how good he was. What about the opposite?

Is there anyone that has rolled with Rickson and said, "Meh, he's not all that special?"

 

[196osh]

Is there anyone that has rolled with Rickson and said, "Meh, he's not all that special?"

This is the only thing that to me seems strange, surely somebody would say that they were not as impressed...

In saying that I cannot see anybody beating Roger at his peak with no time limits sub only. Roger record vs Xande is amazing, in terms of how the wins happened.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I simply dont buy it, it challenges common experience and reality to have someone who never really entered the major competition circuits of BJJ (because they didnt existed, he was focused on MMA etc etc), and suddenly he is miles ahead of any major grappler.

Even the likes of Roger get tapped during training and have ups and downs, the most dominants practitioners of any sport have ups a downs sometimes, or they are only dominant in competition at 100% all the time.

Yet Rickson persona has this TMA mysticism.

The only footage of Rickson i can find, shows that while he is good, he is no super human.

Here watch this, he is fighting your average former college wrestler with ZERO BJJ background and they school Rickson who only wins because the wrestler is oblivious at what to do.
[YT]Fngsgye5cg4[/YT]

whether you buy it or not, its a matter of opinion, but your example of the wrstler is pretty stupid.

what did you expect rickson to do? stream roll a dude that, by the way, is just not another former college wrestler, whos what? 20 30 kilos heavier? it took rickson 1:47 minutes, to sub him...

by the way, he also took on markus shultz, tap him 2 times, it doesnt get any better than that. And even Markus, apparently was pretty damn impressed with him, other ways he wouldnt have started training bjj...

I find very hard to believe the myth too, but all the evidence seems to lead in the direction that he is a demy god on the mat...

 

[Uchi Mata]

This is the opinion that I used to hold.

However, my current instructor is firmly in the camp of those that think Rickson is on another level. My instructor got his blue from Rickson, his purple and brown from Carlson himself and trained with him until his death, and then eventually got his black from Royler.

He's told stories of world champions gathering at Rickson's place after the worlds/pan ams and rolling against Rickson. While my instructor says that Rickson would lose in a IBJFF points match, he says that Rickson plays defense and eventually catches the top competitors and none of them can submit him.

I don't know why my instructor would lie to his students, so I'm inclined to believe that the instructor thinks these stories are true.

(Full disclosure: My instructor is a proponent of a very defensive, non-sports based jiu jitsu, which I assume is modeled after Rickson's philosophy. You can dismiss him as being to close to Rickson if you want.)

I actually do believe this. Whatever else you want to say about Rickson, I don't think you can argue that his BJJ is sport oriented. He's clearly all about simplicity and street effectiveness so I wouldn't expect him to win in the 50/50 against Buchecha, but I could see him not being submitted by top guys especially 10 years ago or so when he was a little younger.

 

[Rod1]

I love the comments with the video.

The wrestler looks huge and like a wrestler gained top control...and like a jiu jitsu practioner, Rickson proceeded to submit him.

Are there pins in street fights? Rickson did what he was supposed to do...tap the guy.

Peace.

He had his guard passed by someone who didnt even tried to pass it, thats impressive? if the wrestler had been training BJJ for a year or 2 under modern training, he would had murdered Rickson.

So are you telling me the Rickson you saw in the video would be able to hang out with a competitive Andre Galvao for example?

If someone wants to debunk the myth of Rickson being invincible, why not approach it from the other direction?

We've already heard of top BBs with no allegiance to Rickson talk about how good he was. What about the opposite?

Is there anyone that has rolled with Rickson and said, "Meh, he's not all that special?

Nothing to gain true, but nothing to lose either.

If he is that good, why isnt he sought out by top competitiors? why arent world champs going to training camps with Rickson?

We are talking about a guy, who is so good, that his skill is head and shoulders above anyone else, the way they talk about him, is as if he was a Jet Li character.

 

[Rod1]

whether you buy it or not, its a matter of opinion, but your example of the wrstler is pretty stupid.

what did you expect rickson to do? stream roll a dude that, by the way, is just not another former college wrestler, whos what? 20 30 kilos heavier? it took rickson 1:47 minutes, to sub him...

Who didnt had any idea what to do, who didnt knew what a guard was.

by the way, he also took on markus shultz, tap him 2 times, it doesnt get any better than that. And even Markus, apparently was pretty damn impressed with him, other ways he wouldnt have started training bjj...

Mark Schults also grapplefucked him for 20 mins and was on top all the time, he lost because his submission grappling knowledge was tuck your chin and dont give your elbows that he learned in judo for gods sake. Beating wrestlers with no submission background is not impressive.

Beating Ben Askren who is a BJJ black belt on top of being a top wrestler and also being on his competitive peak (not a wrestling coach like Schultz was at the time) is impressive, and thats what world BJJ champs can do. Yet Rickson who had to run an academy and teach BJJ, while traveling around, could beat these world champs in his prime and can stall them forever?

I find very hard to believe the myth too, but all the evidence seems to lead in the direction that he is a demy god on the mat...

No it doesnt, circumstancial evidence, video evidence and common sense shows that he was good for his time int he sport of BJJ which was infant at the time.

He moved into his mysticism the moment competition geared up and then he forbade everyone of showing footage of him doing anything and all his mysticisms come from people who train with him.

 

[Rod1]

If someone wants to debunk the myth of Rickson being invincible, why not approach it from the other direction?

We've already heard of top BBs with no allegiance to Rickson talk about how good he was. What about the opposite?

Is there anyone that has rolled with Rickson and said, "Meh, he's not all that special?"

Mark Schultz comments on how he rode Rickson for 20 mins but had no idea how to finish.

George Medhi comments that Rickson was a great ground fighter but that Sylvio Behring was better than him. (even if the statement was wrong, that implies that levels werent as far off).

Maybe Rickson learned how to use his chi after he retired.

 

[Rod1]

I concur with Wanderlei Silva, he is living in a fantasy world. And the whole protect Rickson image is the worst cult aspect of BJJ.

Seriously, he called Minotauro a bad BJJer, he declared he was 100% certain he could defeat prime Fedor, he said that he could defeat Carwin and Lesnar, his refusal to fight Sakuraba and his father calling on him saying that besides the Zulu fights and the ones in Japan, he didnt fought other vale tudo matches.

I respected Helio the guy was a total mofo who took challenges as they came, i dont respect his kids at all they seem like BJJ brats.

 

[Spazzmaster]

I respected Helio the guy was a total mofo who took challenges as they came, i dont respect his kids at all they seem like BJJ brats.

You don't respect Royler Gracie at all? 4-time Mundial champ, 3-time Abu Dhabi champ, fought bigger, stronger, younger opponents in MMA? What a brat, right, guess he never took on any challenges.

 

[MisterRay]

Damn, I was leaning towards believing Dave Camarillo, Paulo Filho and Fabio Gurgel's testimonials about Rickson. Buuuuut, Rod1 in all of his infinite wisdom calls bullshit so I'll believe him............................

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Who didnt had any idea what to do, who didnt knew what a guard was.

again, waht the fuck did you expect rickson to do? he subed a huge wrestlers in 1:47 minutes? did you expect rickson to do some magic ninja shit?

Mark Schults also grapplefucked him for 20 mins and was on top all the time, he lost because his submission grappling knowledge was tuck your chin and dont give your elbows that he learned in judo for gods sake. Beating wrestlers with no submission background is not impressive.

grapplefucked him? being on top equals grapplefuck? rickson is not a judo boy, nor a wrestler, at those time, what did you expect again rickson to do? sweep easily and dominate a dude whos one of the best on the hitory on getting his back off the mat? who was bigger and 2x stronger than rickson? he subed him twice, thats what counts, he held rickson in a cradle, is not like rickson give a shit about being his back...

Seriusly, it seems you are expecting rickson to go jedi or something like that... get fucking real, you are not going to be on top of a wrestler as shultz, if he wants you on your back, you will be there, period, specially if you are well, not wrestler????

Beating Ben Askren who is a BJJ black belt on top of being a top wrestler and also being on his competitive peak (not a wrestling coach like Schultz was at the time) is impressive, and thats what world BJJ champs can do. Yet Rickson who had to run an academy and teach BJJ, while traveling around, could beat these world champs in his prime and can stall them forever

?

pretty impressive, I dont think many can hold ben askren down anyways.

No it doesnt, circumstancial evidence, video evidence and common sense shows that he was good for his time int he sport of BJJ which was infant at the time.

He moved into his mysticism the moment competition geared up and then he forbade everyone of showing footage of him doing anything and all his mysticisms come from people who train with him

.[/QUOTE]

well, I was talking about what every single dude he roll with, even those at the highest level has said about him... who the fuck am I to say they are all liers?

Mark Schultz comments on how he rode Rickson for 20 mins but had no idea how to finish.

and this means what? means he rod him and got submitted, did you expect rickson to get on top and hold marks back against the mat? he went on to train with rickson after that, if he wasnt impressed, why on fucking earth would he do that?

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I concur with Wanderlei Silva, he is living in a fantasy world. And the whole protect Rickson image is the worst cult aspect of BJJ.

Seriously, he called Minotauro a bad BJJer, he declared he was 100% certain he could defeat prime Fedor, he said that he could defeat Carwin and Lesnar, his refusal to fight Sakuraba and his father calling on him saying that besides the Zulu fights and the ones in Japan, he didnt fought other vale tudo matches.

I respected Helio the guy was a total mofo who took challenges as they came, i dont respect his kids at all they seem like BJJ brats.

yeah this guy royce, fought 4 vale tudo tournaments, with fights in the same night, vs different type of guys, much bigger and stonger than him, with real NHB rules, yeah he was a brat...

dude, really, fix your brain, your hate towards the gracie name has severly affected you way of thinking.

 

[pseudo genki]

For me, one very telling thing is that in a very ego-driven sport with many strong personalities who are always willing to build themselves up by putting their competitors down, no mundials medalist / ADCC star has ever claimed to have gotten the better of Rickson, even in a casual roll.

 

[Hellboy31]

No one has ever claimed to tap or get the better of rickson in training or in competition. Not one.

 

[Balto]

No one has ever claimed to tap or get the better of rickson in training or in competition. Not one.

Rolls

 

[Hellboy31]

Rolls

Ok, nobody for the last 32 years then lol