Question about tma vs mma

[teamventure09]

So, I've noticed a lot of tma guys online say that mma has too many rules so it isn't as good for self defense as tma.
Other than a lot of tma skills going out the window in a fight here's my problem; it looks like when they have tma fights or spars they are more inhibited with more rules than mma.
Everyone knows point fighting is more inhibited also I just watched a video of two kenpo guys sparring and it allowed grappling but when one guy would get mount, they would reset and stand them back up instead of continuing with ground and pound.
Doesn't all this sound like they are making excuses? Or do I just not know enough about tma?

 

[ROcknrollracing]

MMA is the most practical fight you can take part in legally. If you want realistic fights go join the Israeli army and learn Krav Maga.

 

[WolverReem]

MMA is the most practical fight you can take part in legally. If you want realistic fights go join the Israeli army and learn Krav Maga.

You don't need to join the IDF to learn krav lol they have a ton of gyms full of bullshido self defense instructors with rubber knives

 

[Woldog]

MMA is the most practical fight you can take part in legally. If you want realistic fights go join the Israeli army and learn Krav Maga.

Krav Maga is a literal joke.

 

[zapataxiv]

probably bare knocked vale tudo would be the least amount of rules
but really it's overkill
@Woldog had a great post about it in another thread.

really just learning distance how to move and strike is an advantage

and then just being able to not freeze up is important

doesn't really matter your background.

you could do that starring with markers and against multiple opps but really it's just larping

people can train tma because they like the set up and trappings

the too deadly stuff is remenant of the pre UFC days and us facing away imo

 

[ROcknrollracing]

Krav Maga is a literal joke.

it certainly can be just like every other martial art though. there are good teachers of Krav though

 

[Woldog]

it certainly can be just like every other martial art though. there are good teachers of Krav though

I'm sure there are, but 95% of instructors in it worldwide are full of shit. I've seen only one person demonstrate KM that looked legitimate. The rest are no better than the Detroit Urban Survival Tactics dickhead.

 

[panamaican]

Sounds more like you're watching the wrong TMA channels.

At the risk of repeating the same shit that gets repeated all of the time. MMA and self defense are 2 different things. And yes the rules in MMA are restrictive in the context of pure self defense. But most quality TMA instructors recognize that this is true about ALL sport fighting competitions, including the ones that they compete under (this is why old school karate didn't like sparring). Whether it's point fighting, some full contact with or without grappling, the rules dictate the strategies and techniques and that means excluding some things that would be effective in self defense.

No one credible argues against the idea that the full contact competition is the closest you're going to safely get to replicating a real world scenario and that, right now, MMA is the least restrictive competition platform.

The general point that they might try to make is not to confuse rules based fighting with non-rules based scenarios. And that a significant portion of what they're teaching can't be applied in those rules based scenarios. Not that MMA itself isn't effective. Just for an example - I teach my son to kick strangers in the balls if they try to grab him. Or that if he can grab a finger, bend it back violently to get them to release their grip (small joint manipulation). He can't use that in an MMA competition. But he can't learn the calmness under stress and pressure without some kind of fighting experience. So the trick is to provide enough competition to teach them how to think in a fighting scenario without going so far down that road that they only think in terms of the competition ruleset.

It's a balance for TMAs but not necessarily for people who are exclusively fight sport competitors.

 

[NoSmilez]

It's a good base to get started as a kid then move on to other combat sports. There are a lot of people who start MMA a little too late in life. They lack of the mobility or athleticism.

 

[JohnPJones]

Sport TMA people don’t claim they’re self defense people.

self defense TMA people don’t ever spar or pressure test.

these are generalizations, but ya know what I mean.

 

[panamaican]

Sport TMA people don’t claim they’re self defense people.

self defense TMA people don’t ever spar or pressure test.

these are generalizations, but ya know what I mean.

I think the 2nd one is changing, they're just more honest about the limitations and differences. 30 years ago, they'd just hide behind "too dangerous".

 

[Rigg9]

just ask Bass

 

[shincheckin]

Krav Maga is a literal joke.

Only in the US, just like every other combat sport besides boxing, wrestling, and MMA.

I'd bet there's some legit krav maga in Israel.

Krav maga is America's savior, because krav maga is going to MAGA!

USA USA USA

 

[JohnPJones]

I think the 2nd one is changing, they're just more honest about the limitations and differences. 30 years ago, they'd just hide behind "too dangerous".

The second might be changing very slowly but not enough to override the validity of the generalization from what I’ve seen.

 

[panamaican]

The second might be changing very slowly but not enough to override the validity of the generalization from what I’ve seen.

I can't/won't speak on the breadth of the change because I only know my corner of the world. I can only say that I know that it is changing.

 

[DoctorTaco]

Only in the US, just like every other combat sport besides boxing, wrestling, and MMA.

I'd bet there's some legit krav maga in Israel.

Krav maga is America's savior, because krav maga is going to MAGA!

USA USA USA

View attachment 1009841View attachment 1009841

Krav is very popular with cops and gravy seals, at least in my neck of the woods.

 

[duke_droese]

Krav Maga is a literal joke.

Do you condemn the actions of Hamas?

Those claims from TMA guys are pure cope.

TMA is pretty much shit as standalones (besides Judo). No high pressure sparring. 2 guys equally sized, equal genetics and equally experienced in their sport, one's a boxer and one's a karate guy, the boxer wins 9/10 even with no knowledge of kicks.

The only art that could truly be stand alone is Muay Thai or those weird kickboxing esque Kung fu styles where they have grappling as well (sanda?).

 

[WDSTK]

Shidokan Karate, Kyokushin karate, Sanshou (which you mentioned), and a Karate form that uses caged headgear (forgot name) are full contact competitions and spar hard. I take Shidokan Karate.
I also believe the athleticism of the fighter, the rules, favorable environment like a lot of room and the ability to handle and dish out the violence is more important than the type of art or technical skill in most cases if the fighters are close in size and not too great of difference between former and latter. I do agree the amount of full contact good experience the fighter gets is important. Boxers may have hundreds of fights by the time they are 21. Karate tournaments are few and far to travel for most.

https://www.bing.com/videos/rivervi...1DAF178E72EB1BD0BCCD1DAF178E72EB1BD&FORM=VIRE

 

[SandisLL]

Sport TMA people don’t claim they’re self defense people.

self defense TMA people don’t ever spar or pressure test.

these are generalizations, but ya know what I mean.

I don't agree completely. Partially you are correct.
For example one from these Kraw instructors mainly is earning for a living as TKD trainer and he also does spar with boxers and KBers ....under their rules set not secret art.

Also about SD training it is difficult to teach ppl situation awarness in nuances and reality that S/C does matter not lesser than some secret techniques.

 

[jitzmonkey]

If I understand correctly, it might be more about the approach to physical confrontations than the technique/training.

TMAs (as I understand them) have roots in armed combat where the emphasis is on one hit one kill techniques and bursts.

Definitely effective in a street self defense scenario if the technique is good.