International Putin signs mutual defence pact with North Korea, heralds 'New World Order' in meeting with Iranian president

[Cid]

I feel like something pretty big happened in 2014. Can't quite recall though.
Also, for the 900,000,000 time, the red line shit is so fucking stupid. Nobody crossed a red line. Russia -specifically Vladimir Putin- just want to rob and destroy Ukraine, period. They weren't provoked. Do us all a favor and say that out loud a few times. They weren't provoked. Nobody provoked them, they aren't defending themselves, they aren't fighting for "security concerns". Ukraine is a juicy apple sitting on a crate and Putin simply wants it because he is a greedy megalomaniac

The red line was they threw out his puppet Yanukovych.

They dared to maintain independence.

 

[Limbo Pete]

The red line was they threw out his puppet Yanukovych.

They dared to maintain independence.

The audacity!

 

[Blayt7hh]

How about this, I will answer with a counter question which if you can answer will in turn answer your question

What was so bad about the Soviet Union placing nukes in Cuba (Aka the Cuban missile crisis)?

How is this directly relevant the issues going on today in Ukraine with the possibility of NATO expansion?

Answer this based on your understanding and we can see where your head is on this one.
Some resources to help you if necessary:

https://www.reuters.com/markets/rates-bonds/russia-says-ukraine-could-turn-into-re-run-cuban-missile-crisis-2021-12-09/

Are you saying that NATO was trying to nuke Russia?

Try again but less nonsense this time

 

[NoSmilez]

This ain't new. This is the axis of evil

 

[Blayt7hh]

If Ukrainians want to be conquered, they can always just surrender. We're not forcing them to fight back; just helping them. I can't imagine thinking that just leaving them to slaughter is morally acceptable.

These bozos really have lost any shred of dignity they may have once had with these arguments. This is one they’ve been using for a while no- blaming Ukrainian deaths on the west for arming them. It feels like something you write when you’re fishing for an argument but then realize that’s crap and delete it before posting. But they go through with it because it’s a regurgitated talking point they get from Russian propaganda outlets. I feel like deep down they can’t possibly be so stupid that they don’t recognize this is rubbish. Maybe I’m wrong and they really are that dumb though

 

[Possum Jenkins]

North Korea Sent Russia Millions of Artillery Shells: South Korea

Seoul says it has detected at least 10,000 shipping containers being sent from North Korea to Russia.

time.com

North Korea has given Russia around 5 million shells.


Europe on the other hand struggles to get Ukraine 1 million

EU Shell-Production Capacity, Supplies To Ukraine Fall Far Short Of Promises

The European Union’s capacity to produce 155 mm artillery ammunition may be one-half to one-third of public estimates by senior EU officials, Schemes and its partners in a journalistic investigation found. And the EU has given Ukraine about half of the 1 million shells it promised by March 2024.

www.rferl.org

Impressive.

North Korea has also out-sent NATO in soldiers provided 10,000 to 0.

This doesn't mean NATO isn't backing Ukraine to a significant degree and has been doing so for a decade. Ukraine is a fairly large country but there's just no way it holds off the #2-3 military in the world for three years without tons of help from the group of rich countries in the world.

 

[Rod1]

Impressive.

North Korea has also out-sent NATO in soldiers provided 10,000 to 0.

This doesn't mean NATO isn't backing Ukraine to a significant degree and has been doing so for a decade. Ukraine is a fairly large country but there's just no way it holds off the #2-3 military in the world for three years without tons of help from the group of rich countries in the world.

But it also means Russia isn't fighting alone.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

But it also means Russia isn't fighting alone.

Yeah, the longer this goes, the more other countries get involved. This is another argument against the military solution. Russia is already getting friendlier with North Korea, they might draw Iran in given their trouble with US-backed Israel. If China joins, it's reaaaaally bad.

 

[Rod1]

Yeah, the longer this goes, the more other countries get involved. This is another argument against the military solution.

You still have not said what is your idea on how to bring Ukraine and Russia to negotiate.

Russia is already getting friendlier with North Korea, they might draw Iran in given their trouble with US-backed Israel. If China joins, it's reaaaaally bad.

China isn't going to join Russia, unlike Russia which is a banana Republic with the GDP of Brazil China is actually a world power with a very interconnected economy that can't be replaced both as an exporter and as an importer.

 

[Cole train]

You still have not said what is your idea on how to bring Ukraine and Russia to negotiate.


China isn't going to join Russia, unlike Russia which is a banana Republic with the GDP of Brazil China is actually a world power with a very interconnected economy that can't be replaced both as an exporter and as an importer.

Russia quite literally fits the definition of a world power.i actually checked the definition

"a country that has enough economic or political strength to influence events in many other countries" cambridge dictionary

Big amount of influence in 3 different continents

 

[blaseblase]

I totally understand NATO not allowing Ukraine in before all the reforms were completed but in hindsight they made a massive mistake.

When the West and Russia both pushed for Ukraine to give up its nukes, Ukraine should have demanded and been given a full security agreement with NATO or the UN, to do so.

NO, not NATO membership (yet) but a promise if they agree to disarm that they would be protected from attack within their borders.

I cannot even see how that ask would be seen as unreasonable when it was the West and Russia asking them to voluntarily disarm.

What they should have done is kept their nukes. You don't see nuclear powers being invaded.

 

[Cid]

Yeah, the longer this goes, the more other countries get involved. This is another argument against the military solution. Russia is already getting friendlier with North Korea, they might draw Iran in given their trouble with US-backed Israel. If China joins, it's reaaaaally bad.

C'mon bro there is less than zero chance of China getting involved.

Iran and NK are fleecing Russian military tech. They get something in return for helping Russia. They are already social pariahs.

China on the other hand has the highest military R&D budget in the world and they're already reaping the benefits of cheap energy.

With an incredibly strong reliance on Western trade the downside is astronomically huge while the upside is non existent.

Fuck up everything to help a country that took Chinese territory in the hundred years of humiliation take some other countries territory???

Ain't happening.

 

[Cid]

What they should have done is kept their nukes. You don't see nuclear powers being invaded.

Uh?????

Sure about that?

 

[Rod1]

Russia quite literally fits the definition of a world power.i actually checked the definition

"a country that has enough economic or political strength to influence events in many other countries" cambridge dictionary

Big amount of influence in 3 different continents

That's got to be the most ambiguous definition ever.

That would make Malta a world power, since they have veto power on the EU and that gives them political strength to influence events in many other countries.

I think world and regional power are better definitions, China is a world power because its like top 3 trade partner of every single nation on earth in every continent, and the stuff they buy and sell are things like are not easily replaced in markets.

This is a two edge sword for China, yes, the stuff they sell isn't easily replaced but that means their customers aren't easily replaced either.

 

[Cole train]

That's got to be the most ambiguous definition ever.

That would make Malta a world power, since they have veto power on the EU and that gives them political strength to influence events in many other countries.

I think world and regional power are better definitions, China is a world power because its like top 3 trade partner of every single nation on earth in every continent, and the stuff they buy and sell are things like are not easily replaced in markets.

This is a two edge sword for China, yes, the stuff they sell isn't easily replaced but that means their customers aren't easily replaced either.

Eh i agree about definitions problems , i asked chatgp and it gave a longer definition but russia fits that as well, cant escape the fact that russia has significant presence in 3 different continents

Not USA or China but right after them (EU is actually losing influence right now, european reddit section has news about this every week)

 

[Possum Jenkins]

You still have not said what is your idea on how to bring Ukraine and Russia to negotiate.

Well I'm not a diplomat so I can't give details. Ukraine giving up some of the Russian-dominated areas will probably be included, along with Russia removing their forces from the border.

I do know the official US stance is to continue to pump billions' worth of weapons there so it's not happening any time soon.

China isn't going to join Russia, unlike Russia which is a banana Republic with the GDP of Brazil China is actually a world power with a very interconnected economy that can't be replaced both as an exporter and as an importer.

Let's hope not. China's already much, much friendlier with them than they are with the West. The last BRICS conference apparently went really well.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

C'mon bro there is less than zero chance of China getting involved.

Iran and NK are fleecing Russian military tech. They get something in return for helping Russia. They are already social pariahs.

China on the other hand has the highest military R&D budget in the world and they're already reaping the benefits of cheap energy.

With an incredibly strong reliance on Western trade the downside is astronomically huge while the upside is non existent.

Fuck up everything to help a country that took Chinese territory in the hundred years of humiliation take some other countries territory???

Ain't happening.

Thing is, great powers always seek to expand and solidify their sphere of influence. While Russia is the weaker of the great powers and stagnant, China is absolutely rising and is probably going to overtake the US as #1 in GDP in the next decades.

It's no coincidence that the friction over Taiwan and the South China Sea has flared up in the last years (and not, say, in the 70s, 80s or 90s). China is aware of their power and wants to project it in its region.

And who's giving them shit? Yup, NATO/the US/the West.

Not saying it's a for sure thing but it's definitely possible.

 

[Cid]

Thing is, great powers always seek to expand and solidify their sphere of influence. While Russia is the weaker of the great powers and stagnant, China is absolutely rising and is probably going to overtake the US as #1 in GDP in the next decades.

It's no coincidence that the friction over Taiwan and the South China Sea has flared up in the last years (and not, say, in the 70s, 80s or 90s). China is aware of their power and wants to project it in its region.

And who's giving them shit? Yup, NATO/the US/the West.

Not saying it's a for sure thing but it's definitely possible.

You are a brain washed irredeemable piece of human garbage.

 

[Limbo Pete]

You are a brain washed irredeemable piece of human garbage.

I belly laughed
Edit: seriously, right in the funny bone

 

[Rod1]

I do know the official US stance is to continue to pump billions' worth of weapons there so it's not happening any time soon.

What do you think would the appetite of Russia to negotiate would be if the US stopped pumping billions into Ukraine?

a) Russia would be more willing to negotiate if Ukraine was weaker.

b) Russia would be less willing to negotiate if Ukraine was weaker.

c) Nothing would change.

Because it seems to me like Russia would feel less inclined to go to a negotiation table if they believe they can get away with the military solution.