'Prometheus' and 'Alien Covenant' explained

[Monkadelic]

Ive been re watching the Alien series and watched Prometheus last night. I enjoyed it I thought it was a pretty entertaining film. I think it was edited poorly. Id loves to see a directors cut. Seems like a movie that cut an hour out and kept the stupid shit instead of the Lore.

3 was way better than I remember and Resurrection is a steaming pile of dogshit

I rewatched Prometheus last night and liked it even less than before So much about it seemed so daft. Not so much the story of the Engineers and whatnot, but all the human stuff. The apparent lack of intelligence involved in the whole enterprise is disappointing.

Why were the team not informed about the mission specifics before they arrived? Surely that's a recipe for disaster when you bring along an unstable twat like Sean Harris (who is always brilliant, but who thought it was a good idea to include him on this mission?!), who might well flip out almost immediately ... Ah. There he goes, and he's taking the biologist with him. And now they're lost.

Ah well, that biologist seems pretty level headed. If they come across some sort of alien creature hopefully the he'll be able to read the most basic physical signs and hopefully keep Sean safe. At the very least, most people will likely keep their distance if an animal is presenting like a cobra, for example. Don't need to go anywhere near anything like that. Wait, what are you doing? I said you don't need to go anywhere near ...!

I know these aren't new or uncommon gripes. They just bug me more each time I've seen the film.

Having Guy Pearce as Weyland annoyed me as well. Why not use an older actor?

 

[Monkadelic]

Calling bullshit on this. The xenomorphs are destructive, not creative. Humans have muralized lesser species throughout time.

Times of Grace reps.

 

[San Marino]

Interesting story and great comments below it.

"Alien is Awakening! Ridley Scott says the Alien: Covenant sequel needs to re-evolve the story!"

Link: Alien is Awakening! Ridley Scott says the Alien: Covenant sequel needs to re-evolve the story! #Alien (alien-covenant.com)

 

[BisexualMMA]

Interesting story and great comments below it.

"Alien is Awakening! Ridley Scott says the Alien: Covenant sequel needs to re-evolve the story!"

Link: Alien is Awakening! Ridley Scott says the Alien: Covenant sequel needs to re-evolve the story! #Alien (alien-covenant.com)

"It looks like Scott has learned not to listen to the angry fan boy mobs who refuse to give up their ideological views of this franchise and venture off into unknown, more thought provoking territory."

This is such immature "journalism." How about taking some responsibility for their own crappy scripts.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

There has been talk of DIsney putting out UHD versions of Aliens, Alien 3, etc which tends to suggest there paying a bit more attension to the franchise again after the Fox takeover.

"It looks like Scott has learned not to listen to the angry fan boy mobs who refuse to give up their ideological views of this franchise and venture off into unknown, more thought provoking territory."

This is such immature "journalism." How about taking some responsibility for their own crappy scripts.

Not really sure this applies to Alien does it? I mean one thing I think you can say about the Scott prequels is they didnt give in to any cheap political trolling. Would be hard to rattle the cages of alt right man children with Alien given how clear its feminist/anti capitalist leanings have always been.

 

[BisexualMMA]

Not really sure this applies to Alien does it? I mean one thing I think you can say about the Scott prequels is they didnt give in to any cheap political trolling. Would be hard to rattle the cages of alt right man children with Alien given how clear its feminist/anti capitalist leanings have always been.

It seems like just more of the new normal. If a movie doesn't go over well then the filmmakers and/or journalists decide what the reason was (right or wrong) and label people who didn't like the movie as whatever -ist or -phobe will keep them from having to honestly assess the quality of the film. The movie never fails because it was poorly made or written.

In this case it's kind of a weird one because the boogeyman culprit is "manbabies who wanted to see more xenomorphs" so it's kind of refreshing I suppose that they aren't saying it was because of strong female characters. For reasons you stated, it would be kind of hard to pretend that was suddenly an issue for those who watch Alien movies, but I wouldn't put it past some people to try. It didn't stop them with Terminator: Dark Fate.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

It seems like just more of the new normal. If a movie doesn't go over well then the filmmakers and/or journalists decide what the reason was (right or wrong) and label people who didn't like the movie as whatever -ist or -phobe will keep them from having to honestly assess the quality of the film. The movie never fails because it was poorly made or written.

In this case it's kind of a weird one because the boogeyman culprit is "manbabies who wanted to see more xenomorphs" so it's kind of refreshing I suppose that they aren't saying it was because of strong female characters. For reasons you stated, it would be kind of hard to pretend that was suddenly an issue for those who watch Alien movies, but I wouldn't put it past some people to try. It didn't stop them with Terminator: Dark Fate.

I mean really what you'd seen is hollywood co opting the kind of PR work that "centralist" politicians started to use strongly from the late 00's, a strong focus on tokenism and a focus on attacks on the credibility of an opponent via labling them racist, sexist, etc. Part of the way you achieve this is I'd say is to make sure you get some reaction from actual bigots, they want the alt right drawn to Starwars for example because they help give it the appearance of importance, that Rey is some feminist icon of substance and make it easier to lable any criticism as born of bigotry.

Its the sad reality that Hollywood themselves helped turn these fanbases somewhat toxic, I'v been posted on the net about Starwars for 20+ years and its only in the last 5 that I'v noticed sexism become a significant issue, still not I think were the majority of criticism is coming from but the bigotry there is was draw in by design, Disney trolled the alt right in for PR purposes turning Starwars into a "cultural war" battleground.

It does as you say seem like its just a reflex action from the kind of hacks involved in this PR work to reach for "toxic fanbase" but really I can't see this appling to the Alien prequels. Not only wasnt gender, race, etc not a significant issue within them but honestly neither was a lack of xenomoprhes and Covent was heavily criticized for trying to shoehorn them in.

 

[BisexualMMA]

Its the sad reality that Hollywood themselves helped turn these fanbases somewhat toxic, I'v been posted on the net about Starwars for 20+ years and its only in the last 5 that I'v noticed sexism become a significant issue, still not I think were the majority of criticism is coming from but the bigotry there is was draw in by design, Disney trolled the alt right in for PR purposes turning Starwars into a "cultural war" battleground.

Shrink down the black guy in the poster depending on where you're selling your product and simultaneously claim to be the moral authority and the tip of the spear in fighting bigotry. Go get em Mickey...

 

[The Clinch]

Prometheus was such a let down I figured I wouldn’t watch it’s sequel. Dumbass movie

Covenant came out, I was at the theater watching it. Absolute dross

Again, not planning on watching anymore of these Alien “not prequels/sequels” prequel/sequels.. but i prolly will.

although avp 1 was so bad i havent seen the follow up to it. Avp 1 is the worst of all the Alien/Predator movies, and that includes the newest joke of a Predator movie.

 

[Misanthropist]

They never explained what happened to that derelict space jockey ship that Ripley's crew found and they didn't even show how it was crashed in the prequels.

Hopefully, they'll show it in the Awakening.

 

[Hidden_Hand]

I wouldn't get your hopes up as Ridley Scott has already said himself they have no intention of finishing this story and they want to go into a new direction exploring fresh ideas.

They fucked up, they tried to create this incredible world and ending up ruining their own timeline and shitting on the original. Fans are too smart, they will dissect every little detail and string theories and stories exposing holes.

In reality, the fans care more about this universe than the actual filmmakers do so we will never be satisfied and never have the answers we want.

The imagination is always more fun than the truth so whatever they do will leave us saying WTF? There is no special story or movie they can do that would blow us away. The fact is we have too many clever fans who create videos and theories these days, back in the 70s everything was fresh and special and mind-blowing, it was a unique time period. What is fresh and unique today? We all want something that can't be done.

The internet has taken that from us.

My biggest question that no one seems to address is who created the spores? The spores are the most effective way to infest the host, they are genetically cunning and perfect, blending in with the environment and the spores are super aggressive and spawn the Neomorphs which grow rapidly. In every sense the spores are superior to the face-huggers.

Lastly, who the fuck actually thinks that fucking poster with Christian Bale from Terminator Salvation badly photoshopped on is the actual Alien 5 poster? He still has white background around him from the bad fucking photoshop for Christ's sake. Then one guy starts defending it FFS

Some of you on here are seriously clever but fuck me there are retards on here.

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

Interesting story and great comments below it.

"Alien is Awakening! Ridley Scott says the Alien: Covenant sequel needs to re-evolve the story!"

Link: Alien is Awakening! Ridley Scott says the Alien: Covenant sequel needs to re-evolve the story! #Alien (alien-covenant.com)

Ridley Scott is such an asshole. Does he not understand that answering all of these questions “where do the xenomorphs come from?” “Who was the space jockey?” “Why were those eggs on his ship?” are the questions that did not need answering, and that trying to answer those questions takes away from horror and mystery of the original movie?

Seriously, what is fucking wrong with that man?

 

[BisexualMMA]

Ridley Scott is such an asshole. Does he not understand that answering all of these questions “where do the xenomorphs come from?” “Who was the space jockey?” “Why were those eggs on his ship?” are the questions that did not need answering, and that trying to answer those questions takes away from horror and mystery of the original movie?

Seriously, what is fucking wrong with that man?

At the very least, he shouldn't have such brazen confidence in his lousy answers.

The Empire Strikes Back filled in all kinds of unknowns about Star Wars in a great way. The Godfather 2 told the backstory of Vito in a great way.

Highlander 2 filled out the mythos of the immortals in a god awful dog shit way. The Star Wars prequels answered all kinds of questions in a dog shit way.

The Prometheus and Covenant series thus far has not been The Empire Strikes Back.

I would have probably left those questions unanswered if I were in Ridley's shoes, but if I were to try to answer them, I would have taken more steps to ensure the answers were good ones. A high risk move...answers that actually make the series better are a pretty small target to aim for.

 

[San Marino]

My biggest question that no one seems to address is who created the spores? The spores are the most effective way to infest the host, they are genetically cunning and perfect, blending in with the environment and the spores are super aggressive and spawn the Neomorphs which grow rapidly.

Spores evolved from the black goo. Many of these questions are answered on the special DVD edition of the movies. Much of it can also be found on YouTube videos.

 

[Hidden_Hand]

'Alien Awakening' is finished, it is due for release in October of this year.

Spores evolved from the black goo. Many of these questions are answered on the special DVD edition of the movies. Much of it can also be found on YouTube videos.

And Ridley has already said to effect that the questions we have won't be answered.

I guarantee you that nothing changes with the next one.

 

[Hidden_Hand]

Ridley Scott is such an asshole. Does he not understand that answering all of these questions “where do the xenomorphs come from?” “Who was the space jockey?” “Why were those eggs on his ship?” are the questions that did not need answering, and that trying to answer those questions takes away from horror and mystery of the original movie?

Seriously, what is fucking wrong with that man?

I adore Ridley Scott as a director he is one the greatest but Ridley is NOT a writer and it shows. This is where his weaknesses really become a problem.

He doesn't understand mystery or story telling, he just hand picks scripts and injects his style. He is heavily guided with the story and structure.

Any writer understands that mystery is in fact the greatest element of any story.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

At the very least, he shouldn't have such brazen confidence in his lousy answers.

The Empire Strikes Back filled in all kinds of unknowns about Star Wars in a great way. The Godfather 2 told the backstory of Vito in a great way.

Highlander 2 filled out the mythos of the immortals in a god awful dog shit way. The Star Wars prequels answered all kinds of questions in a dog shit way.

The Prometheus and Covenant series thus far has not been The Empire Strikes Back.

I would have probably left those questions unanswered if I were in Ridley's shoes, but if I were to try to answer them, I would have taken more steps to ensure the answers were good ones. A high risk move...answers that actually make the series better are a pretty small target to aim for.

I mean really I can't say any of this spoils the originals for me and I really wonder about the mentality of people who think it does. Perhaps if you were dealing with a story that was obviously unfinished depending on a sequel but I'v no problem watching Alien and disregarding these prequels.

I adore Ridley Scott as a director he is one the greatest but Ridley is NOT a writer and it shows. This is where his weaknesses really become a problem.

He doesn't understand mystery or story telling, he just hand picks scripts and injects his style. He is heavily guided with the story and structure.

Any writer understands that mystery is in fact the greatest element of any story.

Well realistically this isnt true, he does clearly understand storytelling even if he's not a writer himself, its moreso that I think since the late 80's he has been willing to comprise, he's been a high end director for hire not really an auteur of his first few films.

Prometheus was a film infected with the JJ Abrams clique style crackhead script writting were logic and charatcer depth go out the window in favour of just throwing things at the viewers face as fast as possible in the hope they won't notice. Covenet was just a mess of different ideas most likely heavily influenced by studio execs.

 

[BisexualMMA]

I mean really I can't say any of this spoils the originals for me and I really wonder about the mentality of people who think it does. Perhaps if you were dealing with a story that was obviously unfinished depending on a sequel but I'v no problem watching Alien and disregarding these prequels.

I'm able to do it but I prefer to not be put to that work. It takes some effort to pretend something didn't happen.

I have to pretend I didn't see Luke Skywalker drink walrus titty milk or creep into his nephew's bedroom with his lightsaber sticking out. I have to pretend I didn't see a Space Jockey take off his suit to reveal a blue Jason Statham.

It doesn't make the original Alien or Star Wars a piece of crap but it does put me to some extra work in order to fully enjoy the originals that I'd rather not have to do.

 

[Hidden_Hand]

I mean really I can't say any of this spoils the originals for me and I really wonder about the mentality of people who think it does. Perhaps if you were dealing with a story that was obviously unfinished depending on a sequel but I'v no problem watching Alien and disregarding these prequels.



Well realistically this isnt true, he does clearly understand storytelling even if he's not a writer himself, its moreso that I think since the late 80's he has been willing to comprise, he's been a high end director for higher not really an auteur of his first few films.

Prometheus was a film infected with the JJ Abrams clique style crackhead script writting were logic and charatcer depth go out the window in favour of just throwing things at the viewers face as fast as possible in the hope they won't notice. Covenet was just a mess of different ideas most likely heavily influenced by studio execs.

He understands storytelling from his directorial point of view and that is both the problem and genius of him. He is one of the greatest to ever do it but he creates his stories from 'outside' the box so to speak.

Dan O'Bannon and HR Giger made Alien what it was, Ridley just used to vision to guide them and now they are gone, look at what has happened. This is what I mean when I say he struggles with storytelling.

Someone like Cameron will never have this problem and if he does it's because he either intended it this way or he fucked up with the writing.

I've always felt Ridley sometimes struggles to have that 'spark' with his characters because he doesn't write them only directs them. That's why they often times seem clique and run of the mill typical movie characters.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

I'm able to do it but I prefer to not be put to that work. It takes some effort to pretend something didn't happen.

I have to pretend I didn't see Luke Skywalker drink walrus titty milk or creep into his nephew's bedroom with his lightsaber sticking out. I have to pretend I didn't see a Space Jockey take off his suit to reveal a blue Jason Statham.

It doesn't make the original Alien or Star Wars a piece of crap but it does put me to some extra work in order to fully enjoy the originals that I'd rather not have to do.

It's like if ten years into marriage your wife tells you she had a fivesome one time before you were married with Harvey Weinstein, Phil Spector, Jerry Sandusky and the Bagel Boss. It's like...does it really affect the quality of how the marriage has gone? No, but I'd rather not have to do the work of getting that out of my head.

Again I can't say I watch Highlander and think about the planet Karglok or Starwars and think about Vader as a whiney teen.

If anything cases an issue I would actually say its when you have a film of some quality that takes the story in a different direction, Alien 3 for example I would say is clearly a much better film than these examples yet it does clearly fuck around with the end of Aliens.

Really I think the main issue is that these films feel like a waste, we could have gotten a much better Alien film instead or indeed as mentioned potentially a better stand alone film. Prometheus does definitely have the feeling of a stand alone script repurposed into an Alien franchise film.

If anything happens with these franchises now personally I'd preffer to see a reboot, go back to the simple concepts that made, Alien, Predator, Terminator work if your going to make more films.