Crime Pregnant woman shot to death in road rage incident after deliberately hitting motorcyclist

[Cubo de Sangre]

The thing on here is, every time someone legally carrying a firearm has to use it because someone else was the aggressor, everyone questions the actions of the person acting in self defense.

This right here. Warps their view of the law and the other person's culpability for creating the deadly encounter.

 

[Neph]

This right here. Warps their view of the law and the other person's culpability for creating the deadly encounter.

Perhaps he drove safely and sensibly to her home, knocked and politely went to explain that she may have almost hit him back there and he'd like to get her insurance details. Then, the librarian came out blasting and he had to defend himself.

Could've happened, I suppose.

 

[A Very Serious Cat]

I feel if the guy was just parked outside her place taking details or something I'm firmly on his side. If he was being a Florida man and acting crazy too then I don't really know so much

 

[Mike]

There's a few assumptions you've made and I don't know if those are all true - only time and investigation will tell. I haven't yet defended the woman's actions in this incident since... why would I. She tried to run down and kill someone.

Imdid say we're going off the information available at this time. Which is just the original video linked. The only bit of speculation on my part is that he followed her home to report her location to the police.

Okay, now argue in a court that he had no other options but to chase her down over a non-lethal altercation on the road, which created a unnecessary confrontation that led to him shooting and killing her. Justify why he didn't just call the police, and absolutely had to chase her down.

There is very, VERY little justification for killing someone in most situations, let alone one where you created the environment for it to happen. I'm not saying it's a Murder One case or anything, but just going by what I've read, he's probably not walking away clean.

Why would I have to argue that? Him following her to her home doesn't create a situation where she can storm out pointing a gun at him. Even if he didn't follow her to get her location for the police, which is certainly what his defense will argue.

This right here. Warps their view of the law and the other person's culpability for creating the deadly encounter.

Seems like a lot of it is people that aren't American projecting their laws onto American cases. You can see that just by how many people think carrying a weapon, even concealed, is proof you plan to murder someone. That's not how the law works, at all. You're free to carry, and any use of a firearm will he investigated. Without an inherent bias against you because you were armed.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Perhaps he drove safely and sensibly to her home, knocked and politely went to explain that she may have almost hit him back there and he'd like to get her insurance details. Then, the librarian came out blasting and he had to defend himself.

Could've happened, I suppose.

I'm 2-0 in the last week predicting self-defense outcomes. I chalk that up to familiarizing myself with the law and facts of the case, rather than going by how I feel things maybe coulda mighta shoulda been.

 

[HereticBD]

Why would I have to argue that? Him following her to her home doesn't create a situation where she can storm out pointing a gun at him. Even if he didn't follow her to get her location for the police, which is certainly what his defense will argue.

Huh? It absolutely did create that scenario. If he doesn't follow her home, this doesn't happen. Yes, she committed a crime on the road. That's when he's supposed to call the police, not play the police.

 

[Mike]

I'm 2-0 in the last week predicting self-defense outcomes. I chalk that up to familiarizing myself with the law and facts of the case, rather than going by how I feel things maybe coulda mighta shoulda been.

Wow same here, what a coincidence. It surely couldn't be our knowledge of the laws and legal system

 

[HereticBD]

I'm 2-0 in the last week predicting self-defense outcomes. I chalk that up to familiarizing myself with the law and facts of the case, rather than going by how I feel things maybe coulda mighta shoulda been.

I too, am 2-0 this week. When this goes to trial, and the facts don't change from what we have, I'll take that bet.

 

[Mike]

Huh? It absolutely did create that scenario. If he doesn't follow her home, this doesn't happen. Yes, she committed a crime on the road. That's when he's supposed to call the police, not play the police.

What a bizarre logical leap. No, he r coming out of the house pointing a gun at him is what did that. Since that IS illegal, and following someone fleeing the scene of an assault to their residence IS NOT illegal, I'm not sure why you think this. Other than your feelings.

 

[Neph]

I'm 2-0 in the last week predicting self-defense outcomes. I chalk that up to familiarizing myself with the law and facts of the case, rather than going by how I feel things maybe coulda mighta shoulda been.

I haven't taken any such bet nor would I; I think there's room for this story to go differently but I also think your shooting laws are insane, but hey... that's your system.

 

[HereticBD]

What a bizarre logical leap. No, he r coming out of the house pointing a gun at him is what did that.

Which would not have happened if he didn't pursue her.

Why didn't he just call the police? If you can't answer that, then there's a gaping hole in your argument. He had options that would not have led to this. That's what I'm arguing, and that's what the prosecution will argue. If he doesn't have an answer, he's fucked.

 

[Mike]

Which would not have happened if he didn't pursue her.

Why didn't he just call the police? If you can't answer that, then there's a gaping hole in your argument. He had options that would not have led to this. That's what I'm arguing, and that's what the prosecution will argue. If he doesn't have an answer, he's fucked.

Because he may not have gotten her plate numbers at the scene? You know, since it was a hit and run. You guys have it seriously backwards anyway. If you are doing things you're well within your rights, and someone else assaults you, its not on you to prove you could've avoided someone else's reckless behavior. If what it sounds like on the 911 call is true, and she came out pointing a gun at him she's 100% at fault. Him following to her house doesn't give her a right to do that.

Period. Thafs what the law says.

 

[Confucamus]

Most people on motorcycles I personally come across act like assholes and think the road belongs to them. If she got fed up with them, she should not have hit them with her car. Stupid move. Even stupider is the motorcyclist following her home. 1st degree murder right there.

 

[Neph]

Because he may not have gotten her plate numbers at the scene? You know, since it was a hit and run. You guys have it seriously backwards anyway. If you are doing things you're well within your rights, and someone else assaults you, its not on you to prove you could've avoided someone else's reckless behavior. If what it sounds like on the 911 call is true, and she came out pointing a gun at him she's 100% at fault. Him following to her house doesn't give her a right to do that.

Period. Thafs what the law says.

Putting the law aside - that will be determined in due course, if he got her plate number at some point during this incident, was it a good choice to follow her home?

 

[HereticBD]

Because he may not have gotten her plate numbers at the scene?

Not his job or responsibility.

You know, since it was a hit and run. You guys have it seriously backwards anyway. If you are doing things you're well within your rights, and someone else assaults you, its not on you to prove you could've avoided someone else's reckless behavior.

Wrong. What you're talking about is vigilante justice...which is frowned upon by the law.

If what it sounds like on the 911 call is true, and she came out pointing a gun at him she's 100% at fault. Him following to her house doesn't give her a right to do that.

If she had a reason to feel threatened at her house, it certainly does.

Period. Thafs what the law says.

Don't say it, cite it.

 

[Mike]

Putting the law aside - that will be determined in due course, if he got her plate number at some point during this incident, was it a good choice to follow her home?

No. I highly doubt you could convict on that alone, but no that would likely be a decision made in anger. It's not exactly uncommon to fail to get a plate # at a hit and run though. That's why people do it. To avoid the consequences of their actions. From the info we're getting right now he was just out in front of her house. Didnt pull out his weapon, didnt try to break into her house. So I think him following her so she didn't get away with attempted vehicular homicide is likely. But we will certainly find out when this goes to trial.

 

[Mike]

Not his job or responsibility.



Wrong. What you're talking about is vigilante justice...which is frowned upon by the law.



If she had a reason to feel threatened at her house, it certainly does.



Don't say it, cite it.

Oh here comes this felt threatened shit. You a cop lmao? No, you don't get to pull a gun and go OUT of your house because TO CAUSE a confrontation. You post a link on that lol. Ridiculous. And following someone fleeing a hit and run to get their location isn't a vigilante act. Its not like he assaulted her first from the info we have. You don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Neph]

No. I highly doubt you could convict on that alone, but no that would likely be a decision made in anger. It's not exactly uncommon to fail to get a plate # at a hit and run though. That's why people do it. To avoid the consequences of their actions. From the info we're getting right now he was just out in front of her house. Didnt pull out his weapon, didnt try to break into her house. So I think him following her so she didn't get away with attempted vehicular homicide is likely. But we will certainly find out when this goes to trial.

I'm not asking about convictions, I'm asking you to answer my question about whether - if he had her plate number - he was smart to follow her home. I can't see a clear answer.

 

[brackis1]

As a conservative veteran and father who has my Harley in my Facebook cover photo, I'm going to use my expertise to declare this a great 2nd amendment victory.

 

[Mike]

I'm not asking about convictions, I'm asking you to answer my question about whether - if he had her plate number - he was smart to follow her home. I can't see a clear answer.

Really? You didn't see where I said no, that would most likely be a decision made in anger. About someone trying to kill him?

Imo it would be a poor decision made out of anger, because someone had just tried to kill him.