Preference: DA, SA, DA/SA? Hammer or Striker?

[Gallachobar]

I believe that the 1/4 hammer position makes the 1911 prone to fire when dropped. Can't remember where I read that though so no source. Browning designed the gun to be carried hammer back, safety on. Use of any quality prevents trigger manipuation

If you are carrying a 1911 for defense, it should be carried in the proper condition, round in the chamber, hammer back, safety on. That is why the proper shooting grip for the 1911 has dominate hand thumb over the safety, to ensure it is disengaged when shooting.

Because the 1911 has an inertial firing pin system, the hammer has to fall forward from further out than 1/4 **** to cause the gun to fire, all other things being equal. If we're talking dropped-on-the-muzzle, the heights necessary to cause firing pin protrusion from a drop are unrealistic anyway.

If we're going to go into the whole "what John Moses Browning wanted" thing, then it's actually the case that he originally intended the gun to be carried with the hammer down--the thumb-safety was added at the military's request.

As for proper shooting grip, trigger-hand thumb resting on top of the safety definitely is not it. That thumb goes under the safety during firing, so the gun is firmly held between the index-finger and thumb.

 

[Protectandserve]

Because the 1911 has an inertial firing pin system, the hammer has to fall forward from further out than 1/4 **** to cause the gun to fire, all other things being equal. If we're talking dropped-on-the-muzzle, the heights necessary to cause firing pin protrusion from a drop are unrealistic anyway.

If we're going to go into the whole "what John Moses Browning wanted" thing, then it's actually the case that he originally intended the gun to be carried with the hammer down--the thumb-safety was added at the military's request.

As for proper shooting grip, trigger-hand thumb resting on top of the safety definitely is not it. That thumb goes under the safety during firing, so the gun is firmly held between the index-finger and thumb.

Not trying to be argumentative this is just off the top of my memory. The article talked about it being dropped and striking the hammer. Every instructor I've seen and been taught by teach thumb over the hammer for 1911's due to risk of your thumb coming up and putting the safety on under recoil. This is a departure from the normal pistol grip taught for the reason you mentioned.

 

[Jory]

Picked up the Rock Island Armory 1911 today for $450

Took it to the range on my lunch break and popped off 50 rounds. Was disappointed by the groupings I got (everything on paper at 25 yards, but only 6/8 hit the silhouette), but that may have been because I'd skipped breakfast to buy the gun and then lunch to go shoot it.

Disassembly and reassembly was a bitch, and the parkerized finish is already showing signs of wear after 50 rounds and a good scrubbing with a bronze brush. I'm buying a nylon brush next time I take it shooting to extend the life of the finish, when I start to see steel, I'll have to take it to an armorer to get it refinished.

Be careful--I assumed all 1911s operated the same way as mine does but after some reading my gun may work the way it does because it is a series 80. It seems that the firing pin lock in the series 80 may be the reason my gun's trigger locks up in "1/4-c0ck".

I tried this, and the trigger is definitely locked at 1/4 ****. However, you don't need to partially de**** it to get to 1/4 ****ed. The hammer automatically locks 1/4 of the way back.

Of course, you will need to partially de**** it to get there with a round chambered, but why risk an accidental discharge? Just keep it hammer back with the safety on. The slide safety doesn't engage until the weapon if fully ****ed.

 

[crowded]

Be careful--I assumed all 1911s operated the same way as mine does but after some reading my gun may work the way it does because it is a series 80. It seems that the firing pin lock in the series 80 may be the reason my gun's trigger locks up in "1/4-c0ck".

Alright. I'll check it out and report back.

Picked up the Rock Island Armory 1911 today for $450

Took it to the range on my lunch break and popped off 50 rounds. Was disappointed by the groupings I got (everything on paper at 25 yards, but only 6/8 hit the silhouette), but that may have been because I'd skipped breakfast to buy the gun and then lunch to go shoot it.

Disassembly and reassembly was a bitch, and the parkerized finish is already showing signs of wear after 50 rounds and a good scrubbing with a bronze brush. I'm buying a nylon brush next time I take it shooting to extend the life of the finish, when I start to see steel, I'll have to take it to an armorer to get it refinished.

Isn't $450 pretty low for a 1911?

I tried this, and the trigger is definitely locked at 1/4 ****. However, you don't need to partially de**** it to get to 1/4 ****ed. The hammer automatically locks 1/4 of the way back.

Of course, you will need to partially de**** it to get there with a round chambered, but why risk an accidental discharge? Just keep it hammer back with the safety on. The slide safety doesn't engage until the weapon if fully ****ed.

lol. There's just way too many options.

 

[Jory]

Isn't $450 pretty low for a 1911?

$450 is about rock-bottom for a 1911.

I hadn't even been looking until I saw this one, but afterwards I went around and held a few other cheap 1911s. Citadel, Remington, Para, Llama, and a used Springfield. This one was the smoothest and the tightest feeling.

Problems I've read about it include the parkerized finish wearing off and the pistol rusting, and I've read on 1911 forums that the Kimber snobs claim that it is wildly inaccurate at 75 ft (well beyond pistol range anyway). I wouldn't call my 75 ft grouping "wildly" inaccurate, but I now know better than to try to shoot someone that far away with it.

 

[jericksen5]

$450 is about rock-bottom for a 1911.

I hadn't even been looking until I saw this one, but afterwards I went around and held a few other cheap 1911s. Citadel, Remington, Para, Llama, and a used Springfield. This one was the smoothest and the tightest feeling.

Problems I've read about it include the parkerized finish wearing off and the pistol rusting, and I've read on 1911 forums that the Kimber snobs claim that it is wildly inaccurate at 75 ft (well beyond pistol range anyway). I wouldn't call my 75 ft grouping "wildly" inaccurate, but I now know better than to try to shoot someone that far away with it.

Now for the REAL question. Is it as fun to shoot as the "standard" 1911s? Since I wouldnt be buying it as a primary defense pistol, thats all I really care about.

 

[Jory]

Now for the REAL question. Is it as fun to shoot as the "standard" 1911s? Since I wouldnt be buying it as a primary defense pistol, thats all I really care about.

I've never shot a nice 1911. Just this RIA and my dad's cheap Italian knock-off that jams every other round.

It was fun to shoot. It kicks hard and gives a nice boom. Plus it fed the cheapest 45 ammo I could find without a malfunction, but I only put 50 rounds through it.

The down side is I'm used to putting bullets where I want them, and this gun didn't do that so well.

 

[Gallachobar]

Not trying to be argumentative this is just off the top of my memory. The article talked about it being dropped and striking the hammer. Every instructor I've seen and been taught by teach thumb over the hammer for 1911's due to risk of your thumb coming up and putting the safety on under recoil. This is a departure from the normal pistol grip taught for the reason you mentioned.

Let me make sure I'm understanding you correctly, you're talking about placing the thumb on top of the thumb-safety while shooting, rather than just flagging it?

This strikes me as an invented problem. After firing, the thumb safety cannot be engaged until the hammer is fully c0cked and the slide returns to battery, so I just don't see how one could toggle the thumb safety on due to recoil, especially if the gun is cradled inbetween the thumb and index finger and gripped firmly. In fact it seems likely that in order for the thumb to move enough to engage the thumb safety during recoil the shooter's grip would probably have to be wrong.

Furthermore that grip seems like it would severely damage the control of the gun due to the asymmetric way that pressure would be applied.

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but that grip just seems obviously wrong to me--I've always belonged to the school of thought which holds that the only acceptable technique is a firm, symmetric and "neutral" grip, with the gun cradled in the notch of the hand as high up on the frame as possible.

 

[jericksen5]

I've never shot a nice 1911. Just this RIA and my days cheap Italian knock-off.

I was fun to shoot. It kicks hard and gives a nice boom. Plus it fed the cheapest 45 ammo I could find without a malfunction, but I only put 50 rounds through it.

Im definately not a 1911 expert, but Ive shot a few different 1911s, from a competition ready Colt to a cheap beater rental Magnum Research. The things that stick out to me as being "1911" traits are a super short and smooth trigger thats very easy to rapid fire, and a very soft "push like" recoil (not snappy) that make it very easy to get back on target for follow up shots. Is that how your RIA feels?

I remember the first time I ever went shooting, the first gun I shot I think was a Glock 17. I put about 50 rounds through it before I started to get anything that even resembled a group. I remember thinking "wow shooting is a lot harder than it is in the video games!". Then my friend handed me his Colt 1911, and ill admit, I was a little aprehensive, thinking it would kick like a horse and wasnt sure I was ready yet, being I was still having trouble with the 9mm. I put the first 5 rounds through in a tight group like a pro (or at least thats how I felt). I said to my friend "I can see why people still like these things!" The recoil was much more manageable, and just seemed much easier to shoot (not sure what I mean by that exactly, but it was). Everytime I have shot a 1911, I have the same experience. The only thing that has kept me from buying one is the price (gun and ammo).

 

[Gallachobar]

P
I tried this, and the trigger is definitely locked at 1/4 ****. However, you don't need to partially de**** it to get to 1/4 ****ed. The hammer automatically locks 1/4 of the way back.

Of course, you will need to partially de**** it to get there with a round chambered, but why risk an accidental discharge? Just keep it hammer back with the safety on. The slide safety doesn't engage until the weapon if fully ****ed.

Yeah you can get it into 1/4 c0ck without letting it down, but if you're engaging the hammer-safety you will have previously racked the slide regardless.

If done properly there is really a nil chance of accidental discharge. Once the hammer is allowed to move forward out of full c0ck and the trigger is released the hammer will not fall forward all the way. Browning put the hammer-safety in the gun to prevent the hammer from striking the firing pin in the case that the hammer was released and the trigger was not depressed throughout the action of the mechanism.

I like the gun in this condition because of its less-conspicuous appearance, the lack of protuding parts that are prone to snagging on clothing etc. and because I can fully c0ck the trigger in the initial stage of the draw, using only my dominant hand. I like condition one fine as well, but there's no law mandating it is the only condition in which a 1911 should ever be placed.

 

[Jory]

Im definately not a 1911 expert, but Ive shot a few different 1911s, from a competition ready Colt to a cheap beater rental Magnum Research. The things that stick out to me as being "1911" traits are a super short and smooth trigger thats very easy to rapid fire, and a very soft "push like" recoil (not snappy) that make it very easy to get back on target for follow up shots. Is that how your RIA feels?

I remember the first time I ever went shooting, the first gun I shot I think was a Glock 17. I put about 50 rounds through it before I started to get anything that even resembled a group. I remember thinking "wow shooting is a lot harder than it is in the video games!". Then my friend handed me his Colt 1911, and ill admit, I was a little aprehensive, thinking it would kick like a horse and wasnt sure I was ready yet, being I was still having trouble with the 9mm. I put the first 5 rounds through in a tight group like a pro (or at least thats how I felt). I said to my friend "I can see why people still like these things!" The recoil was much more manageable, and just seemed much easier to shoot (not sure what I mean by that exactly, but it was). Everytime I have shot a 1911, I have the same experience. The only thing that has kept me from buying one is the price (gun and ammo).

I wouldn't call it a gentle push. The gun definitely kicks.

 

[jericksen5]

I wouldn't call it a gentle push. The gun definitely kicks.

If I used the word gentle, I was probably exaggerating. But in my experience, the recoil feels much less snappy than most modern poly pistols, and feels more like a lateral "push" than an up kick/snap.

 

[Gallachobar]

I've never shot a nice 1911. Just this RIA and my dad's cheap Italian knock-off that jams every other round.

It was fun to shoot. It kicks hard and gives a nice boom. Plus it fed the cheapest 45 ammo I could find without a malfunction, but I only put 50 rounds through it.

The down side is I'm used to putting bullets where I want them, and this gun didn't do that so well.

The cheaper 1911s can pretty easily be made into a fine pistol with the addition of a handful of aftermarket parts and by spending some quality one-on-one time with the pistol's guts taking care of details like deburring and dressing contact surfaces, polishing and buffing, fine-tuning some of the small parts etc. I've done this with a cheapo 1911 myself and can elaborate if you're interested.

BTW, while the park is still mostly on you can get a great finish by coating it as-is with GunKote or something similar, as park and ceramic coatings are synergistic.

 

[Jory]

If I used the word gentle, I was probably exaggerating. But in my experience, the recoil feels much less snappy than most modern poly pistols, and feels more like a lateral "push" than an up kick/snap.

The lateral push was much greater than the snap of my Sig. I can get the Sig back on target and shred the center of my targets with about 1 second between shots. I was taking 2-3 seconds between shots with the 45 and the spread was probably twice as wide (although I'm not excluding the possibility that I was just shaky from skipping a few meals).

I guess I really need to get back to the range this weekend...

 

[Jory]

The cheaper 1911s can pretty easily be made into a fine pistol with the addition of a handful of aftermarket parts and by spending some quality one-on-one time with the pistol's guts taking care of details like deburring and dressing contact surfaces, polishing and buffing, fine-tuning some of the small parts etc. I've done this with a cheapo 1911 myself and can elaborate if you're interested.

BTW, while the park is still mostly on you can get a great finish by coating it as-is with GunKote or something similar, as park and ceramic coatings are synergistic.

I don't mind making this a project pistol, but I don't want to screw around with do-it-yourself refinishing.

But maybe I'll put off getting an AR and take the 1911 to an armorer sooner rather than later.

 

[jericksen5]

I think I have the same Sig as you if I remember from previous posts, and definately found the recoil on all the 1911s I have shot to be more manageable. But again, I have never shot an RIA, and I am sure there is a fair amount of individual handling/habits coming into play.

 

[jericksen5]

I don't mind making this a project pistol, but I don't want to screw around with do-it-yourself refinishing.

But maybe I'll put off getting an AR and take the 1911 to an armorer sooner rather than later.

If I were you, Id get the AR. What with all the Mayan zombies coming back from Planet Nibiru in December, better to have some real firepower.

 

[Gallachobar]

I don't mind making this a project pistol, but I don't want to screw around with do-it-yourself refinishing.

But maybe I'll put off getting an AR and take the 1911 to an armorer sooner rather than later.

If you have or can obtain an airbrush it's pretty straightforward and easy (anything that comes out of a can is shit, airbrushing is the only way to go), the only prep you would need to do would be degreasing the surfaces thoroughly, you don't need to blast it or anything like that. When a gun is finished with ceramic coating professionally, it's parkerized/phosphated first because it takes the finish to a whole other level functionally and aesthetically.

It's understandable to want to have the most visible aspect of a gun handled professionally, but keep in mind the fact that you can get enough Gun-Kote to finish a 1911 for ~10 bucks, and getting a comparable finish applied professionally will cost over ten times that amount. I've done a good amount of this type of thing and can offer a couple of pointers WRT application for anyone who is interested.

 

[Jory]

If I were you, Id get the AR. What with all the Mayan zombies coming back from Planet Nibiru in December, better to have some real firepower.

The AR is a project for 2013. I wasn't even supposed to get a 45, but the sweet deal tempted me.


I think it may have been you that posted the 22 stinger ballistic test. Anything that creates a 2x7inch cavity in the brain for 12 cents is my go-to round for zombie apocalypse.

I actually ran a quick inventory, and I'm pretty sure I could hold my house against up to 250 walking dead if the situation came up (assuming slow/shambling headshot only zombies, not 28 days later rage "zombies").

Any more than that and I'm fucked though. Need to start stockpiling I guess...

 

[Jory]

Whoops, sorry. That was infinitywarrior.

Another Debate i don't really want to touch. IMO it is feasible to have a .22 for home defence if the proper ammunition is chosen. Something reliable and that will cause maximum damage but minimize risk for others. Here is a ballistic video for .22ammo i think would be an ideal choice. I also would recommend a tactical .22 pistol like the new Smith and Wesson M&P .22, same dimension as the rest of the family and can use attachements such as tac-light. I would say CCI Mini Mag, or my favorite the Stinger. Very reliable and packs a punch.