International Pope Francis has died BREAKING - New Pope Elected - American Cardinal Robert Prevost becomes Pope Leo the XIVth

I will add that plenty of people out there consider themselves Christians but don’t display any of the fruits of the spirit or live by basic Christian doctrine.

Anecdotally I have seen more lefties and liberals try to end war, pestilence, and famine then I have people on the right. You don’t have to believe in a God to find purpose in helping others. I’m not a theist but I find tremendous joy, satisfaction and purpose in my life by helping people. I think lots of folks who don’t believe in a God would echo that sentiment.

It ultimately comes down to individuals, what they have in their hearts and minds. Amongst the religious denoms and people who identify as Christians, I have generally found Catholics to be the most compassionate. It's literally in the fundamental teachings of the church that salvation is attained through both faith and good works. The latter is not part of any Protestant theology, although the mainlines are generally fine. The evangelical strain is something else, and many so-called followers of Christ within that sect are just downright cruel and hateful. It's really more of a political identity than anything else.
 
It ultimately comes down to individuals, what they have in their hearts and minds. Amongst the religious denoms and people who identify as Christians, I have generally found Catholics to be the most compassionate. It's literally in the fundamental teachings of the church that salvation is attained through both faith and good works. The latter is not part of any Protestant theology, although the mainlines are generally fine. The evangelical strain is something else, and many so-called followers of Christ within that sect are just downright cruel and hateful. It's really more of a political identity than anything else.
Agree.
 
Is the football rivalry a true rivalry in terms of wins and losses, or has one side historically dominated?

Celtic have a slight edge, since they won the European Cup back in '67. In terms of domestic titles, it's literally dead-even, with Celtic equalling Rangers' 55 titles this year. In recent years, Celtic have been dominant, winning all three major titles every year.

Rangers desperately need the takeover deal with the 49er's to go through, giving them access to a much bigger budget, and thus better players.
 
Are we getting close to approaching something of an objective consensus on a "Magnificent Seven" on this? The exact placements will perpetually be up for debate. In chronological timeline order:

* Alexander The Great
Love how twitter sometimes stumbles upon meaningful syntheses without being aware that it had.

Grf2jONWsAA2UaW
 
Are we in the midst of a Moslem takeover?



🧐

* 62% of U.S. adults describe themselves as Christians: 40% are Protestant, 19% are Catholic, and 3% are other Christians.

* 29% are religiously unaffiliated: 5% are atheist, 6% are agnostic, and 19% identify religiously as “nothing in particular.”

* 7% belong to religions other than Christianity: 2% are Jewish, and 1% each are Muslim, Buddhist, or Hindu (all figures are rounded).


checking-the-time-alonzo.gif




Are we getting close to approaching something of an objective consensus on a "Magnificent Seven" on this? The exact placements will perpetually be up for debate. In chronological timeline order:

* Alexander The Great
* Julius Caesar
* Augustus (Octavian)
* Jesus of Nazareth
* Paul the Apostle
* Prophet Muhammad
* Sir Isaac Newton

The only question is, where does this leave contributors to the arts? How can a composer, painter, sculptor, or writer compete with the likes of conquerers and rulers or scientists and religious founders where impact and influence on the course of civilization is concerned? They simply can't, but what they accomplished has priceless value. Do we carve out a handful of extraordinary exceptions for the likes of Michelangelo and Shakespeare? In the case of the former, we are talking about the most iconic painting(s) of all-time; the most famous sculpture(s) ever chiseled by man from a block of marble. A man who represented the pinnacle of the peak artistic movement in human history and was responsible for ushering in the one that followed it. He did crack the Top 50 on the Hart list.


But couldn't this difference be between the tangibles being easier to see? Take your first place choice: Alexander. We can point to the expansion of the Macedonian nation into an empire; the spread of greek ideals eastward; the destruction of the Persian empire; etc.

But we can't forget that Alexander was the guy who slept with a copy of the Illiad under his pillow. We saw him reference it and even play it out in several instances: Cheering Selucas for 1v1'ing some Persian rebel in Afghanistan; Alexander himself dragging the eunoch behind is chariot after the fall of Tyre, mimicking Achiles victory over Hector; Alexander and Hephaestion running round the "graves" of Achilles and Petroclus in front of the army; and to a lesser degree, the way in which he responded to Persian delegations and his general desire to conquer the known world in the first place?

Perhaps, with the artist, Homer, we end up instead with Alexander the Greatest Administrator, or Alexander the Herbalist?
 
Well, this is embarrassing...


I would take this with a grain of salt.

Similar accusations appeared in the press here in Peru in the final days of Francis’ life and the lead up to the Conclave regarding a case when he was bishop of Chiclayo, and they turned out to be bullshit.

In fact, the whole thing was a hit piece that everyone is pretty sure was cooked up by former members of the Sodalicio, an ultra conservative Catholic religious society because they hate Pope Leo’s guts, because they think he was one of the people instrumental in their final destruction, among other things, because their founder liked to molest kids.
 
I would take this with a grain of salt.

Similar accusations appeared in the press here in Peru in the final days of Francis’ life and the lead up to the Conclave regarding a case when he was bishop of Chiclayo, and they turned out to be bullshit.

In fact, the whole thing was a hit piece that everyone is pretty sure was cooked up by former members of the Sodalicio, an ultra conservative Catholic religious society because they hate Pope Leo’s guts, because they think he was one of the people instrumental in their final destruction, among other things, because their founder liked to molest kids.

Should be easy enough to disprove. If Pope Bob helped to cover it up, there would have been a paper trail. The Catholic Church is like any other large organisation: decisions are written down.

What's not in doubt is the scumbag did molest kids/young adults and was still allowed to be a priest, albeit on restricted duties, for quite some time.
 
Should be easy enough to disprove. If Pope Bob helped to cover it up, there would have been a paper trail. The Catholic Church is like any other large organisation: decisions are written down.

What's not in doubt is the scumbag did molest kids/young adults and was still allowed to be a priest, albeit on restricted duties, for quite some time.

No doubt.

I would just advise to never lose sight of the fact that the Catholic Church is also one of the world’s oldest and largest bureaucracies on Earth.

Parsing out where intentional malfeasance stops and bureaucratic inertia begins from the paper trail alone might be easier said than done.
 
Are we getting close to approaching something of an objective consensus on a "Magnificent Seven" on this? The exact placements will perpetually be up for debate. In chronological timeline order:

* Alexander The Great
* Julius Caesar
* Augustus (Octavian)
* Jesus of Nazareth
* Paul the Apostle
* Prophet Muhammad
* Sir Isaac Newton


This list is very much weighted toward western perspectives... unless it's just a list of greats from the western perspective then it's fine. But still omitting some extremely influential people like say Charlemagne for instance. Two Romans of the same period are definitely a bit redundant.

The Roman empire was basically the little league, or at least a minor league, compared to their contemporaries, and even their predecessors, in the east. The Parthian and Sassanian contemporaries were more than a match for the Romans for their entire history. That's not even getting into the scale of what the Chinese were doing at the time, which dwarfed everyone.

Even Alexander himself was in awe of the grandeur and opulence of the Persian kings, not just in Persis but all across their domain, and this was an empire in decline by the time he showed up.

A true magnificent seven of the world would have to at least include a Chinese figure like Liu Bang, founder of the Han dynasty the first truly imperial and lasting dynasty, if not Qin Shi Huang the original founder of China, and a Persian king like Cyrus. Mithridates II of Parthia, Ardashir I and Shapur I of the Sassanids would have to be solid candidates as well for any list you would consider Augustus or Caesar for.

I'm sure there is a Pope somewhere between Paul and Isaac Newton that would be more fitting too, perhaps one of the crusader Popes. Paul and Jesus don't need to take up two slots.
 
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I would take this with a grain of salt.

Similar accusations appeared in the press here in Peru in the final days of Francis’ life and the lead up to the Conclave regarding a case when he was bishop of Chiclayo, and they turned out to be bullshit.

In fact, the whole thing was a hit piece that everyone is pretty sure was cooked up by former members of the Sodalicio, an ultra conservative Catholic religious society because they hate Pope Leo’s guts, because they think he was one of the people instrumental in their final destruction, among other things, because their founder liked to molest kids.

Yeah, I don't buy it.

Love it how there's already chad Pope Leo memes

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America has the largest self-identified Christian population of any country in the world, but there are roughly twice as many Protestants as Catholics here. It will be interesting to see what sort of effect (if any) Leo can have on those dynamics. The amount of attention and eyes on what he's doing is substantially above the norm.

This list is very much weighted toward western perspectives... unless it's just a list of greats from the western perspective then it's fine. But still omitting some extremely influential people like say Charlemagne for instance. Two Romans of the same period are definitely a bit redundant.

The Roman empire was basically the little league, or at least a minor league, compared to their contemporaries, and even their predecessors, in the east. The Parthian and Sassanian contemporaries were more than a match for the Romans for their entire history. That's not even getting into the scale of what the Chinese were doing at the time, which dwarfed everyone.

Even Alexander himself was in awe of the grandeur and opulence of the Persian kings, not just in Persis but all across their domain, and this was an empire in decline by the time he showed up.

A true magnificent seven of the world would have to at least include a Chinese figure like Liu Bang, founder of the Han dynasty the first truly imperial and lasting dynasty, if not Qin Shi Huang the original founder of China, and a Persian king like Cyrus. Mithridates II of Parthia, Ardashir I and Shapur I of the Sassanids would have to be solid candidates as well for any list you would consider Augustus or Caesar for.

I think so, for the most part. It is certainly at the center of my interests and passions, so there's undoubtedly heavy-handed bias. I'd be inclined to remove Caesar before Augustus for reasons cited earlier.

I'm sure there is a Pope somewhere between Paul and Isaac Newton that would be more fitting too, perhaps one of the crusader Popes. Paul and Jesus don't need to take up two slots.

He wasn't a Crusader Pope, but I'm often in awe of Julius II (the "warrior pope") and the patronage legacy of his papacy from 1503-1513. In a mere decade, he was responsible for organizing the Swiss Guard, laid the first stone of the modern Saint Peter's Basilica, established the Vatican Museums, commissioned both Michelangelo to paint the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel and Raphael to adorn the rooms that now bear his name with timeless frescoes, donated the Apollo Belvedere and acquired Laocoon and His Sons, which is IMO the greatest marble sculpture in existence next to David and Pieta (which also sits inside St. Peter's). It's just fucking magnificent.



The statue of Laocoön and His Sons, also called the Laocoön Group (Gruppo del Laocoonte), has been one of the most famous ancient sculptures since it was excavated in Rome in 1506 and put on public display in the Vatican Museums, where it remains today. The statue is very likely the same one that was praised in the highest terms by Pliny the Elder, the main Roman writer on art who attributed the work, then in the palace of Emperor Titus, to three Greek sculptors from the island of Rhodes: Agesander, Athenodoros, and Polydorus. The figures in the statue are nearly life-sized, with the entire group measuring just over 2 meters (6 ft 7 in) in height. The sculpture depicts the Trojan priest Laocoön and his sons Antiphantes and Thymbraeus being attacked by sea serpents.

The discovery of the Laocoön made a great impression on Italian artists and continued to influence Western art into the Baroque period. Michelangelo is known to have been particularly impressed by the massive scale of the work and its sensuous Hellenistic aesthetic, particularly its depiction of the male figures. The influence of the Laocoön, as well as the Belvedere Torso, is evidenced in many of Michelangelo's later sculptures, and several of the ignudi in the Sistine Chapel Ceiling draw on the figures. Raphael used the face of Laocoön for Homer in his Parnassus fresco in the Raphael Rooms of the Vatican, expressing blindness rather than pain.

Pliny's description of Laocoön as "a work to be preferred to all that the arts of painting and sculpture have produced" has led to a tradition which debates this claim that the sculpture is the greatest of all artworks. Johann Joachim Winckelmann wrote about the paradox of admiring beauty while seeing a scene of death and failure. Johann Goethe said the following in his essay, Upon the Laocoon "A true work of art, like a work of nature, never ceases to open boundlessly before the mind. We examine – we are impressed with it – it produces its effect; but it can never be all comprehended, still less can its essence, its value, be expressed in words."
 
Yeah, I don't buy it.



America has the largest self-identified Christian population of any country in the world, but there are roughly twice as many Protestants as Catholics here. It will be interesting to see what sort of effect (if any) Leo can have on those dynamics. The amount of attention and eyes on what he's doing is substantially above the norm.



I think so, for the most part. It is certainly at the center of my interests and passions, so there's undoubtedly heavy-handed bias. I'd be inclined to remove Caesar before Augustus for reasons cited earlier.



He wasn't a Crusader Pope, but I'm often in awe of Julius II (the "warrior pope") and the patronage legacy of his papacy from 1503-1513. In a mere decade, he was responsible for organizing the Swiss Guard, laid the first stone of the modern Saint Peter's Basilica, established the Vatican Museums, commissioned both Michelangelo to paint the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel and Raphael to adorn the rooms that now bear his name with timeless frescoes, donated the Apollo Belvedere and acquired Laocoon and His Sons, which is IMO the greatest marble sculpture in existence next to David and Pieta (which also sits inside St. Peter's). It's just fucking magnificent.



The statue of Laocoön and His Sons, also called the Laocoön Group (Gruppo del Laocoonte), has been one of the most famous ancient sculptures since it was excavated in Rome in 1506 and put on public display in the Vatican Museums, where it remains today. The statue is very likely the same one that was praised in the highest terms by Pliny the Elder, the main Roman writer on art who attributed the work, then in the palace of Emperor Titus, to three Greek sculptors from the island of Rhodes: Agesander, Athenodoros, and Polydorus. The figures in the statue are nearly life-sized, with the entire group measuring just over 2 meters (6 ft 7 in) in height. The sculpture depicts the Trojan priest Laocoön and his sons Antiphantes and Thymbraeus being attacked by sea serpents.

The discovery of the Laocoön made a great impression on Italian artists and continued to influence Western art into the Baroque period. Michelangelo is known to have been particularly impressed by the massive scale of the work and its sensuous Hellenistic aesthetic, particularly its depiction of the male figures. The influence of the Laocoön, as well as the Belvedere Torso, is evidenced in many of Michelangelo's later sculptures, and several of the ignudi in the Sistine Chapel Ceiling draw on the figures. Raphael used the face of Laocoön for Homer in his Parnassus fresco in the Raphael Rooms of the Vatican, expressing blindness rather than pain.

Pliny's description of Laocoön as "a work to be preferred to all that the arts of painting and sculpture have produced" has led to a tradition which debates this claim that the sculpture is the greatest of all artworks. Johann Joachim Winckelmann wrote about the paradox of admiring beauty while seeing a scene of death and failure. Johann Goethe said the following in his essay, Upon the Laocoon "A true work of art, like a work of nature, never ceases to open boundlessly before the mind. We examine – we are impressed with it – it produces its effect; but it can never be all comprehended, still less can its essence, its value, be expressed in words."
Good, but not as good as “man fighting babies”
oslo-norway-august-2-2015-vigeland-installation-in-frogner-park-oslo-212-sculptures-around-the-park-were-all-designed-by-artist-gustav-vigeland-RG8W4F.jpg
 
No no I don’t think that. I was just commenting that Alexander’s legacy is more prevalent than Ghengis and not entirely limited to that of an ancient conqueror.

Alex -> Rome -> America
How exactly did you make that connection? Seems quite a stretch to say that.

I mean, I found this:


"Many modern societies have borrowed some aspect of ancient Roman thought, but its shaping influence on the United States has been especially profound. The framers of the U.S. Constitution incorporated Roman ideas about the separation of powers and the need for a senate. The fluted white columns decorating the neoclassical facades of many antebellum American plantation mansions mimic those on Roman temples.

The class also focused on slavery, another similarity between ancient Rome and America. Both were slave societies, holding a significant proportion of their populations in legal bondage. “For most of human history, slavery was not seen as morally problematic,” Winterer said during the lecture on the rise of anti-slavery ideas in the United States before the Civil War. “That shift in human consciousness and understanding was so great that it’s difficult for us to put ourselves in a moment before that time.”


So definitely some influence on the constitution and founding ideology, but surely US is far more shaped by Northern and Western Europe traditions.

Dont forget also the history of the US:


"John Fiske, traveling in Italy, printed his observations that “The lowest Irish are far above the level of these creatures (Italians)” while the great Emerson rejoiced that the early immigrants brought “the light complexion, the blue eyes of Europe” rather than “the black eyes, the black drop” of southern Europe. Before a congressional committee investigating Chinese Immigration in 1891 a west coast construction boss commented that “You don’t call . . . an Italian a white man . . . an Italian is a Dago.”

What prompted this attitude toward Italians as swarthy, lawless, poverty ridden drones upon the American culture and society? What caused the environment in which a poor immigrant becomes a “dago” or “wop” while a wealthy one is immediately associated with the Mafia, and where the stereotyped organ grinder, anarchist, and mafioso become synonomous with the Italian?...


 
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Leo's Army.

The Pontifical Swiss Guard, also known as the Papal Swiss Guard, is a guard of honor, armed forces and protective security unit maintained by the Holy See to protect the Pope and the Apostolic Palace within the Vatican City State. Established in 1506 under Pope Julius II, it is among the oldest military units in continuous operation and is sometimes called "the world's smallest army".

The Swiss Guard is recognized by its Renaissance-era dress uniform and traditional weapons such as the halberd. Guardsmen perform their protective duties in functional attire and with modern firearms. Since the assassination attempt on Pope John Paul II in 1981, the Guard has placed greater emphasis on its nonceremonial roles and has sought more training in anti-irregular military close-quarters battle, counterintelligence, counterterrorism, defusing and disposal of bombs, medical evacuation, reconnaissance, and tactical fast shooting by small arms.


Their arsenal of weapons is actually pretty light, @Cole train. They will get the job done, though. I love my G26 (it's a subcompact and I have little hands, lol).


In 2022, the Swiss Guard published a 16-page brochure (see PDF) on its official website, revealing their weaponry: "The literal weapon of each guard up to the rank of sergeant is a short sword with an S-shaped crosshead or a so-called rapier sword with decorated basket hand protection for officers, chaplain not included.There is also the famous halberd and two spears (partesana) with different endings for the ends and vice-ends".

The document then cites the firearms: "For their protection and guard functions, the guards are equipped with Glock 19 and 26 automatic pistols, SIG 550 assault rifle (Stgw 90) and SIG 552 assault rifle (Commando), both in 5.56 mm x 45 caliber, OC-Spray and destabilizing devices (Taser X2). Modernization of the already aging Stgw 90 (which was donated by the Swiss Army at the time), currently B&T APC 556 assault rifles and B&T APC 9 submachine guns are used."

In addition to the aforementioned equipment, each Swiss Guard has an NBC protection mask, WILEY X Rogue 2852 protective glasses, and Kinetixx X-Mamba gloves. The Swiss Guard also has bulletproof vests, both inside and outside. For communications, they use DP 3441 and 3661 radios.
 


Leo's Army.

The Pontifical Swiss Guard, also known as the Papal Swiss Guard, is a guard of honor, armed forces and protective security unit maintained by the Holy See to protect the Pope and the Apostolic Palace within the Vatican City State. Established in 1506 under Pope Julius II, it is among the oldest military units in continuous operation and is sometimes called "the world's smallest army".

The Swiss Guard is recognized by its Renaissance-era dress uniform and traditional weapons such as the halberd. Guardsmen perform their protective duties in functional attire and with modern firearms. Since the assassination attempt on Pope John Paul II in 1981, the Guard has placed greater emphasis on its nonceremonial roles and has sought more training in anti-irregular military close-quarters battle, counterintelligence, counterterrorism, defusing and disposal of bombs, medical evacuation, reconnaissance, and tactical fast shooting by small arms.


Their arsenal of weapons is actually pretty light, @Cole train. They will get the job done, though. I love my G26 (it's a subcompact and I have little hands, lol).


In 2022, the Swiss Guard published a 16-page brochure (see PDF) on its official website, revealing their weaponry: "The literal weapon of each guard up to the rank of sergeant is a short sword with an S-shaped crosshead or a so-called rapier sword with decorated basket hand protection for officers, chaplain not included.There is also the famous halberd and two spears (partesana) with different endings for the ends and vice-ends".

The document then cites the firearms: "For their protection and guard functions, the guards are equipped with Glock 19 and 26 automatic pistols, SIG 550 assault rifle (Stgw 90) and SIG 552 assault rifle (Commando), both in 5.56 mm x 45 caliber, OC-Spray and destabilizing devices (Taser X2). Modernization of the already aging Stgw 90 (which was donated by the Swiss Army at the time), currently B&T APC 556 assault rifles and B&T APC 9 submachine guns are used."

In addition to the aforementioned equipment, each Swiss Guard has an NBC protection mask, WILEY X Rogue 2852 protective glasses, and Kinetixx X-Mamba gloves. The Swiss Guard also has bulletproof vests, both inside and outside. For communications, they use DP 3441 and 3661 radios.


Should arm them with some christian brass knuckles like in constantine

 
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