Plyo's, sprints, ballistic's for size?

[nudge119]

If your really considering going the prohormone route you should just get some good ole test, instead of messing around with stuff that will only give you marginal results compared to "real" stuff. Especially since there is no longer any legal difference between the two.

Also, I really don't understand juicing for any other reason except bulking, unless you have a bodybuilding contest coming up or are trying to maintain muscle while you drop weight to make a certain weight class.

So get some real shit and eat some real food and lift some real weight!!!

 

[Rjkd12]

Plyos and ballistics are training methods used primarily to develop neuromuscular coordination, not hypertrophy, so alone, they will not be an ideal methods for increasing size. What the development of neuromuscular coordination can do, among other things, is teach your body to recruit more muscle fibers for any given activity. The level of muscular coordination can play a large role in the rate of success of a hypertrophy program, however, such methods are generally only recommended for athletes with at least a few consistent years of experience with basic weight training under their belts.

This is a great post.

One thing to remember is that everything is on a continuum. Low reps do not only give you strenth, while medium is only size and high only endurance. Low gives you the BEST for strength, high is BEST for endurance etc... So, while plyometrics may not be the BEST thing, they are definitly going to help and worse case scenario they will make sure to limit what he looses. Being a fighter I think they would be a nice switch for a bit.

Also, the question isn't "Will they be a superior method" it is "will they help" and if you do not have many choices I totally think you should try them. Let us know.

Now, I have a whole grocery sack full of banned prohormones. You name it, I probably have it.
Oxavar
Mad 250
On Cycle (original)
Methyl D
M-One-t by gaspari
M-1-t by VPX
Methyl-x by IDS
1-test by vpx
1-test cypionate by vpx
I have 2 or more of everything...no shit. (I ran a supplement store.)
So what do you guys recommend stacking while concentrating on the type of training I've mentioned.

You might as well juice. Juicing is heathier, more researched, and gets the job done.
If you are going to fuck with your hormone levels, might as well do it right than mess up and be retarded for life. If its a moral thing I doubt that all these substances are legal in your organization, and therefore if you are going to break the rules, might as well do it right (I am not commenting on morals, just stating that it shouldn't be a factor here).

There aren't a lot of studies done on these substances and therefore they are not all completely understood. Many of the original ones raised estrogen plenty and did little to testosterone. Granted these are probably better, they still inevitably have problems.

At the end of the day you are still altering your normal hormone levels by taking something, so I'd rather do it right and safer. Don't cut corners, man up and do it right or don't do it at all.

What is important is that type IIA (the type utilized by higher rep training) have more potential for growth than IIB. So, if the goal is size, why not train for size (IIA). If the goal is strength, train for strength (IIB). You wouldn't do medium to long distance running if an increase in size were your goal (even though some leg development is possible) so why do explosive strength work for it?

This isn't as pertaining to the question, but I find interesting.

The latest research I have read shows that IIX (previously known as IIB, which is found in rat) are more dormant fibers and do not contribute much. The research behind it is even high rep work still converts IIX fibers to IIA. Nobody is sure but they think that is the case because IIX, while work, only work at EXTREMELY high intensities and therefore arer mosty dormant. The fibers convert more to IIA so they can be used more and be more efficient. Hence, strength/power work does not increase the number or size of IIX fibers, they actuall increase the number of IIA.

Even though you point is totally valid. I am just discussing semantics.

If you have literature stating different things, please let me know, I would like to be more up to date. If not to hijack the thread, PM me if you want.

 

[Chad Hamilton]

The reason I don't get the "real" is because I have a grocery bag full of pro's.

I don't see buying real when I have the pro's at my disposal.

 

[nudge119]

That's no excuse - you shouldn't eat candy bars instead of a chicken breast just you because you have a grocery bag full of them.

It's your endorcine system, so it's your choice, but like rjkd12 and I have told you, prohormones do not compare to actual anabolic steroids.

If you absoluetly don't have any access to the real stuff and your still commited to taking something, stay away from the methylated stuff and maybe run the 1-test stuff for twelve weeks at a pretty high dosage, other wise your wasting your time. Do you have anything for post cycle therapy? What exactly are your goals again?

 

[Chad Hamilton]

have plenty of post cycle.

I see your point but I have a budget.


Weight gain thru plyo and such, thats the goal.

 

[nudge119]

Why "thru plyo and such" - why not just weight gain. Eat a lot of clean food (not too many bad fats and simple carbs) and lift heavy weights.

Reading your earlier post you say you don't have access to a gym and therefore weights.
I would never ever recommend prohormones or anabolic steroids to someone who is not going to be able to lift weights. Save the stuff until you have enough money to join a gym or buy yourself a few hundred pounds of weights.

 

[wasptrash]

The latest research I have read shows that IIX (previously known as IIB, which is found in rat) are more dormant fibers and do not contribute much. The research behind it is even high rep work still converts IIX fibers to IIA. Nobody is sure but they think that is the case because IIX, while work, only work at EXTREMELY high intensities and therefore arer mosty dormant. The fibers convert more to IIA so they can be used more and be more efficient. Hence, strength/power work does not increase the number or size of IIX fibers, they actuall increase the number of IIA.

Even though you point is totally valid. I am just discussing semantics.

If you have literature stating different things, please let me know, I would like to be more up to date. If not to hijack the thread, PM me if you want.

I used the term strength training in a very general and somewhat inappropriate manner for the sake of simplicity. I was making reference to the aforementioned plyometrics and ballistics training's inability to elicit much increase in size.
You are correct. The type IIX (B) only work at extremely high intensities (not to be confused with volume) such as that from explosive activities like the Olympic lifts, plyometrics, ballistics, etc... These types of activities, as with most activities, will utilize all fiber types to some extent but the IIB would primarily benefit. Some involvement from types IIA and type I will of course occur, but I'd guess not in a manner which would elicit much protein supercompensation, therefore little hypertrophy would occur in those fibers and as mentioned before, hypertrophy of IIB doesn't occur to a great extent.

 

[wenispinkle]

plyos dont effectively cause hypertrophy, because there is no eccentric portion of the movement

 

[wasptrash]

Actually, plyometrics are totally dependent upon an eccentric portion.

 

[cockysprinter]

plyos dont effectively cause hypertrophy, because there is no eccentric portion of the movement

not true.

if youre looking for size without weights, you should look into more difficult bodyweight exercises. handstand pushups, one handed pushups, planche variations, pistols, etc. look up gymnastics in particular, you must be incredible strong to pull off some maneauvers. if you can get a bar to do pullups (find a local playground if you have to) it greatly increses the amount of exercises you can do.

 

[wasptrash]

if youre looking for size without weights, you should look into more difficult bodyweight exercises. handstand pushups, one handed pushups, planche variations, pistols, etc. look up gymnastics in particular, you must be incredible strong to pull off some maneauvers. if you can get a bar to do pullups (find a local playground if you have to) it greatly increses the amount of exercises you can do.

Absolutely. If size without weights are the goal, this and maybe some odd heavy objects lifting would be the way to go

 

[wenispinkle]

not true.

if youre looking for size without weights, you should look into more difficult bodyweight exercises. handstand pushups, one handed pushups, planche variations, pistols, etc. look up gymnastics in particular, you must be incredible strong to pull off some maneauvers. if you can get a bar to do pullups (find a local playground if you have to) it greatly increses the amount of exercises you can do.

those arent plyometrics

 

[Ted-P]

those arent plyometrics

snap.

 

[Madmick]

those arent plyometrics

True, but there is an eccentric phase in plyometrics (the stretch reflex is essential to developing explosiveness), it's just minimized as greatly as possible.

 

[Urban]

no, a plyometric movement is defined as a movement without an eccentric phase. that is at least PART of the defnition.

 

[Madmick]

no, a plyometric movement is defined as a movement without an eccentric phase. that is at least PART of the defnition.

By whom? That's ridiculous.

Your quadricep lengthens during a rim jump (for example). It doesn't matter how quickly you do it. Your muscle lengthens.

 

[cockysprinter]

no, a plyometric movement is defined as a movement without an eccentric phase. that is at least PART of the defnition.

youre on crack. plyometrics depends on a stretching of the muscle. by true definition plyometrics can mean virtually any exercise. its western connotation is usually associated with explosive movements.

 

[yomon]

Sorry i missed this, been going through some intense training at my new job.

All right here gose with about all i know to date.

To simply answer the question, yes it is possible. Is it more effective then weights? depends on how you look at it.

One advantage over wieghts is that you can build a much more "natural" looking body then with common wieghted moves. I have notice my tri's, delts and traps develop much larger then they ever did when i was lifting for big three. Also my legs are larger then they ever have been.

Another advantage is that you build "wierd" strength. Gymnast style if you know what i mean.

A disadvantage would be that your not going to be able to bench 600lb or squat a house, but if your considering bodywieght training i'm guessing your not to interested in that anyways.

To gain size with bodyweight exercisses you need to be able to controll 4 variable to a tee.

food intake

variety

frequency

intensity

For food i have found mixed results personally. I have found the best results come from when i eat on a binge\starvation cycle. I usualy eat one day with a large breakfast and large dinner both consisting of protien and carbs in near equal ammounts, by all means this can be anything on this day even fast food, the idea is to make yourself anabolic this day. then the next day i will have 1 meal before bed consisting of only carbs and vegtables, the day after that i have 1 meal before bed consisting of only protien and vegtables (red meat preferable). Sugars are a Big Bad that you must avoid large consentrations of. Also anything unatural like caffein and whut ever else you may wana cut.

As for the workouts themselves i have found that any kind of structure at all can get in the way of progress. So what you must get good at is listening to your body, if your sore all over and working out your not going to make good gains if you do this all the time. Same with only working out once in a while and never reaching total body soreness, this will also render gains hard to impossible. So you can see that any set plan like 2 days on 1 day rest cycle would be usless here.

And that brings me to frequency. What you must do here is workout as much as possible without violating the rule of the above paragraph(workingout while sore all over consistantly). i have found that my best gains in size have come from when i workout frequently enough to make myself almost feel overtrained and then back off for a few days to a week. you obviously don't want to do this all the time but i have found that throwing in a cycle like this about once a month provides good gains. As for strength, i have found i get strongest when i closly monitor my bodies fatiuge and only workout within a cirtian level of pain never quite reaching that feeling of total body aching. have fun and switch it up when ever your bored. you won't be disapointed with the results.

As for intensity you want to keep it as high as possible without sacraficing too much time under tention. I found the best way to keep the intensity extreamly high while still giving yourself a good workout is to do low reps high sets. I don't mean 2 or 3 reps low but anything 15 to a min of 5 is good for size and strength building. and sets i like to keep to a min of 6 and a max of 10. just balance your reps/sets so that they fall within these values without reaching total failure in your sets.

now for the workouts i'l give you a quick list of what i'm currently focusing on.

situps - I'm actualy starting to use a small wieght here because it is just getting too simple. but you must hold it behing your neck.

Pushups - Quick up controlled down, currently doing them with my feet slightly elevated to target upper chest more

Pistols/one leg squats - Still use a counter wieght of 5 lb to keep reps higher

handstand pushups - these are the staple of my programe. Uber Awsome back development and lateral delts

One hand pushups - quite possibly the best tricep builder i have ever come across. Also hits lower back quite well if you put your feet together

yes i'm doing no Plyo's at the moment, but just because of noise complaints (apartment) May start going to the goodlife near my work place just so i can do some.

hope i explained well and inspired.

 

[yomon]

oh yeah, science sucks. use science as a general guide to what is likely. Never rule anything out. Live by the truths you find out from your own experience.

 

[Cmart]

plyos dont effectively cause hypertrophy, because there is no eccentric portion of the movement

I'm sorry but this is wrong. First off, with several plyo's you're actually emphasizing the eccentric portion - like box jumps - which do you think is more impactful, jumping on or off a 24" box? And the other half is that hypertrophy can occur without eccentric movements at all. Do bench press, for example, fo a month and have spotters lower the bar for you every single rep. Your effort pushing it will still result in hypertrophy, all other things being equal.

Are plyo's the best thing for hypertrophy? IMHO, no. They're great for explosive strength, and we know that explosive strength and muscle size aren't one-for-one. (You don't necessarily get stronger equally by getting big, or vice-versa). But sprinting always made my legs muscular size increase. Especially sprinting hills or stairs. I would suggest a budget sprint workout include some major stairs - they make results.