Rumored Pereira vs Chimaev

[13Seconds]

Na just joking

Ok just making sure.

Im pretty much a Chimaev hater tho

 

[Iroh]

Likewise, Khamzat has never faced a competent knockout artist to test his chin. Poatan is the definition of a lethal striker in the sport of MMA. The hardest hitter Khamzat's faced was...Bobby Knuckles, known exactly for fighting from the outside and winning by points.

"Oh people make such a big deal about Gilbert dropping Khamzat flat on his face."

Yes, they will when you say he's going to walk up and dominate the greatest striker in the sport at a weight class he's never fought at.

I repeat, he has never fought at 205, yet is going to move up and dog walk the #1 205er on the planet. Sure, thing friend.

The fact you think he'd win even faster than he did against whittaker proves exactly how infantile your knowledge of the sport is.

The fact you mongos need "Weightclasses exist for a reason" explained to you in 2024 is an even sadder fact.

Poatan dogwalks Chimaev. He offered Chimaev a fight at 205 when Chimaev was talking shit in January of 2023, which Khamzat quickly and quietly ignored.


Like who, exactly? Be specific.
Marvin Vettori?

Yes, Vettori, Brunson, Hermansson, Costa, Bobby Knuckles, all pose more of a grappling threat than what he had to face to get a TS at MW. And obviously Ank at LHW.

B-b-but they don't all have a grappling base/they aren't real wrestlers/grapplers! That's the usual retort. You can't speak colloquially or people will nitpick the fuck out of it and become pretty autistic and take everything hyper literally. It's obvious that the protection is against the threats a fighter can pose, not protection from their credentials.

If that's not you then good, but that's what I always encounter with this subject. A lot of people want to play a petty semantics game.

Another one I always encounter is the strawman of saying that Ank isn't a great wrestler. Never said he is, nor do I think he he has to be a great wrestler.

Also, I didn't get a notification from you quoting me. Not saying this is the case with you, but just in case, if you mess up the quotation brackets and have to edit it to get the quote right, the person you quoted won't get a notification. Better to just copy the post and post it again and the delete the original one, or at least that's what I always do.

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

Yes, Vettori, Brunson, Hermansson, Costa, Bobby Knuckles, all pose more of a grappling threat than what he had to face to get a TS at MW. And obviously Ank at LHW.

B-b-but they don't all have a grappling base/they aren't real wrestlers/grapplers! That's the usual retort. You can't speak colloquially or people will nitpick the fuck out of it and become pretty autistic and take everything hyper literally. It's obvious that the protection is against the threats a fighter can pose, not protection from their credentials.

If that's not you, then good, but that's what I always encounter with this subjeect. A lot of people want to play a petty semantics game.

Another one I always encounter is the strawman of saying that Ank isn't a great wrestler. Never said he is, nor do I think he he has to be a great wrestler.

Also, I didn't get a notification from you quoting me. Not saying this is the case with you, but just in case, if you mess up the quotation brackets and have to edit it to get the quote right, the person you quoted won't get a notification.

At MW, they pushed the Izzy fight since it would sell. I would have been fine seeing Poatan blast Vettori or Costa (not Brunson, hes taken enough damage) while they try to wall and stall (since we know they arent really finishing threats), but it is what it is.

They had a double champ kickboxer who had history with their current champion. A guy like Jack Hermansson doesnt fit in there. I guess he could have taken Bruno Silvas place and gotten blasted, but he had just lost lost a fight against strickland going 1-2 in his last 3, it just didnt make sense to feed him to Alex, but I suppose thats subjective. Brunson was already on a streak and fighting up the rankings, getting KO'd by Cannonier around the same time Poatan fought Strickland.

Costa and Bobby were both inactive as fuck during Poatans entire MW run, i think he had as many fight as they did combined during the same time.

At LHW, his first fight in the division was its actual best grappler, Jan.

You're right, Ank isn't a wrestler and I look forward to him getting chin checked to shut up neckbeards, but again, it isn't Poatan's fault that Ankalaev wins his fight against Walker (lol), then goes to the post fight presser and literally says the sentence "I will be ready to fight Alex Periera for the belt at UFC 300."

What happened? He was offered the fight and ducked it with the magical Ramadan excuse even though Ankalaev himself said he would be ready for 300 knowing the date.

I think the "protected" theory gets tossed around a lot when the reality is two things:

1. Timing of matchmaking

2. Heavier weights having shittier grapplers this generation

And

3. Ankalaev being a one time confirmed, multiple times possible (303, 307) duck

 

[Dionysian]

Khamzat by glorious sub round 1.

 

[Iroh]

At MW, they pushed the Izzy fight since it would sell. I would have been fine seeing Poatan blast Vettori or Costa (not Brunson, hes taken enough damage) while they try to wall and stall (since we know they arent really finishing threats), but it is what it is.

And what it is is protection.

They had a double champ kickboxer who had history with their current champion.

Yes, that's why he got fast tracked. Funny how people can all agree with that, but fast tracking is just protecting a fighter from the longer process that others have to go through to prove they are worthy, and protecting them from a large part of the rankings they get to skip through.

A guy like Jack Hermansson doesnt fit in there. I guess he could have taken Bruno Silvas place and gotten blasted, but he had just lost lost a fight against strickland going 1-2 in his last 3, it just didnt make sense to feed him to Alex, but I suppose thats subjective.

Indeed, the Bruno fight was a good point in Alex' career where it would have made sense. Or as his first fight in the UFC.

Brunson was already on a streak and fighting up the rankings, getting KO'd by Cannonier around the same time Poatan fought Strickland.

Again a candidate for early on in his UFC career. It would also have been fitting for the whole chasing Izzy narrative, because he was also a test for Izzy. It would just have helped build the storyline.

Costa and Bobby were both inactive as fuck during Poatans entire MW run, i think he had as many fight as they did combined during the same time.

They only have to fight him once. It doesn't take much activity to fight a guy once. Also, I'm sure they would have liked that fight, especially Costa. Guy with a lot of eyes on him with a supposed clear weakness to exploit.

At LHW, his first fight in the division was its actual best grappler, Jan.

Yeah, but Jan is more a ground/BJJ fighter than a take down artist. But obviously his style is still mainly stand up. But I agree that's the best grappler he has faced. It was also a split decision and had it not been at elevation, I think Jan would have won. Either way, it wasn't a very impressive performance. Not enough to warrant a TS, IMO, being his only fight in the division too.

You're right, Ank isn't a wrestler and I look forward to him getting chin checked to shut up neckbeards, but again, it isn't Poatan's fault that Ankalaev wins his fight against Walker (lol), then goes to the post fight presser and literally says the sentence "I will be ready to fight Alex Periera for the belt at UFC 300."

It's not his fault. But they could have made that fight earlier. Dude was already the most deserving of a TS when Alex entered the division.

What happened? He was offered the fight and ducked it with the magical Ramadan excuse even though Ankalaev himself said he would be ready for 300 knowing the date.

Are you sure he knew the date? But yeah, that was poorly handled. I wouldn't call ramadan a magical excuse though. It's a legit one, even though it's annoying for the fans.

The problem with Ank is that he never says a lot because he isn't comfortable with English and think he is pretty introverted too. So it's really hard to get the full picture about his reasons amd motives. I definitely wouldn't call it ducking just because of that mess. Especially since you are here talking about timing being a reason for Alex, this at least seems to be poorrly timed too.

I think the "protected" theory gets tossed around a lot when the reality is two things:

1. Timing of matchmaking

They could bave easily made him wait a little longer if they really had to. UFC can create the time and opportunities if they want to.

2. Heavier weights having shittier grapplers this generation

Quality doesn't really come much into it, because he wasn't fighting the "shittier grapplers" either.

And

3. Ankalaev being a one time confirmed, multiple times possible (303, 307) duck

Turning a fight down doesn't automatically mean you are ducking. 307 he said he wasn't offered the fight. I see no reason to not believe him.



Anywy even if you don't think he got protected, it's still a fact that he hasn't really fought any real grapplers, so that is definitely part of his legacy right now, and fighting Khamzat would change that dramatically, which was my point...

 

[AndersonSilva23]

Absolutely nonsensical matchup if true. Does nothing for Alex Pereira if he wins, and skyrockets Khamzat into greatness if he wins. Stakes are beyond asymmetrical.

Would catapult Khamzat into GOAT consideration. For Pierra it does nothing just a win over a lighter opponent stepping up a weight class.

Kind of like how everyone respected Volk, tipping their hat to him for stepping up a weight class to challenge, while Islam got very little credit for the wins as it was expected.

 

[RichardHarrow]

Ok just making sure.

Im pretty much a Chimaev hater tho

He’ll smoke your boy

 

[Bradillac]

People seriously picking Chimaev over Alex lmao.

 

[YourBoss]

Lol, beating the most feared grappler in the UFC right now, when his legacy as it stands is largely defined by having been protected from grapplers through out his UFC career... does nothing, eh?

people will just say, see he had trouble with a LW a WW and got beat up by a LHW with no grappling. easy win. so no he wont get any credit for that i think.

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

And what it is is protection.

The only argument that Poatan was protect was his first two fights, since then it's all been champions and ranked opponents. Most UFC fighters are "protected" (fighting at their level) in their first fights outside of signees for title shots like Asakura.

Yes, that's why he got fast tracked. Funny how people can all agree with that, but fast tracking is just protecting a fighter from the longer process that others have to go through to prove they are worthy, and protecting them from a large part of the rankings they get to skip through.

Fast tracked =/= protected.
If you're facing a ranked opponent who is undefeated in your weight class in your third fight and knocking him out, you aren't being protected. Bo Nickal is being protected. He skipped over a large part of the rankings because he knocked out the highest ranked MW he could fight before Izzy. He isn't the first guy to go on a KO streak and get a title fight and he isn't going to be the last.

Indeed, the Bruno fight was a good point in Alex' career where it would have made sense. Or as his first fight in the UFC.

Sure, again, his first two fights. Your entire argument hinges around this notion that somehow fighters in the UFC in general aren't "protected" in their first fights which just means they are fighting to their current levels of competition. When he fought Michaladis and Bruno, that's the level Poatan was at. I still don't subscribe to the notion that Alex was specifically "protected" as this entire narrative stems from the retarded notion that Ankalaev is a power wrestler who the UFC is "protecting" Alex from.

Again a candidate for early on in his UFC career. It would also have been fitting for the whole chasing Izzy narrative, because he was also a test for Izzy. It would just have helped build the storyline.

How?? Again, look at who they were fighting and when. Brunson and Cannonier were fighting for their shot on the Izzy vs Whittaker 2 card, which led to Izzy vs Cannonier, which was the card that Poatan faced Strickland on to get his title shot. Brunson was on a win streak headlining 3 fights nights previously, there isn't a moment in that run that I logically see them being matched up.

They only have to fight him once. It doesn't take much activity to fight a guy once. Also, I'm sure they would have liked that fight, especially Costa. Guy with a lot of eyes on him with a supposed clear weakness to exploit.

"Costa and Bobby are notoriously inactive, this is Poatan's fault."

It's not his fault. But they could have made that fight earlier. Dude was already the most deserving of a TS when Alex entered the division.

Nope, he really isn't. Rakic is his highest ranked win. People are still stuck on him drawing with Jan when up until Rakic his best win was Johnny Walker, who he should have been disqualified against in their first fight, but was gifted a NC. Ankalaev "deserving" the fight is through simple process of elimination, there aren't many people left for Alex to fight in the division. Poatan at the very least could actually beat Jan (clear 2-1 Poatan, don't care about the split) unlike Ank, who instead cried in the crowd

Are you sure he knew the date? But yeah, that was poorly handled. I wouldn't call ramadan a magical excuse though. It's a legit one, even though it's annoying for the fans.

The problem with Ank is that he never says a lot because he isn't comfortable with English and think he is pretty introverted too. So it's really hard to get the full picture about his reasons amd motives. I definitely wouldn't call it ducking just because of that mess. Especially since you are here talking about timing being a reason for Alex, this at least seems to be poorrly timed too.

No mistranslationo poor english excuse, he was speaking his native language very clearly.
Christianity has fasts that are longer than Ramadan, but don't have a built in excuse. Muslim fighters existed and fought during Ramadan for multiple decades before team eagle gave the world a built in excuse for not fighting February-March.

He said he wanted the fight, he was offered the fight, he ducked. You think they didn't offer him 303 as well? I'd be willing to bet they kept it quiet because it's hard to sell "Alex's most dangerous matchup" to casuals if they know he's ducked the fight multiple times.

They could bave easily made him wait a little longer if they really had to. UFC can create the time and opportunities if they want to.

None of the ones you've describe, like a Brunson fight, no.

Quality doesn't really come much into it, because he wasn't fighting the "shittier grapplers" either.

There isn't a single credentialed NCAA wrestler at MW or LHW when those used to be the divisions half of them were in. The LHW with the most submission wins currently active is fucking Ryan Spann followe by fucking Johnny Walker. Once again, the state of the grappling in the division isn't Poatan's fault.

Anywy even if you don't think he got protected, it's still a fact that he hasn't really fought any real grapplers, so that is definitely part of his legacy right now, and fighting Khamzat would change that dramatically, which was my point...

"He knocked out a Middleweight whose chin was never tested, Poatan still hasn't been tested since Khamzat has X takedowns stuffed and only landed Y then got chin checked."

You and I both have been here long enough to know that even if Poatan knocks out Jon Jones there is a battalion of salty "fans" of the sport waiting on the wings to shit on any win possible.

"Unless Alex fights the Gable Stevenson homunculus that lives in my head and trains MMA, he hasn't been tested by a real grappler."

 

[-Sideways-]

Alex will have limited time on the feet before Khamzat takes him down. What he chooses to do with that time will decide the outcome.

Khamzat by sub or Pereira by KO in the late rounds.

 

[CC27]

Alex should fight Ank and Khamzat fights DDP/SS winner but I'd be lying if I said I wouldnt be pumped to see this if they made it even if it doesnt make sense right now.

 

[Iroh]

people will just say, see he had trouble with a LW a WW and got beat up by a LHW with no grappling. easy win. so no he wont get any credit for that i think.

Jesus, you people need to stop your endless pessimism. It's not at all realistic. Yeah, there are always people who discredit. But there are at the same time always people who will give a whole lo bof credit, especially when you beat someone who is getting a lot of credit for his grappling skills fron the whole MMA world.

Stop listening to the trolls and haters so much.

 

[Iroh]

The only argument that Poatan was protect was his first two fights, since then it's all been champions and ranked opponents. Most UFC fighters are "protected" (fighting at their level) in their first fights outside of signees for title shots like Asakura.

Bud, styles make fights, not titles or ranks. If you lack that fundamental understanding, I'm not gonna continue this exponentially growing discussion. Sorry, too much effort and time with not a good prospect for having a fruitful discussion.

Fast tracked =/= protected.

If you're facing a ranked opponent who is undefeated in your weight class in your third fight and knocking him out, you aren't being protected. Bo Nickal is being protected. He skipped over a large part of the rankings because he knocked out the highest ranked MW he could fight before Izzy. He isn't the first guy to go on a KO streak and get a title fight and he isn't going to be the last.


Sure, again, his first two fights. Your entire argument hinges around this notion that somehow fighters in the UFC in general aren't "protected" in their first fights which just means they are fighting to their current levels of competition. When he fought Michaladis and Bruno, that's the level Poatan was at. I still don't subscribe to the notion that Alex was specifically "protected" as this entire narrative stems from the retarded notion that Ankalaev is a power wrestler who the UFC is "protecting" Alex from.


How?? Again, look at who they were fighting and when. Brunson and Cannonier were fighting for their shot on the Izzy vs Whittaker 2 card, which led to Izzy vs Cannonier, which was the card that Poatan faced Strickland on to get his title shot. Brunson was on a win streak headlining 3 fights nights previously, there isn't a moment in that run that I logically see them being matched up.


"Costa and Bobby are notoriously inactive, this is Poatan's fault."


Nope, he really isn't. Rakic is his highest ranked win. People are still stuck on him drawing with Jan when up until Rakic his best win was Johnny Walker, who he should have been disqualified against in their first fight, but was gifted a NC. Ankalaev "deserving" the fight is through simple process of elimination, there aren't many people left for Alex to fight in the division. Poatan at the very least could actually beat Jan (clear 2-1 Poatan, don't care about the split) unlike Ank, who instead cried in the crowd




No mistranslationo poor english excuse, he was speaking his native language very clearly.
Christianity has fasts that are longer than Ramadan, but don't have a built in excuse. Muslim fighters existed and fought during Ramadan for multiple decades before team eagle gave the world a built in excuse for not fighting February-March.

He said he wanted the fight, he was offered the fight, he ducked. You think they didn't offer him 303 as well? I'd be willing to bet they kept it quiet because it's hard to sell "Alex's most dangerous matchup" to casuals if they know he's ducked the fight multiple times.


None of the ones you've describe, like a Brunson fight, no.


There isn't a single credentialed NCAA wrestler at MW or LHW when those used to be the divisions half of them were in. The LHW with the most submission wins currently active is fucking Ryan Spann followe by fucking Johnny Walker. Once again, the state of the grappling in the division isn't Poatan's fault.



"He knocked out a Middleweight whose chin was never tested, Poatan still hasn't been tested since Khamzat has X takedowns stuffed and only landed Y then got chin checked."

You and I both have been here long enough to know that even if Poatan knocks out Jon Jones there is a battalion of salty "fans" of the sport waiting on the wings to shit on any win possible.

"Unless Alex fights the Gable Stevenson homunculus that lives in my head and trains MMA, he hasn't been tested by a real grappler."

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

Bud, styles make fights, not titles or ranks.

Sure, but rankings, opportunity, and timing make the matchmaking, that seems to be what you don't understand. I tried explaining for example why he wasn't matched with Brunson. If that's above your head, I can't help you.

 

[Iroh]

Sure, but rankings, opportunity, and timing make the matchmaking, that seems to be what you don't understand. I tried explaining for example why he wasn't matched with Brunson. If that's above your head, I can't help you.

The UFC can manipulate all of that, I already said that. It's not an excuse if they are the ones protecting. If other opponents are booked, it's because they chose to book them against other opponents . Rankings hardly actually matter. The UFC can give you a TS you didn't deserve or a highly ranked guy you didn't deserve. They regularly just bump a fighter's rank if the opponent is fighting a big name, so it will look better.

 

[Deleted member 504083]

Alex's counter wrestling against Jiri (both fights) is demonstrably improved since his first fight with Izzy.

Can you explain pls?