Relationships Parents would you do this with your kids?

[Legumes]

Pool alarms, door alarms, or other alert methods are pretty cheap these days...

 

[Crazy Source]

Pool alarms, door alarms, or other alert methods are pretty cheap these days...

To hell with all that. Just toss the little fuckers in and see what happens.

 

[Misfit23]

This kid is gonna hold this video against her mom when he older.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

I think some parents, see it a parent flex. They feel it makes them look like an old school disciplinary, no coddling nonsense throwback, in opposition to today's 'weak', 'coddling' parents.

And while i do believe there are absolutely way too many 'weak' 'coddling' parents, i think do not think these people are the reasonable counter to them. They are the opposite problem in the spectrum, imo.

Yep, that's how it looks like to me. Stuff like this along with the videoing it for social media just screams attention seeking to me. And I guarantee that their reply to criticism would be something along the lines of "parents coddle their children too much nowadays. cry harder snowflakes".

The whole 'coddling' narrative is just a way to shift from the conversation. It's like defending not washing your hands or going to the dentist, or going to work at your office job while you have the flu.
Of all the lessons you can teach a child about strength, 'throw scared kid that can barely speak and walk into pool' is probably one of the shittiest lesson plans you could start with.

If you have a pool at your house, you're rich enough to get your kid actual swimming lessons.

 

[chardog]

Yep, that's how it looks like to me. Stuff like this along with the videoing it for social media just screams attention seeking to me. And I guarantee that their reply to criticism would be something along the lines of "parents coddle their children too much nowadays. cry harder snowflakes".

The whole 'coddling' narrative is just a way to shift from the conversation. It's like defending not washing your hands or going to the dentist, or going to work at your office job while you have the flu.
Of all the lessons you can teach a child about strength, 'throw scared kid that can barely speak and walk into pool' is probably one of the shittiest lesson plans you could start with.

If you have a pool at your house, you're rich enough to get your kid actual swimming lessons.

it's called a "float test"

it's been going on for decades at least. Some kids will panic regardless, will they survive?





pay attention to the pants and sandals, that's no mistake, it's to mimmick a real life scenario.

it's a standard practice, and it's not like it happens the first day, the video doesnt explain it well, the kids usually already learned how to float unless they are babies, they've already been taught, however, the float test with sandals and pants is to see if they can instinctually float when surprised, when no one is around to help. Some places will differ on how they perform the test.

 

[ChickenBrother]

It’s necessary if you own a pool. 350 kids a year drown in pools, and if you don’t own a pool, you don’t need to worry, but if you do, accidents happen.

This about sums it up. If you have a pool in your backyard, you need to drown proof your kids ASAP. If your kids don't have regular access to pools, it's still important but you can do it on your own timeline. We took the latter approach with our kids because we don't have a pool. But half the homes in our neighborhood do, and one of the neighbor's kids down the street drowned in their backyard pool when she was around 3. They found her facedown and don't know how long she was unconscious. She was resuscitated but I don't know if she suffered brain impact and don't know the family well enough to ask. I can guarantee the parents would have taken the OP approach if it would have prevented that incident.

And it's never as simple as "herp derp, if you're rich enough to afford a pool, you're rich enough for swim lessons." Some kids learn drown proofing very quickly, some don't. We took our kids to swim lessons every weekend for almost 2 years before they were properly drown-proofed and that was only because we taught them ourselves at the HOA pool after 2 years of how to do f'ing freestyle and backstroke but NOT how to tread water or backfloat. For the latter, you had to do the drown-proofing course that required minimum 4 days/week in the middle of the day because once/week isn't enough to ingrain proper water confidence. The only kids who could make that class had yoga moms with nothing better to do during the week than take their kids to private lessons.

Yep, that's how it looks like to me. Stuff like this along with the videoing it for social media just screams attention seeking to me. And I guarantee that their reply to criticism would be something along the lines of "parents coddle their children too much nowadays. cry harder snowflakes".

This is the real issue. The OP vid is something that may not be right for many kids but COULD have been right for that kid given the family's circumstances. It is a private "making the sausage" moment of raising a kid and I don't know why the fuck anyone would post that online. If you're going to do that (and I understand why some wouldn't), at least the woman is calm, supportive and the kid does not panic or struggle once he enters the water, showing he's likely been prepped for this. The woman also "rescues" him twice when he continues to be upset and is always close by for support.

 

[ChosenOne]

maybe it is, maybe it isnt, the local swim schools in california do this, and it's to teach the kids to float. A backyard pool is just as cruel when a kid accidentally falls in, sinks, and drowns.

part of the swim lesson is to get accidentally bumped into the pool and float, it is explained, and all of the parents are in on it, the instructor will make it happen, and this was before phones and recordings got really prevalent, 2010's

yes but the point i am making is there is another way to get this done that does not involve traumatizing the child and putting them to 'sink or swim test'.

In an hour a kid can be pushed in and taught to flip on to their back and float easily, as i detail above, with no trauma needed.

 

[pugilistico]

So do you think all the parents and swim programs that do not use that method and instead teach the kids to swim without putting them to the 'sink or swim' deliberate trauma test are somehow failing their kids?

If I had kids, I would start punching them in the face early so they learn how to defend themselves.

I'm just joking of course. I said in my post that you quoted that I would be worried such a method would traumatize the kid and develop phobia of water, which would defeat the purpose of him learning to swim.

But I would rather people use this method than the opposite of not having them learn how to swim at all. There is value in this kind of training, but probably should do it when the kid is older and knows that it's training.

 

[ChosenOne]

If I had kids, I would start punching them in the face early so they learn how to defend themselves.

I'm just joking of course. I said in my post that you quoted that I would be worried such a method would traumatize the kid and develop phobia of water, which would defeat the purpose of him learning to swim.

But I would rather people use this method than the opposite of not having them learn how to swim at all. There is value in this kind of training, but probably should do it when the kid is older and knows that it's training.

Ok.

But i still struggle with the binary you place as it almost suggests that there are only two paths of not teaching the kid, or this way.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

it's called a "float test"

it's been going on for decades at least. Some kids will panic regardless, will they survive?





pay attention to the pants and sandals, that's no mistake, it's to mimmick a real life scenario.

it's a standard practice, and it's not like it happens the first day, the video doesnt explain it well, the kids usually already learned how to float unless they are babies, they've already been taught, however, the float test with sandals and pants is to see if they can instinctually float when surprised, when no one is around to help. Some places will differ on how they perform the test.

"Survive"? Part of my issue with this is that I can't wrap my mind around the idea of a 2 year old being in a position where they'd be in a pool by themselves and drown. I'm obviously not against the idea of children learning to swim/float, but wtf are people doing where it's a possibility that a kid that young could be in this position?
And if they were in this position how long would the kid have to float before the irresponsible parent found them?
I'd also be curious to know how effective is this training in real life? What's the chances of the kid getting into this situation and then actually not panic and use it to save his life while he's by himself? How many classes do you have to do before this became instinctual and he didn't panic?


But ignoring all of that, and let's say this is a reality for a family, these videos that you linked here I have 0 issue with. Those are totally different from the first video where the kid was distressed and crying before he even hit the water, and then has his head float up against the concrete edge of the pool on top of that. Add the videoing of it from 2 other people on top of that, and it just looks like the last thing they were worried about was the well being of the kid.

The videos you showed were a supportive environment, people were in the pool, and the kids seemed ready. So the training isn't really where I see fault, but how it's done.
The first video just looks needlessly potentially traumatic.

 

[ModernMatt]

Growing up in the high arctic, we don't have swimming pools. When i went south for holidays when i was about 5-6 years old, i would play in the pool and my uncle would teach me to swim. I thought I had the hang of it, so one day i went to the pool by myself, i was sitting on the tire tube i went to the deep end and the tube flipped....i panicked and forgot all my training, was struggling to get up for air, was going up and down like a buoy stick, instead of swimming to shallow waters.
Thankfully my uncle saw and saved me.
So i approved of learning to panic swim, it would of helped me

 

[SmilinDesperado]

This about sums it up. If you have a pool in your backyard, you need to drown proof your kids ASAP. If your kids don't have regular access to pools, it's still important but you can do it on your own timeline. We took the latter approach with our kids because we don't have a pool. But half the homes in our neighborhood do, and one of the neighbor's kids down the street drowned in their backyard pool when she was around 3. They found her facedown and don't know how long she was unconscious. She was resuscitated but I don't know if she suffered brain impact and don't know the family well enough to ask. I can guarantee the parents would have taken the OP approach if it would have prevented that incident.

And it's never as simple as "herp derp, if you're rich enough to afford a pool, you're rich enough for swim lessons." Some kids learn drown proofing very quickly, some don't. We took our kids to swim lessons every weekend for almost 2 years before they were properly drown-proofed and that was only because we taught them ourselves at the HOA pool after 2 years of how to do f'ing freestyle and backstroke but NOT how to tread water or backfloat. For the latter, you had to do the drown-proofing course that required minimum 4 days/week in the middle of the day because once/week isn't enough to ingrain proper water confidence. The only kids who could make that class had yoga moms with nothing better to do during the week than take their kids to private lessons.




This is the real issue. The OP vid is something that may not be right for many kids but COULD have been right for that kid given the family's circumstances. It is a private "making the sausage" moment of raising a kid and I don't know why the fuck anyone would post that online. If you're going to do that (and I understand why some wouldn't), at least the woman is calm, supportive and the kid does not panic or struggle once he enters the water, showing he's likely been prepped for this. The woman also "rescues" him twice when he continues to be upset and is always close by for support.

My "herp derp" comment about if you're rich enough to afford a pool then you're rich enough to afford proper swimming lessons was a criticism of how she is teaching this child, not what she is teaching.
I highly doubt this is the most effective way of doing this.
I would personally be more interested in a making-sure-my-2-year-old-doesn't-have-access-to-a body-of-water-while-I"m-not-around-proofing so that I didn't have to worry about the whole drowning part.

Yeah, i don't get why anyone would film it and post it online. Again, my criticism is largely on HOW this is being done, not that it is being done.
I'm seeing the kid's head bounce against the pool's edge, so the whole thing looked like a shit show to me.
I've no issue with the idea of this training, (i question how beneficial it would be in a real life scenario though) but if you're going to do this, I don't understand why this would be the route one would take.
The videos posted by @chardog looked a lot more beneficial and a good way to get a child used to water.

 

[Prex32]

That little bastard knows what to do if he falls in now, he's already experienced the sudden shock and panic of the situation and learned that he can fix the situation and save himself quickly
Good parenting imo

it has maybe physical advantages for the future, but that psychological shock can remain for life, depends on the kid, it can mess someone up

 

[tank666]

I wouldn't i mean damn there's gotta be better ways to teach your kids to swim right ?!

My kids both swim well had lessons at local pool. This seems bit extreme to me?

 

[Mike]

i don't know if it is the 'snowflake' way because there is another outcome that is possible which is the kid becomes so frightened they develop a phobia that then does not allow them swim ever. That may not happen a lot but, when it does, that is a failure compared to teaching them to swim and float without trauma, which can be done at any age.

For instance there is no reason a parent/instructor could not be in that pool, with that child from that video, holding the kid while putting him to float on his back. You keep repeating that until the kid no longer needs the parents/instructors hands. Once the child can float with no help, you then teach them how to hold their breath under water. In our volunteer group we would blow on the child's nose, they would stop breathing and then you go under the water with them. First time is instant in and out and then you lengthen the time over many other dips.

ONce you have a child who learns to hold their breath under water and can float on its back you can drop them or leave them in the pool and they will do it naturally. You will see the kid bobbing around and then flip to their back as they have fun in the water.

Is that you MM?

 

[ChosenOne]

My kids both swim well had lessons at local pool. This seems bit extreme to me?

it is extreme as the end goal can be accomplished without the trauma but it does take the parent or instructor investing a bit more time (about 1 hour) whereas this 'sink or swim' method requires no time investment and is usually complete in less than 5 minutes.

 

[ChosenOne]

Is that you MM?

Not sure what you are asking there Mike but i am very curious what it is you did not like about my post that followed that??

 

[Mike]

Not sure what you are asking there Mike but i am very curious what it is you did not like about my post that followed that??

Oh nothing your av just made me wonder if you were someone that used to post here, that's all.

 

[Vergilius]

As a parent who has pulled a drowning kid out of an ocean absolutely f*cking not. Screw that mom and anybody who does that. Almost drowning is traumatic and having your parent whom you should be able to trust fling you in a pool and leave you desperately struggle for breath is borderline abuse. Take your kids to normal swim classes instead and teach them like a normal person. That's what I did.

 

[ChosenOne]

Oh nothing your av just made me wonder if you were someone that used to post here, that's all.

let me ask, as i do not know the answer to this. What happens to a person here who admits to being a prior poster who was banned?

I am asking for a friend.