Palm Strikes in Street Fight?

[Jack Stevonovich]

yes @Adnan Adil palm strikes are very efficient way to stroke the dick. Always stroke the dick in a street fight.

 

[Ilk]

I have been in few fights myself.
I believe palm strikes are more favourable for hooks to slap with them. I ve slapped with a left hook a guy on the year and he lost balance from the impact and started shouting... guessing he did not like it.

Strights a believe should be done with fists, but we are looking for precision here. Targeting the nose, the chin, solar plexus and in general some softer body spots. Uppercuts again the fists.

 

[JohnPJones]

If you try intentionally to gouge someone's eye the punishment would be worse, compared with that case in which this happens accidentally. 3 factors are important according to the civil law system (used in Europe)- the tool, the target and the intensity of the attempt.
Breaking wrist is possible IMO (never happened in sparring) if you connect with the upper part of your hand the wrist will take enormous pressure with your opponent's forehead. The fingers are in danger also, but they are in danger even when using fists, too. I have injured bad my left thumb in an open hand sparring, when we have collided with our hands throwing simultaneously left hooks. A partner of mine damaged his fist and especially his thumb when throwing body shot- I lifted on of my legs and blocked the punch with my shin, a cracking noise came from his fist, which slid and it next stop was the thumb, which cracked even worse.



Very nice explanation, man. Honestly in the beginning I wasn't thinking that this argument is serious- the people don't see much use of palm strikes on the TV and that is why they don't use them in a fight, but with the time I've realized that the things might be just like this. All what we hear since we are kids is "Slapping is for girls, real men use fists.". The tough guys on the movies always use fists. The combat athletes use fists, too. And in that way we might be programmed to use punches instead of palm strikes.
And about the injuries- I have seen injuries (and sustained minor ones) from both ways of striking as I mentioned above. I have tried to punch with decent amount of force elbows of my sparring partners (still not full force) and this was in a relatively cold day and I wasn't impressed from the feeling honestly. But this doesn't mean that if I go full force the result would be the same.

if the top of your hand hits the forehead it's pretty unlikely to break. the wrist can bend pretty good in that direction. if you work on flexibility in the wrist with the intent of using palm strikes for self defense the likelihood goes down even more.

 

[JohnPJones]

I don't think it's so much indoctrination as basic biology.
Clenching your fists is a pretty universal stress response and most of the time you're fighting "in the street", you're stressed as fuck.

is it a basic stress response? thinking of the high stress situations in my life making a fist wasn't my immediate reaction.

for some it might be a 'natural' stress response because that's how theyve been conditioned

 

[JohnPJones]

If you do ever end up in a serious fight where you feel your life is in danger, it won't matter if you break your hand.

You'd rather be forced to take time of work with a broken hand than be dead because you hesitated trying to use palm strikes.

I don't care how much you drill them, it will slow you down.

Yeah bas and the like used palm strikes back in the day. But he wasn't in life threatening danger and was prioritising injury prevention. He could afford to risk that extra split second of hesitation.

citation needed for palm strikes slowing you down compared to punches. open hands are more relaxed than clenched fists, relaxed muscles move faster than tight muscles...

 

[JohnPJones]

Haha he's a smart guy. I guess here are my reasons for thinking that.

1) A fist is more likely to go through someone's guard if they cover their face.
An open hand has a bigger surface area where a large percentage of it flexes.

2) I guess I could be mistaken if you train palm strikes as much as Bas, but there are less ways you can strike someone with your palm, from less angles. So would you settle for no punches when the opportunity is open or would you switch between palm and fist? Both of those options create chance for hesitation.

3) Doing anything in your line of vision with your hands activates a certain thing in your brain that improves manual dexterity/precision/tactile feedback. I forget the name for it. Closing your eyes or your fists eliminates this.

You don't notice it when you are doing something habitual after lots of practice. But it comes back in high pressure situations for even the simplest of open hand tasks.

The power aspect of punch Vs open palm can be argued. So can the above points.. but if there is a chance any of the above 3 things come in to play, it's not worth the risk.

I don't advocate violence outside of the gym at all and physical conflict should be avoided if at all possible but I've been in a few bad situations. Grew up in a place with high knife crime and poverty, fortunately few guns. And my only advice is tuck your chin deep, get close and throw as many straight rights as you can in rapid succession until you can get away safely.

If you're at a distance where you can kick or circle away, you are in an ego fight. So you have the ability to defuse the situation or escape.

if you're properly palm striking then there isn't much flex in the part making contact...any angle of attack you can make with a punch you can make with an open hand, it may just go from a palm strike to a knife hand.

 

[Adnan Adil]

Haha he's a smart guy. I guess here are my reasons for thinking that.

1) A fist is more likely to go through someone's guard if they cover their face.
An open hand has a bigger surface area where a large percentage of it flexes.

2) I guess I could be mistaken if you train palm strikes as much as Bas, but there are less ways you can strike someone with your palm, from less angles. So would you settle for no punches when the opportunity is open or would you switch between palm and fist? Both of those options create chance for hesitation.

3) Doing anything in your line of vision with your hands activates a certain thing in your brain that improves manual dexterity/precision/tactile feedback. I forget the name for it. Closing your eyes or your fists eliminates this.

You don't notice it when you are doing something habitual after lots of practice. But it comes back in high pressure situations for even the simplest of open hand tasks.

The power aspect of punch Vs open palm can be argued. So can the above points.. but if there is a chance any of the above 3 things come in to play, it's not worth the risk.

I don't advocate violence outside of the gym at all and physical conflict should be avoided if at all possible but I've been in a few bad situations. Grew up in a place with high knife crime and poverty, fortunately few guns. And my only advice is tuck your chin deep, get close and throw as many straight rights as you can in rapid succession until you can get away safely.

If you're at a distance where you can kick or circle away, you are in an ego fight. So you have the ability to defuse the situation or escape.

Great reply, man! Really I like how you think and how you put your arguments, despite of the fact that there are so many arguments in support for both views and it is very hard for a man o understand where is the truth.
1) Yes, no doubt about that, but... We have drilled some punches and palm strikes with a friend of mine and the results were shocking for me. The horizontal and vertical punches were equally potent to go through someone's guard. When we were shelling, then no doubt the vertical punches were better, but... with a cost- your thumb, which hits the partner's arm always. The only way to avoid that is to throw something between straight and back fist with the knuckles much ahead from the rest of the fist to form something like triangle. The palm strikes- it is not big surprise- they were a little harder to land mostly, but when shelling- they were able to angle and to land with the outer part of the hand right between the arms.
2) Yes, one of the the palm strikes' biggest disadvantages is the lack of opportunities to create angles like with the fists. You are totally right about the hesitation- many people quote Bruce Lee about the guy who has trained 10000 kicks and about the guy who has trained 1 kick 10000 times, but don't realize what means this. You can not have million strikes and moves in your arsenal and to be able to use them equally good. You can not afford training with tens of hours every day only techniques. If you have million strikes in your arsenal, most likely you wouldn't be able in anything. Also just think about the boxers- they have few strikes, but they are so dangerous in and out of the ring- when you think too much about exactly which of your deadly techniques to use, you give your opponent the opportunity to use his only two punches, but sometimes one one- two combo could be enough to finish a fight.
3) Interesting, I have never heard this, but sounds very interesting. I would do some research on the topic.
I am happy to see your opinion about those ego fights, which could be life f***ers, but sadly many people don't realize this until something nasty happens.

yes @Adnan Adil palm strikes are very efficient way to stroke the dick. Always stroke the dick in a street fight.

Sounds scary!

I have been in few fights myself.
I believe palm strikes are more favourable for hooks to slap with them. I ve slapped with a left hook a guy on the year and he lost balance from the impact and started shouting... guessing he did not like it.

Strights a believe should be done with fists, but we are looking for precision here. Targeting the nose, the chin, solar plexus and in general some softer body spots. Uppercuts again the fists.

Yes, you have reach advantage with open hand hooks, at least I believe so. The angle is wider and your arm is straighter. About the straights- you are right- the straight punches should be precise, but when it is dark, or when the adrenaline is high and in other situations like this the palm strikes give you the comfort to throw strikes without worrying so much about hurting your hands. I like that story about that shouting guy! Honestly, I think that even if this guy wasn't shouting at you after the palm strikes, probably he didn't like the punishment which he has taken.

if the top of your hand hits the forehead it's pretty unlikely to break. the wrist can bend pretty good in that direction. if you work on flexibility in the wrist with the intent of using palm strikes for self defense the likelihood goes down even more.

Yes, I have tried this and I agree with you. Especially with some extra flexibility, it is hard to happen something like this.

And in conclusion I believe that the advantages of the fists are:
1) More available angles of attack.
2) Smaller surface of impact- more damage to the face and to the organs in the body.
3) Bigger shock on impact, because it is harder surface.

Advantages of the palm strikes:

1) You can throw them in bigger volume.
2) You can throw them faster, without aiming too much.
3) You can throw them with full force, without worrying about connection with the forehead.

And by the way- light to medium punch to the forehead is very painful and is not big pain for the attackers hand, I know this from experience. From other hand- when the damage is accumulated to your punches- hitting even soft targets could be a painful experience.

 

[Jack Stevonovich]

@Adnan Adil from Suck Kwon Do comes a kind of oral judo which is more advanced than open palm stroke that comes in handy for street fights with multiple attackers. When you oral judo combined with open palm stroke you can take on three attackers simultaneously. There is a way to accommodate a fourth attacker: but, it is for advanced practitioners only.

 

[Adnan Adil]

@Adnan Adil from Suck Kwon Do comes a kind of oral judo which is more advanced than open palm stroke that comes in handy for street fights with multiple attackers. When you oral judo combined with open palm stroke you can take on three attackers simultaneously. There is a way to accommodate a fourth attacker: but, it is for advanced practitioners only.

Oh, man, you've made my day! There are so many dangerous techniques on the streets and not only there.

 

[eneck]

Hand strokes never work. At most they can fool the adversary

 

[Kenneth Andrews]

Before I got into MMA all I had done was point sparring. My cousin sort of recruited me to fight no holds barred with a bunch of other kids.

The first guy I fought I caught with a good hook kick. He ended up taking me down and landed in a weird sideways guard. Basically I had him in the "python squeeze" as I used open hand strikes to his chin. Was pretty effective for me.

I could even see them working in MMA when you could use the extra inch of space to generate some velocity in your strikes. Like in the Mount or side control.

Beyond that I think Bas Rutten proved how effective open hand strikes can be.

 

[Adnan Adil]

Before I got into MMA all I had done was point sparring. My cousin sort of recruited me to fight no holds barred with a bunch of other kids.

The first guy I fought I caught with a good hook kick. He ended up taking me down and landed in a weird sideways guard. Basically I had him in the "python squeeze" as I used open hand strikes to his chin. Was pretty effective for me.

I could even see them working in MMA when you could use the extra inch of space to generate some velocity in your strikes. Like in the Mount or side control.

Beyond that I think Bas Rutten proved how effective open hand strikes can be.

Well done, man! Sounds great! By the way- I believe that in ground and pound there is no significant difference how you strike- with your fists or palms, unless you hit the ground, but this is unlikely if you hold your opponent. Also the GnP is not so powerful as the stand up striking.

 

[JSN]

A palm strike to the tip of the nose will send your opponent's nosebone into his brain, killing him instantly.

 

[Kenneth Andrews]

Well done, man! Sounds great! By the way- I believe that in ground and pound there is no significant difference how you strike- with your fists or palms, unless you hit the ground, but this is unlikely if you hold your opponent. Also the GnP is not so powerful as the stand up striking.

Well to be clear I'm not talking a high mount where you can rain punches. As a big heavyweight that's not always feasible as good guys can buck you. Especially big boys with fat bellys that make it impossible to reach the ground with your knees. So I like to sprawl out and hook their legs for control. So using palm strikes gives you an extra inch or so to generate a little momentum in your short ranged strikes. Still nothing with knockout power. But I find it effective.

A palm strike to the tip of the nose will send your opponent's nosebone into his brain, killing him instantly.

Please tell me that was sarcasm..

 

[Adnan Adil]

Well to be clear I'm not talking a high mount where you can rain punches. As a big heavyweight that's not always feasible as good guys can buck you. Especially big boys with fat bellys that make it impossible to reach the ground with your knees. So I like to sprawl out and hook their legs for control. So using palm strikes gives you an extra inch or so to generate a little momentum in your short ranged strikes. Still nothing with knockout power. But I find it effective.


Please tell me that was sarcasm..

Aren't the guys who you control on the ground by grabbing their legs striking your head? When we just grapple, I adore this position, but I realize that in a real fight my head is vulnerable for strikes.

 

[Kenneth Andrews]

I suppose a little bit. But again nothing to worry about. From that position we both have weak strikes. But I'm on top and I can force them to work while I mostly rest. Not to mention you can always pop up for the occasional elbow. They can't.

 

[Adnan Adil]

I suppose a little bit. But again nothing to worry about. From that position we both have weak strikes. But I'm on top and I can force them to work while I mostly rest. Not to mention you can always pop up for the occasional elbow. They can't.

And you can work the body like crazy, too.

 

[JSN]

Please tell me that was sarcasm..

it is known.

 

[Jack Stevonovich]

it is known.

yeah, I heard about that too. I never tried it yet because it is obviously too deadly.

 

[Adnan Adil]

it is known.

yeah, I heard about that too. I never tried it yet because it is obviously too deadly.

That is why the strikes with the inner part of the hand are forbidden in boxing. They are just too dangerous compared with the super heavy punches of the elite pro boxers. Probably because of the same reason combat sambo allows almost everything which is allowed in MMA plus- groin strikes, knees to the head of a grounded opponent, headbutts and etc, but not palm strikes. No person on Earth can be prepared for a good old palm strike to the nose, which will send it right in the brain.