palestine/israel, what would it take?

[Rod1]

Israel is doing it's best to minimize civilian casulties. Most of those killed in the last few days were militants.

4th Geneva convention states that no population transfer should be done during occupation and that no permanent settlers can move in, that no land must be confiscated or transfered except that for military use exclusively.

Fuck Hamas and Gaza, Israelis left Gaza and they are still throwing rockets. My beef is the west bank occupation.

 

[Zoti]

4th Geneva convention states that no population transfer should be done during occupation and that no permanent settlers can move in, that no land must be confiscated or transfered except that for military use exclusively.

Fuck Hamas and Gaza, Israelis left Gaza and they are still throwing rockets. My beef is the west bank occupation.

What do you think will happen if Israel withdraws out of the West Bank?

I can tell you exactly what will happen. You just said fuck them.

 

[Rod1]

What do you think will happen if Israel withdraws out of the West Bank?

I can tell you exactly what will happen. You just said fuck them.

Withdraw the settlers not the military occupation, slowly end the occupation if the palestinians cooperate and if they dont continue the occupation.

You have a false dichotomy, you are tying the illegal settlements to the military occupation

 

[Marsupial]

Do you see any sort of victory for Isreal, or do you just hope thing go on the way they are now with unending war?

The way I see it, Israel is already victorious in that the Jews have a powerful state of their own. The only thing remaining for them to win is peace and long term security, but that should be seen as a shared goal for the Palestinians also (and the wider region). What I feel needs to happen is for the Palestinians, and surrounding Arab/Islamic states to accept that Israel's victory in existing needn't amount to automatically entailing a defeat and enduring humiliation for them.

Any way are you personally connected to Isreal in some way?

No.

Used to be vehemently anti-Israel (beginning of Second Intifada) then, several years later, as I read more about it, performed a volte-face and became an admirer of the Jewish state and increasingly disgusted by the nature of the groups and individuals opposed to it. Simple as that.

 

[Marsupial]

I don't think I've ever spoken to anyone who believes Israel is in the right who wasn't Jewish.

I'm available to chat here if you like.

The world pretty much views the whole thing as an invasion, now the world's largest concentration camp.

Not really, that's something of a Eurocentric view (not uncommon with regard to Middle East, however). There are large swathes of the world that don't have much of an opnion on Israel/Palestine at all. In East Asia, for example, you'll be hard pressed to find anyone that gives a flying fuck about the issue.

 

[Marsupial]

Settlements are, in my view, an unwise venture that have done Israel enormous harm internationally, and they are plainly anatagonistic to the peace process.

thank you for admitting to & proving my point, you see nothing wrong with the illegal settlements

Bebop22k - Not the War Room's best when it comes to reading comprehension.

 

[weed]

Bebop22k - Not the War Room's best when it comes to reading comprehension.

Marsupial - conveniently dismisses questions asked to him, so not to expose his true nature.

 

[Marsupial]

Marsupial - conveniently dismisses questions asked to him, so not to expose his true nature.

What questions?

Trying to keep up with this ongoing event (which I find interesting) in terms of news updates and reading and replying to posts in here can be tricky, given how much is happening and being discussed. I don't remember your questions. What were they and how did I dismiss them?

 

[juggler86]

Wow, Hamas actually launched an amphibious attack on Israel. It failed miserably, but that is far more bold than they have ever been.

Missiles would have reached Tel Aviv if the gate didn't get them. Honestly, I'm shocked Israel hasn't invaded already.

They have done amphibious invasions before. I cant recall the pigs name, but he was captured and freed in a swap. He killed a 3yo, and was thrown a parade when released, glad some of you stick up for that.

No matter how much you hate jews, how can you agree with a "state" that promotes that.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

one big bomb rids the world of this nonsense once and for all.

This area is exhausting and I just don't care about these people and their drama any longer.

 

[Marsupial]

They have done amphibious invasions before. I cant recall the pigs name, but he was captured and freed in a swap. He killed a 3yo, and was thrown a parade when released, glad some of you stick up for that.

No matter how much you hate jews, how can you agree with a "state" that promotes that.

You're thinking of Samir K.untar.

Strictly speaking, he was a member of the Palestinian Liberation Front and the Israeli child he killed, Einat Haran, was 4-years-old. Apparently, after shooting Einat's father in the head, he killed the child by smashing his head against some rocks and further crushing his skull with the butt of a rifle.

Einat's mother, Smadar Haran, was hiding in their house with her 2-year-old daughter, Yael. In attempting to stifle Yael's terrified whimpers in order not to reveal themselves to the other Palestinian terrorists on their property, Smadar accidentally smothered and killed her own daughter.

K.untar was welcomed home in Lebanon as a hero upon his release, yes. He was later decorated and honoured by Bashar al-Assad and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad also.

 

[Zoti]

Here is what it is going to take. According to someone from the other side of the border.

 

[Bargey]

Leaders of Hamas, Al Qaeda, and the Martyrs brigade have already told us what it would take. The extermination of all Jews. Tough to negotiate with that.

So how does building more settlements prevent that? If Israel started behaving you would instantly get thousands of Muslims to stop wanting to blow Jews up and millions to be far less sympathetic to Muslim extremists in terms of the Arab - Israeli conflict.

But they won't now will they? Why not is the question.

 

[Ayin]

So how does building more settlements prevent that? If Israel started behaving you would instantly get thousands of Muslims to stop wanting to blow Jews up and millions to be far less sympathetic to Muslim extremists in terms of the Arab - Israeli conflict.

But they won't now will they? Why not is the question.

Your response to that post doesn't make any sense. You may have a point, but it's entirely independent of what you quoted.

 

[lfd0311]

So how does building more settlements prevent that? If Israel started behaving you would instantly get thousands of Muslims to stop wanting to blow Jews up and millions to be far less sympathetic to Muslim extremists in terms of the Arab - Israeli conflict.

But they won't now will they? Why not is the question.

LOL, no, you wouldn't.

 

[LionExMachina]

Here is what it is going to take. According to someone from the other side of the border.

I really don't know shit, but this what I think I know:

If Hamas gives up it's current facade they will be considered "Uncle Toms" like many frustrated Palestinians probably view Abbas. Hamas is mostly "revolution" and "piety." I think if given the opportunity they could produce the necessary leadership, but they seem to be banking on winning the "street" so they view the bullshit rockets as perhaps some kind way to bolster support, because how powerful isreal has become, Hamas can never "win."

Hamas came to political power because of the ineptitude and corruption of Fatah, right? They were created as Hezbollah was created, as a response to israeli defense force.

Why doesn't isreal try to engage Hamas in a meaningful way (no guns, no motors) and give them the sense of equity in tthe negotiations going forward.

 

[LionExMachina]

I really don't know shit, but this what I think I know:

If Hamas gives up it's current facade they will be considered "Uncle Toms" like many frustrated Palestinians probably view Abbas. Hamas is mostly "revolution" and "piety." I think if given the opportunity they could produce the necessary leadership, but they seem to be banking on winning the "street" so they view the bullshit rockets as perhaps some kind way to bolster support, because with how powerful isreal has become, Hamas can never "win."

Hamas came to political power because of the ineptitude and corruption of Fatah, right? They were created as Hezbollah was created, as a response to the israeli defense force's incursions. And also as a response to ineffectual governance.

 

[lfd0311]

Why doesn't isreal try to engage Hamas in a meaningful way (no guns, no motors) and give them the sense of equity in tthe negotiations going forward.

Probably because Hamas is a terrorist organization that has said numerous times that it will never recognize Israel as a state and will not stop attacking it or fighting agianst it until it is destroyed.

 

[uWot]

I really don't know shit, but this what I think I know:

If Hamas gives up it's current facade they will be considered "Uncle Toms" like many frustrated Palestinians probably view Abbas. Hamas is mostly "revolution" and "piety." I think if given the opportunity they could produce the necessary leadership, but they seem to be banking on winning the "street" so they view the bullshit rockets as perhaps some kind way to bolster support, because how powerful isreal has become, Hamas can never "win."

Hamas came to political power because of the ineptitude and corruption of Fatah, right? They were created as Hezbollah was created, as a response to israeli defense force.

Why doesn't isreal try to engage Hamas in a meaningful way (no guns, no motors) and give them the sense of equity in tthe negotiations going forward.

That's a really interesting point. Netanyahu and others until recently kept using this argument: Hamas is not legitimate because they do not represent all Palestinians (they were only elected in Gaza). The PA is not completely legitimate, because they do not represent all Palestinians. The problem is that Palestinians have no united front.

So recently, something happened that nobody expected. Hamas and Fatah reconciled. This was not to make Fatah more extreme, but to bring Hamas to the mainstream. Fatah understands that these rockets and violence do little good, and just give Israel an excuse to attack Gaza. So Fatah's position is that peace can only be achieved through dialogue. I think they also understand that if Palestinians look as docile and helpless as possible (no violence), they might gain more sympathy from Western countries.

So now that Hamas and Fatah reconciled, something that Netanyaha had essentially been calling for, he outright rejects them and refuses to continue negotiations. Why? He says that Hamas is a terrorist organization and Israel does not negotiate with terrorist. However, factually, this is untrue. They've negotiated with Hamas and other terrorist organizations many times for prisoner swaps, often giving Hamas back their "terrorists".

http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/A-history-of-Israels-prisoner-swaps

It's interesting because the rift between Fatah and Hamas seemed so extreme, that few people could have expected for them to ever come back together. So Netanyahu was caught off guard, and his excuse about Palestinians not having a legitimate united representative, fell apart.

Here are some interesting articles on the subject:

http://normanfinkelstein.com/2014/excellent-commentary-on-hamas-pa-unity-deal/

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/1.586924

http://zcomm.org/znetarticle/on-ham...when-unity-loses-its-meaning-by-ramzy-baroud/

This is an old but interesting article, on the first Israeli elected to one of Fatah's legislative bodies: http://zcomm.org/znetarticle/the-first-israeli-jew-in-fatah-s-parliament-by-jonathan-cook/

 

[Rod1]

LOL, no, you wouldn't.

How many israeli arabs have blown themselves up in the late 5 years? 2 million arabs with no citizenship right and they dont blow themselves up.