Overtraining Arms

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by FATKID, Aug 25, 2005.

  1. FATKID

    FATKID Green Belt

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    I've been lifting weights for quite a while. But only recently have I really tried to familiarize myself with the intricacies of strength and sundry training methods. I'm beginning to see that while there are exceptions (just like every rule), most people advocating training styles are just spewing off about what works for them and condescending to those whose stray from their particular brand of the straight and narrow. This board is no different save for the fact that the debate is open and welcomed. However, there are a handful of regulars that seem insightful, honest, and educated. I am none of these things. That's why I want to know what the good word on training arms is around here. It seems as if discussing exercises like curls is taboo or off limits. I've done curls and gone without them and have noticed my chokes suffering when I omit them. I will concede that while my way produces results, another may well be better suited to me. For reference, I will include what I'm currently doing below. What is considered overtraining of the arms (barring the obvious diminishing returns)? Am I, while still seeing steady results, overtraining? Undertraining?

    Arms--once a week

    Please for give my misuse and abuse of the vernacular

    Overhead Tri extension (lateral)
    reps: 10, 8, 6 drop weight 10

    Tri Press on Lat machine
    reps: 10, 8, 6

    weighted dips
    reps: 12, 10, 8 form focused heavily

    Seated one arm curls (between legs)
    reps: 10, 8, 6 drop weight 10

    Barbell curl
    reps: 10, 8, 6

    Hammer curls
    reps: 10, 8, 6

    approx. 45 seconds of rest/stretching between sets


    Hopefully that makes some sort of sense. Currently, arms are done on Thursday. Chest and back are done on Mon. and Tues., respectively, in order to give my tri's and bi's some rest.
     
  2. Aerts/Mir33

    Aerts/Mir33 Purple Belt

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    I'm gonna let Urban take this one
     
  3. I'llKillYaFace

    I'llKillYaFace Banned Banned

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    i find that working each muscle twice a week is helpful. . . .


    mon. chest - biceps
    tues. shoulders - triceps
    wed. back-legs- abs
    thrus. off
    fri. start over. . .
     
  4. Squabbin

    Squabbin White Belt

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    I very much disagree, i have had much better gains from reducing my workouts to lower volume with heavier weight and only training each muscle group once a week. As far as your arm routine if i put in that much volume into just bicep training i personally would not grow. I find it a lot better to compound movements together that compliment eachother. (IE. Back and BI's, Chest/Tris/Delts, and legs on its own day. By working out chest one day which hits your tri's, and then tris again like 48 hours later you put urself at serious risk of overtraining. Same goes with various other excersises...
     
  5. Urban

    Urban Savage Mystic

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    I'm wondering if you realise how small the muscles in your arms are in comparison to more important muscles groups, how little you actually need to train them, how fruitless curls and isolation exercises are, and how much I hate both this thread and your routine. In short, your routine sucks. You should not be focusing on bodyparts or specific muscles but instead be thinking about training movements in the weight room. I'll say that again: You should not be focusing on bodyparts or specific muscles but instead be thinking about training movements in the weight room.

    Furthermore, doing three types of curls is stupid. Pick one, grab a thickbar, and go heavy. FYI, I don't do curls at all. Isolation work (exercises primarily focused on the movement of ONLY one joint) are shitty for building strength.

    People who don't know any better are going to say two things to me:
    1) how am I supposed to strengthen my biceps. To which I will reply: You should not be focusing on bodyparts or specific muscles but instead be thinking about training movements in the weight room. Curling is NOT a movement that occurs in the world outside the weight room, rowing motions and pulling motions are however.
    2) this one varies a bit but normally it's something assinine like "but I bet if I got really good at curls I could get out of an armbar." Look, I have one sambo class under my belt and that's all the grappling I know, and I promise If I get an armbar on you, you're fucked unless you curl over 150 lbs in each hand. I happen to know that tank can't do that, I'd be willing to bet bob sapp, and I pretty sure you can't either.

    Knock off this horse shit and learn to lift for real.
     
  6. Barut

    Barut Banned Banned

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    Fatkid,

    If I remember correctly you posted your PR's a while ago and you're really strong. If you keep making gains in strength, then what you're doing isn't horrible. Personally, I do very little iso work (2 sets of hammercurls per week), but everybody's different. You're going to get flamed here for not doing what the mods say, but again, you're a strong dude, so do your thing. If "learning to lift for real" get's you the results of it's preacher, then don't do it. Good luck man.
     
  7. my big toe

    my big toe Yellow Belt

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    Reverse close-grip pullups will work your arms.
     
  8. Squabbin

    Squabbin White Belt

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    Unfortunately i'm forced to agree with most of what he's said. Big compound movements are the only way to go to pack on real size and strength. I focus on pulling deads, squatting, and benching. Hell those three excersises alone with put size on just about anyone. As far as isolation excersises (IE. preacher curls, tricep pushdowns, etc. etc.) they should be kept to a minimum. I personally only do 2 sets of direct bicep work a week and thats wide grip straight bar curls not concentration curls or other crap like that. A great man once told me "When all else fails....SQUAT!!!!" and so far its been doin the trick. If your lookin for a nice solid routine to pack on some size check out my training log. It's basic principles of building strength and mass i've gotten from guys like PullinBig over on the Steroidology forums.
     
  9. slayer36

    slayer36 Blue Belt

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    i like chossing from heavy hammer curls, weighted chinups at shoulder width w/ palms in, weighted dips, tricep bench, and various tricep extensions/lockouts for upper arms.
    for 4arms there is a lot, such as farmers walks, plate pinches, and wrist roller.
     
  10. Matt Thornton

    Matt Thornton Amateur Fighter

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    Look. You need to ask yourself a question, and you need to be totally honest with yourself. You don't need to post the answer in here. Are you REALLY doing curls and pushdowns because you think it helps your MMA game, or do you want bigger arms?

    There's really nothing wrong with wanting to improve your physical appearance. It gets bashed on here a lot, because most guys in here advocate power lifting and athletic improvement, which are much different from bodybuilding. Unless you're competing at a high level of MMA (or unless your true goal is to get there), you don't need to focus totally on PL and athletic development. If MMA is more of a hobby than a career to you, it's fine to do a little bodybuilding. As guys, we want women, and so we want to make ourselves appealing to them.

    But please don't kid yourself saying that your chokes improve when you do curls. No move in Jiu-Jitsu is dependent on strength. Having stronger biceps is not all of a sudden going to magically make you choke better. If you find that you aren't able to get the choke like you used to, it's because of one or more of the following:

    -You're not sparring enough, so you're not developing the sense of timing and "feel" for getting the choke
    -You're not drilling the move correctly, and trying to muscle it in
    -Your sparring partners are getting to know you better, and can see your setups

    Remember, the key to the Rear Naked Choke (I'm assuming this is the choke you're talking about) is to push on the head, and to pull your arms and shoulders back like you're doing a seated row. Are you sure that's what you're doing? Some people just try to squeeze, and that doesn't always work.

    My goal is to fight when I turn 18, and be the best fighter I possibly can. But still, I'll admit that I do the occasional preacher curl and skullcrusher. There's nothing wrong with it. I don't do tons of sets like bodybuilders, and I still try to make the majority of my lifts as function-oriented as possible.

    Also, be careful about how frequently you're lifting, and how much rest you're getting. Doing chest Monday and back Tuesday may allow your chest and back to rest, but your kidneys are still doing the same amount of work. Your body doesn't really care what area it has to repair; your organs still have to do the work.

    Good luck with your program!
     
  11. FATKID

    FATKID Green Belt

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    Considering my PR's are higher than 99% of the people on this board, I'd say I know how to lift. My technique and routines are, admittedly, not the most effective, but I see consistent gains as I posted above. I was looking for thoughtful advice and comparisons, not condescension. My goal is to be as strong as I can and perform to my potential. Nothing more and certainly nothing less.
     
  12. Barut

    Barut Banned Banned

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    Dude, that's just the way Urban is. His lifting gives him shitty results, but that doesn't stop him from screaming at strong people about being pussies.
     
  13. FATKID

    FATKID Green Belt

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    Thoughtful post.

    Yeah, most of my PR's are damn good, I'm just not above asking advice. I certainly don't want to do any useless sweating if you know what I mean.
     
  14. Ted-P

    Ted-P Brown Belt

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    Just because you are stronger than alot of people doesn't mean shit. You could just naturally be stronger than everyone else here.

    So why not try a new routine out. I gave the strength and power routine a try opposed to a bodybuilding and it sure is more effective. I never went back.
     
  15. Ted-P

    Ted-P Brown Belt

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    Damn no lowerbdy workout?

    And what was your PR?
     
  16. Ted-P

    Ted-P Brown Belt

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    My Fucking Keyboard Blows>
     
  17. FATKID

    FATKID Green Belt

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    I posted this in hopes of getting advice. Instead my routine is JUST being insulted. Fine, insult it. I could care less. Just add some input. My way produces gains. But, there is ALWAYS a better way. That is the crux of my inquiry: the better way. I hope my initial post didn't come across as closeminded. To the contrary, the post was meant to question my current way of doing things.

    Btw, I would appreciate any routine advice you or anybody could give me. I am very open to new ideas...
     
  18. FATKID

    FATKID Green Belt

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    I've come here for nothing less than advice. Thoughtful post. I lift Mon-Fri. Is that, in fact, too much? I've done it for years and feel fine, but then again, it's hard to tell what you doing to your insides. I'm no expert, so if you'll be kind enough to back up you claim I would appreciate it.
     
  19. FATKID

    FATKID Green Belt

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    Problems? :D
     
  20. Ted-P

    Ted-P Brown Belt

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    Don't be so................ I don't the word........... sissy-like?

    Don't get all pissy because people gave honest opinions on your workout routine. Your routine does suck ass in my opinion, but its not like we arent giving you any advice or something.

    People have been giving you advices here right now, but it seems like you are only picking out the insults.

    My advice? If you are trying to seek for strength and power, I would just create a new workout.

    Weird thing is my old workout kind looks like yours and I just threw it away and read the stickies.
     

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