Overrated movie you've ever seen?

[MacDuffle]

That's ignoring of course the effect of a film maker working with someone adapting the script and obviously the input made in casting/filimg.editing.

book report compared to storyboarding your own film's plot arc

at the point of adaptation you blur the lines between the structure of the original narrative and what the adaptation takes credit for

you deny your audience the certainty in knowing that what took place in the film was the conscious effort of the filmaker and not simply featured because of the source material

would Park Chan Wook have added the incest twist in Oldboy? You'll never know if that's his style, because it's part of the source material

Meanwhile Sympathy For Mr Vengeance gives you a full-blown testament to his decisions as a storyteller. Every last one. What you learn about the narrator from their own design compared to an adaptation is not not even close

 

[DC23]

The Shining. 1/10.

 

[moreorless87]

book report compared to storyboarding your own film's plot arc

at the point of adaptation you blur the lines between the structure of the original narrative and what the adaptation takes credit for

you deny your audience the certainty in knowing that what took place in the film was the conscious effort of the filmaker and not simply featured because of the source material

would Park Chan Wook have added the incest twist in Oldboy? You'll never know if that's his style, because it's part of the source material

....meanwhile Sympathy For Mr Vengeance gives you a full-blown testament to his decisions as a storyteller. Every last one. What you learn about the narrator from their own design compared to an adaptation is not not even close

If your audience has much knowledge of cinema they will surely understand that a very large amount of what gives Kubricks films their quality is not just off of the page, unless there was an epilog Burgess wrote to Clockwork Orange in which he went off potential choices in adaptation, cinematography and acting performance that I'v never seen.

 

[MacDuffle]

The Shining. 1/10.

hesplain

I have my own criticisms of Kubrick films but The Shining largely escapes the typical ones

Did you find the "built on haunted ground" mechanism too familiar? Something else bother ye?

 

[MacDuffle]

If your audience has much knowledge of cinema they will surely understand that a very large amount of what gives Kubricks films their quality is not just off of the page, unless there was an epilog Burgess wrote to Clockwork Orange in which he went off potential choices in adaptation, cinematography and acting performance that I'v never seen.

Nobody's knocking Kubrick's cinematography so I'd dismount that angle before you get too offended

What I challenge fans to prove is what aspect of Kubrick's films were truly his own, story structure-wise. Those decisions were made absolutely, but getting to isolate their origin to Kubrick becomes far more difficult with adaptations

Can you confidently say that the evolution of man sequence in 2001: A Space Odyssey was Kubrick's philosophy of man's evolution? What about the machine rebelling against its masters? Is that Kubrick or is it a tried-and-true staple of the Golden Age of Science Fiction and short story?

Would Kubrick have killed Jack off in The Shining if it wasn't necessitated by the original work?

Do you really think he wanted Jack's Evil to be punished?

 

[DC23]

hesplain

I have my own criticisms of Kubrick films but The Shining largely escapes the typical ones

Did you find the "built on haunted ground" mechanism too familiar? Something else bother ye?

Just found it boring. Not scary. Overhyped.

Found myself laughing at most of the "scary" parts.

 

[MacDuffle]

because it's extremely worth noting that young Kubrick students believe he:

1. Invented Dystopian youth narratives culminating in Institutionalization (Clockwork Orange)
2. Invented Dystopian space narratives culminating in machines rejecting their masters (2001: A Space Odyssey)
3. Invented Dystopian war narratives with a dark sense of humor culminating in mental and emotional breaks (Full Metal Jacket)

none of which come anywhere close to the history of storytelling, something which has very real, very accessible origin points in the history of film and especially international cinema

 

[MacDuffle]

Hell, some kids that never took one hard look at the history of the horror genre in their life try claiming Kubrick invented "haunted burial ground" horror with The Shining



Meanwhile I'm too busy jizzing everywhere at his long-take aerial tracking shots in a pre-drone/robotics helicopter era and his ability to soften fluorescent lighting without color correction or physical gels

But narrative-wise, his stories didn't break the mold wide open

even in cinematography "firsts" Clockwork Orange wasn't the first film to rape someone in long-take or forward-track a car, no matter what his creepy gross fanboys might try telling you

 

[AgentSmecker]

 

[MacDuffle]

Memento is the only crack in that armor I would argue

 

[MacDuffle]

If you can name amnesia-based plots in film that preceded Nolan's version, let alone one that "did it better" in the genre go right ahead I don't mind in the slightest...

Spoiler: films

The answer is Spellbound (1945 Hitchcock) - Overboard (1987 Marshall) - Total Recall (1990 Verhoeven) none of which remotely resemble the contemporary setting or closing twist of Memento

 

[Alphaboy]

city of god was like chinese food 30min later

Go to hell

 

[moreorless87]

Nobody's knocking Kubrick's cinematography so I'd dismount that angle before you get too offended

What I challenge fans to prove is what aspect of Kubrick's films were truly his own, story structure-wise. Those decisions were made absolutely, but getting to isolate their origin to Kubrick becomes far more difficult with adaptations

Can you confidently say that the evolution of man sequence in 2001: A Space Odyssey was Kubrick's philosophy of man's evolution? What about the machine rebelling against its masters? Is that Kubrick or is it a tried-and-true staple of the Golden Age of Science Fiction and short story?

Would Kubrick have killed Jack off in The Shining if it wasn't necessitated by the original work?

Do you really think he wanted Jack's Evil to be punished?

I think referring to his films as a "book report" is very clearly being critical of the importance of his work as a director.

Honestly Kubrick seems a strange target for this kind of criticism to me, directors working with existing material and other writers makes up a pretty high percentage of cinema and Kubrick is not someone who's reputation is strongly based on the overall narrative or indeed the dialog of his films, its always been focused mostly on his direction.

Someone like Scorsese would seem like a more obvious target to me, not that I'd go along with it even then but I do think more of the praise for his work is linked to the writing and he wasn't making films that were as well known to be based on the another persons writing as Kubrick with 2001, Clockwork Orange and The Shinning all being widely known novels.

 

[cottagecheesefan]

Donnie Dark and Deadpool, as mentioned.

Wes Anderson movies - movies with a bunch of unrealistic characters with no real plot. Made for people who like to wrongly self-diagnose themselves, and over analyze other people, and do nothing productive with their lives, just like the characters in the movies.

The Martian with Matt Damon. - "Hi, I am Matt Damon, derp" Watch me Matt Damon by myself for 2 hours.

Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas - watched it once sober and once on shrooms. Didn't like it either time.

UP - depressing. I actually don't even mind the depressing part, since Wall-E and other movies of theirs have depressing aspects. I thought the characters were bland and there were only 3 of them... one being a non-talking bird. So there was not enough to distract and take away from the very depressing aspects of the film.

Any Jurassic Park since the first one. Even the newest reboot with Pratt was awful. It had some decent concepts, but the redhead woman can NOT act, and most of the plot elements were just a combination of the original JP and The Lost World.

The English Patient was one of the worst movies I’ve ever seen.

It is awesome that Mr. Peterman co-hosts the Westminster Kennel Club dog show. He is a true renaissance man.

 

[moreorless87]

Wes Anderson movies - movies with a bunch of unrealistic characters with no real plot. Made for people who like to wrongly self-diagnose themselves, and over analyze other people, and do nothing productive with their lives, just like the characters in the movies..

Yeah I would partly agree, I mean I did enjoy his early work but I think post Rushmoore and Royal Tenenbaums he's been tredding water ala M. Night Shyamalan, using the same devices too often and to progressively less effect, Darjeeling Ltd was just boring IMHO I found Moonrise Kingdom unbearably twee.

It does seem like a common issue with "kooky" directors for me, Tim Burton maybe lasted a bit longer but has become an increasingly bland cliché of himself, Michel Gondry as well has I think dropped off a lot after Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. Seems like Spike Jonze is the only one to hold up with time(Jackass excluded) with Being John Malkovich, Adapatation, Where The Wild Things Are and Her.

 

[Starck]

Black Panther. He's an incredibly boring super hero, but even putting that aside, the movie sucked.

 

[osudude]

Snowpiercer, thought it was terrible. If it was trying to go for an allegorical story it failed and the surface story broke all suspension of disbelief.

Also Avatar. Not that it was bad, but it was a heavy-handed new agey retelling of Ferngully that somehow turned into a huge phenomenon. Meh.

 

[moreorless87]

Generally the praised cinema that tends to disappoint me most often is Oscar bait "true life" stuff, I say that as a liberal lefty type myself. Far too much of it is just weak cinema that depends on references to history to sell it.

Indeed I very rarely watch such cinema anymore for that reason.

 

[cottagecheesefan]

Yeah I would partly agree, I mean I did enjoy his early work but I think post Rushmoore and Royal Tenenbaums he's been tredding water ala M. Night Shyamalan, using the same devices too often and to progressively less effect, Darjeeling Ltd was just boring IMHO I found Moonrise Kingdom unbearably twee.

It does seem like a common issue with "kooky" directors for me, Tim Burton maybe lasted a bit longer but has become an increasingly bland cliché of himself, Michel Gondry as well has I think dropped off a lot after Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. Seems like Spike Jonze is the only one to hold up with time(Jackass excluded) with Being John Malkovich, Adapatation, Where The Wild Things Are and Her.

I guess I just don't like them in general. I didn't even like Rushmoore or Royal Tenebaums. I commented in another thread, that the movies are actually acted well. I just don't like the story and directing.

A movie like Little Miss Sunshine is another example of these kinds of movies. I know younger kids these days like to think that they have it the worst, that their families as so dysfunctional and that they related to these characters, but it just seems like hipster emo bullshit.

I generally like Tim Burton movies tho, because he has an extra visual element in his films usually and more going on with the plot. He is becoming a cliche of himself, and I really dislike movies like Sweeny Todd, Corpse Bride, and Charlie and the Chocolate factory because of it. That is why I did NOT see Dark Shadows. It is also why I don't really watch new Tarantino movies, unless I catch them on HBO or something. Same actors, doing the same shit every single time.

Anyways, I feel Wes Anderson also tries to have a certain visual aspect to his films, but it revolves more of quirky clothes, accessories, and props, where as Burton goes much more all out with his visuals, altering the set designs much more heavily. I never find Wes Anderson to hit the mark. He tries to be to subtle and quirky in his visuals and directing, just like his characters. Burton's films also have plots with a lot more of a macro feel, and it goes somewhere. Anderson's films as just a bunch of micro interactions, and the dialogue is poor because the characters are unrealistic.

 

[moreorless87]

I guess I just don't like them in general. I didn't even like Rushmoore or Royal Tenebaums. I commented in another thread, that the movies are actually acted well. I just don't like the story and directing.

A movie like Little Miss Sunshine is another example of these kinds of movies. I know younger kids these days like to think that they have it the worst, that their families as so dysfunctional and that they related to these characters, but it just seems like hipster emo bullshit.

I generally like Tim Burton movies tho, because he has an extra visual element in his films usually and more going on with the plot. He is becoming a cliche of himself, and I really dislike movies like Sweeny Todd, Corpse Bride, and Charlie and the Chocolate factory because of it. That is why I did NOT see Dark Shadows. It is also why I don't really watch new Tarantino movies, unless I catch them on HBO or something. Same actors, doing the same shit every single time.

Anyways, I feel Wes Anderson also tries to have a certain visual aspect to his films, but it revolves more of quirky clothes, accessories, and props, where as Burton goes much more all out with his visuals, altering the set designs much more heavily. I never find Wes Anderson to hit the mark. He tries to be to subtle and quirky in his visuals and directing, just like his characters. Burton's films also have plots with a lot more of a macro feel, and it goes somewhere. Anderson's films as just a bunch of micro interactions, and the dialogue is poor because the characters are unrealistic.

There is I think definitely an element of self obsession to a lot of "kook" cinema, why I prefer stuff like Her or Eternal Sunshine that actually looks to challenge the typical "wistful creative middle class protagonist" a little more rather than just letting him exist in his own little bubble of kookiness.