Ongoing Team Lloyd Irvin Scandal - Part 6

[Deleted member 429137]

Moral and legal problems aside on thing that can't be argued is that LI had champions coming out of his team and I wonder what separated his teams training from the rest of the competition. Would anyone with some insight about the academy care to elaborate on what allowed his fighters to improve so quickly?

I thought he cherry picked fighters from other academies and never developed a fighter himself?

Anyways, the thing that separated his guys from other guys (aside from the rapey stuff) was a set-up that housed them for free and allowed them to train all day every day. Being able to train with the dedication of a pro makes a huge difference.

 

[AcesUp22]

I don't have an objection to the guy earning a living, because everyone needs to eat. But ideally he'd be fixing cars or washing windows or doing something that doesn't put him in a position of authority over women while allowing him to train in an art that will make him any more dangerous than it already is.

What's making him dangerous in many people's eyes is the position he's taking: that he's done nothing wrong, that it's the victim's fault, that he's the victim of unjust persecution, etc. Rationalizing and justifying his negative behavior, making up far-fetched explanations for other people's very predictable responses to it, and interpreting those negative responses as personal attacks on him instead of predictable negative responses to his own negative behavior, pretty much guarantees more of the same will occur the second he gives himself permission.

Nail. On. The. Head.

 

[Calibur]

http://www.insidebjj.com/2011/07/12/interview-with-lloyd-irvin/:


Inside BJJ
"If you could only pick one thing that an individual could start today that would improve their Jiu-Jitsu what would it be?"

Lloyd Irvin
"Drilling of transitions. I believe that is the most important aspect of making rapid improvements in Jiu-Jitsu. If you understand what all of the most important transitions are in Jiu-Jitsu and you focus on drilling them you

 

[lechien]

He found a way to support and train students that competes for him at a semi pro or pro level.

His team does well in a sport that is mostly full of amateurs at the lower belts.

 

[Jinzumkei]

I dont think there is a secret. Hard training, lots and lots of drilling. If you dont come from a successful school but you think school drills hard, go to a successful competition school you'll probably be buried by the amount of drills they do.

 

[Calibur]

I dont think there is a secret. Hard training, lots and lots of drilling. If you dont come from a successful school but you think school drills hard, go to a successful competition school you'll probably be buried by the amount of drills they do.

But TLI drills were specific.

 

[Sara]

I don't understand how you can be caught on video committing a crime, but be found not guilty. Can someone give me more information about the whole team Lloyd Irvin situation?

 

[Calibur]

What's making him dangerous in many people's eyes is the position he's taking: that he's done nothing wrong, that it's the victim's fault, that he's the victim of unjust persecution, etc. Rationalizing and justifying his negative behavior, making up far-fetched explanations for other people's very predictable responses to it, and interpreting those negative responses as personal attacks on him instead of predictable negative responses to his own negative behavior, pretty much guarantees more of the same will occur the second he gives himself permission.

That's what bothers me.

They justify things in their mind and when they get arrested they truly believe they did nothing wrong.

After hearing Nick and Matteo talk on the issue and how they vehemently believe they did nothing wrong I understand the truth.

They're not gonna stop. The only thing this ideal has taught them was the ramifications of getting caught.

They hate the victim. What happens if they do this again and in a panic they decide to go further to cover their tracks?

These kids are a PROBLEM.

 

[ElKarlo]

That's what bothers me.

They justify things in their mind and when they get arrested they truly believe they did nothing wrong.

After hearing Nick and Matteo talk on the issue and how they vehemently believe they did nothing wrong I understand the truth.

They're not gonna stop. The only thing this ideal has taught them was the ramifications of getting caught.

They hate the victim. What happens if they do this again and in a panic they decide to go further to cover their tracks?

These kids are a PROBLEM.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if they did kill a victim in the future. And as you said, they're mad at vetting caught. As well as mad at the victim. Which is also very disturbing. They have the markings or serial rapists in them

 

[Os3y3ris]

He never bought the hype or drank the kool aid. He poured plenty of it, but you never saw hero worship coming from him or his crew. They were mentally prepared to win. Even his blue belts truly believed they could hang with anyone on the mats, and thus they could.

 

[Monoman]

I hope everyone reads this post very carefully.

I did. Lloyd Irvin was quite often spot on but at the same time self-incriminating. He took his own advice in good ways and bad ways. However, nothing bad is ever his fault even though he claims as a coach he should be 100% responsible. That is a serious character flaw and very cult like.

 

[RAWilliams]

That's what bothers me.

They justify things in their mind and when they get arrested they truly believe they did nothing wrong.

After hearing Nick and Matteo talk on the issue and how they vehemently believe they did nothing wrong I understand the truth.

They're not gonna stop. The only thing this ideal has taught them was the ramifications of getting caught.

They hate the victim. What happens if they do this again and in a panic they decide to go further to cover their tracks?

These kids are a PROBLEM.

Thing is, they're not the only ones justifying and rationalizing. They've each got a team of enablers making excuses for them, paying for legal help, attacking people who criticize what happened, minimizing the actual damage to the victim, and acting as though the perpetrators "did nothing wrong". Each man's enabler team includes at least one parent who you'd think ought to know better. I'd venture a guess that the extreme enabing has been going on for years. Enough years in an environment where predatory behavior is normalized and excused can probably warp anyone.

While I understand hiring a professional excuse-maker in the form of a defense attorney (who is, after all, paid to inspire reasonable doubt), it's almost as though the enabler teams don't understand that the excuse is a legal fiction. Just as nobody was really expected to believe the "Twinkie" defense that junk food binges could cause violent or illegal behavior, nobody's expected to actually believes that "please stop" was a request to turn off the video camera but continue with a violent gang rape in a public area.

 

[BeRGLeZ]

That "Justice for Matt" page is encouraging 5 star reviews for Gotham Gym that now employs Matthew Maldonado. This is probably in response to the 1 star reviews that are coming in since it became news they employ him.

Here's Hillary William's review:



https://www.facebook.com/pages/Gotham-Gym/155967901111270

WOW

That is completely absurd!!
He is campaigning to have himself esteemed as a freed hero and waging war on Georgette?
That's just disgusting.
These guys are pathetic scum.

 

[Newverse]

The things that I am reading, are being written as if they have a strong foundation, and are factual. I would like to point out a few details, because I think a story like this will always elicit sympathy, and induce anger. Here are some things, that I truly believe:

You are innocent until proven guilty. If you are not proven guilty, especially after suffering the scrutiny of a full blown trial, then people in a much better position than anyone, else have deemed you not guilty.

Being Accused should never condemn a person, no matter what the accusation is. This is the entire bases, and purpose of a legal system.

As far as characters go, I can only speak for Mateo, because I never met Nick, but this is not a professional athlete with millions of dollars to pay his way out of a case. Can we consider how bad and stacked against him this would be going in to trial, even if he was sure of his innocence? He is a Puerto Rican kid from Brooklyn, who does not come from money, and is accused of raping someone in a parking garage on video. He did not find some loophole or technicality, did not pay his way out, did not have political affiliation or any influence at all. He was a kid from out of state, NY at that, and it sounded really bad. He spent close to a year in prison, and has to deal with the stigma of people comndeming him despite proving his innocence under total scrutiny. Now, this same kid is trying to get some of his life back, again, does not come from money, needs to work, is not guilty of rape, and has suffered enough. He has a lot to offer, and has always taught very good children, women, adult sport and self defense class. It would be a shame to lose the opportunity to train with him, if anyone ever has the chance. Please keep judgments until you meet and know him.

 

[Deleted member 429137]

The things that I am reading, are being written as if they have a strong foundation, and are factual. I would like to point out a few details, because I think a story like this will always elicit sympathy, and induce anger. Here are some things, that I truly believe:

You are innocent until proven guilty. If you are not proven guilty, especially after suffering the scrutiny of a full blown trial, then people in a much better position than anyone, else have deemed you not guilty.

Being Accused should never condemn a person, no matter what the accusation is. This is the entire bases, and purpose of a legal system.

Bull fucking shit. The things about that night that they ADMITTED to are enough to condemn the POS.

 

[Irenaeus]

Being Accused should never condemn a person, no matter what the accusation is. This is the entire bases, and purpose of a legal system.

Being accused should never condemn a person in the legal sense, but people make - and need to make - judgement calls on others all the time, and we aren't bound by reasonable doubt, nor should we be, because our personal judgements doesn't have legal implications, nor does it cause governmental punitive measures to be taken.

We aren't bound to adhere socially to a criminal sentence. We can doubt the innocence of someone not convicted in the same manner we can doubt the guilt of someone in prison.

 

[LaBrian]

The things that I am reading, are being written as if they have a strong foundation, and are factual. I would like to point out a few details, because I think a story like this will always elicit sympathy, and induce anger. Here are some things, that I truly believe:

You are innocent until proven guilty. If you are not proven guilty, especially after suffering the scrutiny of a full blown trial, then people in a much better position than anyone, else have deemed you not guilty.

Being Accused should never condemn a person, no matter what the accusation is. This is the entire bases, and purpose of a legal system.

As far as characters go, I can only speak for Mateo, because I never met Nick, but this is not a professional athlete with millions of dollars to pay his way out of a case. Can we consider how bad and stacked against him this would be going in to trial, even if he was sure of his innocence? He is a Puerto Rican kid from Brooklyn, who does not come from money, and is accused of raping someone in a parking garage on video. He did not find some loophole or technicality, did not pay his way out, did not have political affiliation or any influence at all. He was a kid from out of state, NY at that, and it sounded really bad. He spent close to a year in prison, and has to deal with the stigma of people comndeming him despite proving his innocence under total scrutiny. Now, this same kid is trying to get some of his life back, again, does not come from money, needs to work, is not guilty of rape, and has suffered enough. He has a lot to offer, and has always taught very good children, women, adult sport and self defense class. It would be a shame to lose the opportunity to train with him, if anyone ever has the chance. Please keep judgments until you meet and know him.

I can respect that you want to stand up for your friend. Consider this though, you're buddy did something awful. He had sex with a woman in a public place when she didn't want to. There is a recording of that sex act, that he made, where she says please stop and he doesn't stop, or stop his friend. Then him and his buddy left her there on the cold concrete, half naked, drunk and disoriented from the blows to the head she received while they were having sex with her and her head hit the concrete.

If you really want to help your friend, tell him that what he did is not ok, and while he may have been lucky enough to not go to prison, he's not an "innocent", and that he bears responsibility for his actions. Deep down he knows what he did was wrong, thats why he's fighting so hard to keep people from finding out about it. People are not going to forget.

He can get help, and make a better life for himself, but that isn't going to happen as long as he's insisting he did nothing wrong and he has a whole legion of enablers like you. Keep enabling him and he's likely to do it again, maybe this time he'll kill the victim so there won't be a survivor to testify.

 

[oyaji poi]

The things that I am reading, are being written as if they have a strong foundation, and are factual. I would like to point out a few details, because I think a story like this will always elicit sympathy, and induce anger. Here are some things, that I truly believe:

You are innocent until proven guilty. If you are not proven guilty, especially after suffering the scrutiny of a full blown trial, then people in a much better position than anyone, else have deemed you not guilty.

Being Accused should never condemn a person, no matter what the accusation is. This is the entire bases, and purpose of a legal system.

As far as characters go, I can only speak for Mateo, because I never met Nick, but this is not a professional athlete with millions of dollars to pay his way out of a case. Can we consider how bad and stacked against him this would be going in to trial, even if he was sure of his innocence? He is a Puerto Rican kid from Brooklyn, who does not come from money, and is accused of raping someone in a parking garage on video. He did not find some loophole or technicality, did not pay his way out, did not have political affiliation or any influence at all. He was a kid from out of state, NY at that, and it sounded really bad. He spent close to a year in prison, and has to deal with the stigma of people comndeming him despite proving his innocence under total scrutiny. Now, this same kid is trying to get some of his life back, again, does not come from money, needs to work, is not guilty of rape, and has suffered enough. He has a lot to offer, and has always taught very good children, women, adult sport and self defense class. It would be a shame to lose the opportunity to train with him, if anyone ever has the chance. Please keep judgments until you meet and know him.

You don't understand the difference between legal and moral. Not guilty does not mean innocent of all wrong doing, it means the legal standard was not meet even if the moral implications of the act are horrendous.



Let me get your mother fall down drunk so my buddy and I can tag team her as she passes out in a sub-freezing garage. We'll slam her head against the ground a few times, when she asks us to stop we'll keep going, finish in her mouth and leave her on the ground, naked to either freeze to death or be found by a vagrant.

My lawyer will argue that she wanted it. The law will say that is enough.


Therefore, you and me can still be friends, right? You'll help me get my life back together right?

 

[Newverse]

I do understand the difference between moral and legal. They are often two different conversations, I agree. I also understand how reading about this case, especially the details of the video, can elicit strong emotions. I am not blaming anyone for how they interpret the information that has been provided. I am simply asking people to be fair, in a case where being fair is so counter-intuitive. Of course people are more likely to immediately sympathaize with the woman in a case that sounds as horrendous as this. However, there was a really long trial, a group of people, all of whom where privy to much more than transcripts of a video, decided he was not guilty. I think it would be a mistake to assume that we are in a position to judge someone, especially given that all the publicity surrounding it was against Mateo, so we get half the story when people are always ready to condemn someone in his situation.

As for being an enabler, I disagree. I am just speaking my opinion, as we all are. You are talking about a legion of enablers? That sounds so weird to me, he has people that know him personally, that can probably speak better about his character than you, who clearly do not know him. To say something like "he may end up killing the victim" is an extreme and unfair judgement to make about someone whom you only know about from reading negative press. Something like this is bound to invite anger, I just hope if people really care enough, they will get the full story, maybe understand how a poor spanish kid from brooklyn who is accused of rape, on camera, out of state, can prove he is not guilty OF ANY CHARGES, with no political affiliation, loopholes, ect. There was a long trail, everything was scrutinized. I am not saying to love him or what happened; but it worries me to see how self righteous people are when talking about someone else's life with half a story and their minds already made up.

 

[LaBrian]

I do understand the difference between moral and legal. They are often two different conversations, I agree. I also understand how reading about this case, especially the details of the video, can elicit strong emotions. I am not blaming anyone for how they interpret the information that has been provided. I am simply asking people to be fair, in a case where being fair is so counter-intuitive. Of course people are more likely to immediately sympathaize with the woman in a case that sounds as horrendous as this. However, there was a really long trial, a group of people, all of whom where privy to much more than transcripts of a video, decided he was not guilty. I think it would be a mistake to assume that we are in a position to judge someone, especially given that all the publicity surrounding it was against Mateo, so we get half the story when people are always ready to condemn someone in his situation.

As for being an enabler, I disagree. I am just speaking my opinion, as we all are. You are talking about a legion of enablers? That sounds so weird to me, he has people that know him personally, that can probably speak better about his character than you, who clearly do not know him. To say something like "he may end up killing the victim" is an extreme and unfair judgement to make about someone whom you only know about from reading negative press. Something like this is bound to invite anger, I just hope if people really care enough, they will get the full story, maybe understand how a poor spanish kid from brooklyn who is accused of rape, on camera, out of state, can prove he is not guilty OF ANY CHARGES, with no political affiliation, loopholes, ect. There was a long trail, everything was scrutinized. I am not saying to love him or what happened; but it worries me to see how self righteous people are when talking about someone else's life with half a story and their minds already made up.

You're enabling him by agreeing with the warped notion that a not guilty verdict means he did nothing wrong. The logical gulf between the 2 is huge. Stop painting him as the victim. No one brought him to the garage because he was too drunk to get home by himself. He went there and left under his own power. He filmed the events. On that video the survivor is heard saying "No, Please Stop". His highly paid defense Lawyer convinced a Jury that there was reasonable doubt, that she could have meant No, please stop filming it. Anyone with a modicum of impartiality can see that, while the state may have failed to prove its case beyond the incredibly high barrier of reasonable doubt, Matt definitely acted like a scumbag here.

You can keep feeding into your friend's bullshit all you want, but let me ask you 2 questions. Would you let him drive your drunk sister home from a party? If Matt did nothing wrong, why is he, or someone close to him mounting a campaign to keep people from finding out about what he did? (https://www.facebook.com/justice4matt)