Ongoing Team Lloyd Irvin Scandal - Part 6

People probably will feel uncomfortable at this suggestion but it was probably at least partly due to the authority he commanded. He had an environment where no one questioned a single action of his, all they had to do was do what they were told. This produces a highly efficient machine of training if everyone is absolutely compliant. He just decided to take advantage of it.

I mean, did you see what happened when Chris Ulbright was late to weight lifting one time in a year of training? This produces hyper-compliant athletes and you can be confident they will follow your instructions. Like a computer program. Those things are pretty efficient because the only thing they do is what you tell them. They don't pause at all between executing commands.

Implies there's an inherent risk to building a successful team like that, because that kind of power corrupts people.
 
Something else was the culture he instilled there which was summed up in the quote, "Hard work will always beat talent when talent refuses to work hard." This part is much more positive. If truly appreciated by the athletes, they will realize that the only constraint on their success that they can push away is their effort. To be the best they can be they have to try the hardest they can. And they have to be able to ignore any other sources of constraint.

This really isn't that new. My football coaches harped on this all the time. It's why any successful sports organization refuses to allow you to externalize fault, or "make excuses." Guy was really strong? Tough. You're probably about as strong as Caio Terra, would he have done better? Well, that means you could do something better. Just focus on that. It's the only thing you have control over.
 
People probably will feel uncomfortable at this suggestion but it was probably at least partly due to the authority he commanded. He had an environment where no one questioned a single action of his, all they had to do was do what they were told. This produces a highly efficient machine of training if everyone is absolutely compliant. He just decided to take advantage of it.

I mean, did you see what happened when Chris Ulbright was late to weight lifting one time in a year of training? This produces hyper-compliant athletes and you can be confident they will follow your instructions. Like a computer program. Those things are pretty efficient because the only thing they do is what you tell them. They don't pause at all between executing commands.

Implies there's an inherent risk to building a successful team like that, because that kind of power corrupts people.

I guess that leaves the question of whether or not someone could accomplish the same thing without veering into abuse.
 
That makes a lot of sense, do you happen to have the source?

I read it FOREVER ago in a magazine, bruh, like all I know is that I was in Chemistry in high school, so this was definitely a while ago haha
 
I guess that leaves the question of whether or not someone could accomplish the same thing without veering into abuse.

Sure they can. High level sports coaches probably command a similar level of authority. They are just in a much broader institutional framework which would make something like that hard to hide. Bobby Knight would probably have been quickly found out if he had the cheerleaders shaving his face.

Also, you know, there's integrity on the behalf of the person in charge.
 
Sure they can. High level sports coaches probably command a similar level of authority. They are just in a much broader institutional framework which would make something like that hard to hide. Bobby Knight would probably have been quickly found out if he had the cheerleaders shaving his face.

Also, you know, there's integrity on the behalf of the person in charge.

Penn State
 
People already touched on the training environment. Not so much that LI was actively leading each training session. In his interview with TWIBJJ Keenan mentioned that LI was often absent as he was very busy - presumably with his pyramid schemes and [deleted] people's [deleted] in the [deleted]. And there was another major component to the perception of TLI: marketing.

TLI was poaching already talented lower belts in addition to whatever homegrown team he had, then redefining success through unrelenting marketing to focus on their accomplishments. Many teams had equal success at blue-brown but Lloyd was able to spin it so people payed these kids the same attention that normally would have been reserved for black belts.
 
hard intense training driven by the fear of repercussions of not working up to LI's expectations.
 
There was one really interesting thing Lloyd Irvin did that, in my opinion, was really ahead of its time. It's worth keeping in mind for future use.

He had a very well thought out in-house sponsorship package in which select athletes were basically on scholarship. The "Medal Chasers" lived in what amounts to a fighter house or a small version of a gladiator training school from ancient Rome. They trained full-time, and had their basic living and competition expenses paid. It was a little bit like a full-ride football scholarship, without all those pesky school classes. In many ways, they lived like full-time professional athletes without first having attained what many people consider to be the key credential in sport BJJ, which is the black belt.

There appears to have been an attempt to tailor the Medal Chaser experience to the individual athlete's needs, resources, and skills. Some of the Medal Chasers might have had instruction or paid work opportunities through the main school, and others might have received only a partial scholarship. Overall, though, it was a systematic effort to invest in athletes at the key point in their career when they needed material support the most. They attended more tournaments, they got more turns at bat (so to speak), and they started racking up wins.

Was the program perfect? No. There were definitely abuses, some of the things that went on in the fighter house were pretty sketchy, and people rightly criticize some of the cultural "3%" elitism that developed. But even with the down sides, there was so much about the Medal Chaser program that was good and unique.

Plenty of parents invest in their own son or daughter's career, and many instructors have a special individual student they mentor, but for an instructor to proactively recruit and invest in athletes before they become high level competitors was new to BJJ. It's been done in other sports (university athletics come to mind), but it's seldom done in private industry, especially in a sport that doesn't attract a lot of money. Big expense, big risk, small short-term payoff.

Speaking of money, it appears that there was some kind of organized corporate sponsorship activity by which a sponsor such as Ronin could help and support an entire team of Medal Chasers, instead of just a few athletes. This helped future professional athletes build their brand and gain public recognition. Most other athletes have to fight their way to brown or black belt before being attractive to corporate sponsors, but the Medal Chasers had an opportunity to develop a relationship and history with some of those companies prior to reaching the highest level of competition. So besides just training and going to tournaments, Medal Chasers got at least some career development and career planning for at least a few lucky athletes. Some academies do have a system for grooming people who plan to make a full-time living in the sport, but only Lloyd Irvin put together a comprehensive system for doing it. The athletes he supported, in many cases, received a life-changing opportunity that enabled them to have an outstanding launch to their professional careers. Many people who benefited from the support rightly feel a strong bond of loyalty and gratitude toward the person who made it happen.

With all this support, and competent instruction, and a high concentration of good training partners, an average athlete would get good, fast, and a good athlete would become phenomenal.

The fact that a system like this was home-grown in the USA, and not something imported from Brazil, was very exciting to a lot of Americans. Everyone wanted to see a home-grown team from outside Brazil produce large numbers of champions that could dominate at the world level. For a while, it looked like the plan was starting to work. In another decade or so, I think LI would have been the dominant global team.

It's very sad that an idea this good was poisoned by the unpopular business practices of the owner, and by the severely immature and unethical behavior of a few of the Medal Chasers.
 
IF I remember correctly, the hand-picked student "medal chasers" were given a house to live in so they could train full time and not have to support themselves. The ability to train full time I am sure gave those students a huge advantage.
 
Extremely talented coach. People will say that he "poached" competitors,but he had far more homegrown competitors than most of the top schools. Schools like ATOS,AOJ,Caio Terra competitors are close to 100% successful guys from other schools. No diss to them at all.
Lloyd was/is really innovative. His top competitors don't just randomly compete but have competition schedules in which they peak for. He was also one of the first I've seen/heard that really pushed drilling.He was very big on drilling small details for muscle memory.This was completely contrary to most schools where there was the warm up,learn two techniques, then roll. He was really big on his competitors actually MASTERING a technique or 2 to own as their techniques instead of broadly learning a ton of techniques. A witnessed guys improving at phenomenal rates from when they started at Lloyd's and after a few months. Keenan is a good example.
 
IF I remember correctly, the hand-picked student "medal chasers" were given a house to live in so they could train full time and not have to support themselves. The ability to train full time I am sure gave those students a huge advantage.

Every competitive school has quite a few full time BJJ competitors at all belts. They might have "jobs" like being students,personal trainers,rich parents or part time jobs that enable them to train full time.
 
A competent, charismatic, extorverted instructor who has solid credentials and who puts his or her heart into the school will almost always create a cult of personality just by being himself as the school becomes bigger and more successful. Both the good and the bad traits of the person calling the shots get magnified. That's not dangerous, unless the person being magnified that way is also a dangerous person.
 
A competent, charismatic, extorverted instructor who has solid credentials and who puts his or her heart into the school will almost always create a cult of personality just by being himself as the school becomes bigger and more successful. Both the good and the bad traits of the person calling the shots get magnified. That's not dangerous, unless the person being magnified that way is also a dangerous person.

You don't think a position of power like that could corrupt an average person?
 
Every competitive school has quite a few full time BJJ competitors at all belts. They might have "jobs" like being students,personal trainers,rich parents or part time jobs that enable them to train full time.

Absolutely, yet that support is coming from outside the gym. There's seldom a planned, organized, career-centric strategy in place to deliberately develop full-time professional athletes.
 
I think he went to school on what a lot of the sucessful programs in Brazil were doing: people training as a profession and attracting top competitors from smaller/less competition orientated schools. Starting with Fowler and Hall and evolving into the medal chasers a sizable group was able to give a lot of attention to training bjj and the more skilled players came on board the deeper the talent pool got which would up everyone's game.

Beyond that, in interviews he talked about how he would narrowly focus students' games to optimize competition performance, so while in theory they maybe less well rounded, they were excellent at certain aspects.
Finally the cult mentality probably gave a lot of them unwavering confindence which doesn't hurt on the mat.
 
Same thing that makes Cicero Costa's academy so strong: tons of time drilling and sparring your competition A game. I don't get the impression that any of LI's guys spent any time working on anything they wouldn't use in competition. Add to that an environment which, whatever else it was, was super intense about competition success and full of people chasing medals to the exclusion of all else and you'll probably produce some beasts. I do get the impression that LI is pretty analytical and meticulous as a coach in terms of determining what works for various people and getting them to focus their games on that material.
 
You don't think a position of power like that could corrupt an average person?

Nah. Power doesn't corrupt. It amplifies what's already there. If a person has good impulse control, empathy, proactivity, a decent work ethic, and a desire to interact with others in a positive and fair way, it doesn't matter how much power you fire-hose onto them. Although they'll still make mistakes, they'll do what it takes to be good stewards of whatever they've got.

Generally, I find that most average human beings are already corrupt. The evil they commit tends to be petty and small-scale, but it's not due to any inherent goodness on their part, it's due to the lack of personal power and opportunity.
 
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