International Oligarchy is not just a Russian phenomenon. It exists right here in the USA.

[Jack V Savage]

Outside of 5 people on twatter I know of no one calling for the abortion of police. I also have no idea what "rupture every institution" means but the last time I checked no lefties were going after social security or Medicare and by euro standards even our liberal party is pretty rightwing

Last point is definitely not true. Our liberal party is pretty normal by European standards, somewhat to the left of a normal mainstream left party.

And the issue is that a lot of the left would rather see the far-right take power and wreck our courts, colleges, and gov't generally (including at least cutting SS/Medicare/Medicaid, if not abolishing them) than see then the less-crazy left take power and make changes that are improvements but not as drastic as what the nutter left claims to want.

 

[deviake]

Last point is definitely not true. Our liberal party is pretty normal by European standards, somewhat to the left of a normal mainstream left party.

And the issue is that a lot of the left would rather see the far-right take power and wreck our courts, colleges, and gov't generally (including at least cutting SS/Medicare/Medicaid, if not abolishing them) than see then the less-crazy left take power and make changes that are improvements but not as drastic as what the nutter left claims to want.

USPHC is a centrist position in every other first world country but I've Democratic politicians and pundits use right wing talking points about why we can't do it here. The ACA is also Romney Care, AKA a Heritage Foundation construct.

There's also other euro countries that have free college, no PIC to speak, far better infrastructure, paid time off by law, better leave for parents, etc so I cannot fathom what metric you're using but your statements seem broad sweeping, with zero basis in reality.

 

[Jack V Savage]

USPHC is a centrist position in every other first world country but I've Democratic politicians and pundits use right wing talking points about why we can't do it here. The ACA is also Romney Care, AKA a Heritage Foundation construct.

Most Democratic politicians want it (and note that the plans discussed on the 2020 campaign trail were extreme by the standards of other countries). The problem is that they don't have enough votes to get it. The difference is not our left; it's that the American right is united against it. Also that last point is false by a lot, and the fact that you make it illustrates the challenge that progressives have in America. In reality, they took an enormous risk, costing many legislators their careers, in order to pass progressive changes in policy. The right and insurance industry were incensed, but the left also opposed it. The result was a big improvement in our system, but the left doesn't celebrate it because factional battles are more important to them than making concrete improvements in people's lives.

There's also other euro countries that have free college, no PIC to speak, far better infrastructure, paid time off by law, better leave for parents, etc so I cannot fathom what metric you're using but your statements seem broad sweeping, with zero basis in reality.

Wrong on some of the details, but your bigger mistake is forgetting that Republicans exist and win elections (often with the help of the idiot left) and get to implement policies they support.

 

[deviake]

Most Democratic politicians want it (and note that the plans discussed on the 2020 campaign trail were extreme by the standards of other countries). The problem is that they don't have enough votes to get it. The difference is not our left; it's that the American right is united against it. Also that last point is false by a lot, and the fact that you make it illustrates the challenge that progressives have in America. In reality, they took an enormous risk, costing many legislators their careers, in order to pass progressive changes in policy. The right and insurance industry were incensed, but the left also opposed it. The result was a big improvement in our system, but the left doesn't celebrate it because factional battles are more important to them than making concrete improvements in people's lives.

Wrong on some of the details, but your bigger mistake is forgetting that Republicans exist and win elections (often with the help of the idiot left) and get to implement policies they support.

Lies. And the democrats for the most part don't run on this shit. UHC polls we'll even with Republicans. "But Republicans "

 

[Jack V Savage]

Lies. And the democrats for the most part don't run on this shit. UHC polls we'll even with Republicans. "But Republicans "

Everything I said was true. And what does that last point mean? Do you deny that Republicans exist? That they win elections? Do you think all countries have major rightist parties that oppose single payer or national health? Try not to just react angrily. Think about this.

 

[Yehudim]

Huh? That's not true at all.

That is your mind on opioids, mental illness, and a Portland, Oregon strain of leftism. Absolutely dramatic.

 

[Islam Imamate]

That is your mind on opioids, mental illness, and a Portland, Oregon strain of leftism. Absolutely dramatic.

Some of these types are even downwardly mobile, as in they actually are born into well off families and still fuck it up.

 

[filthybliss]

Outside of 5 people on twatter I know of no one calling for the abortion of police. I also have no idea what "rupture every institution" means but the last time I checked no lefties were going after social security or Medicare and by euro standards even our liberal party is pretty rightwing

You must not be very familiar with the DSA, the Green Party or the benchwarmer populists on here that don't vote because everyone is bad and bought by the "zionist" elite.

Abolition Working Group - Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)

Defund. Abolish. Create. The National Abolition Working Group was formed to create a collective orientation towards abolitionist organizing within DSA and to build meaningful relationships with external organizations committed to the struggle for liberation. We are both building our internal...

www.dsausa.org

USPHC is a centrist position in every other first world country but I've Democratic politicians and pundits use right wing talking points about why we can't do it here. The ACA is also Romney Care, AKA a Heritage Foundation construct.

There's also other euro countries that have free college, no PIC to speak, far better infrastructure, paid time off by law, better leave for parents, etc so I cannot fathom what metric you're using but your statements seem broad sweeping, with zero basis in reality.

Sure, we can play this game. They are leftists and far right lobotimized wackjobs like @ColemanwastheGOAT that use the same exact talking points about AIPAC and the Zionist boogeyman. Both argue for isolationism too.

 

[Yehudim]

Some of these types are even downwardly mobile, as in they actually are born into well off families and still fuck it up.

Stay away from drugs and retarded artists that believe they’ve reached some insight that everyone else hasn’t through the use of drugs

 

[filthybliss]

Stay away from drugs and retarded artists that believe they’ve reached some insight that everyone else hasn’t through the use of drugs

Leave Sam Harris out of this...

 

[deviake]

You must not be very familiar with the DSA, the Green Party or the benchwarmer populists on here that don't vote because everyone is bad and bought by the "zionist" elite.

Abolition Working Group - Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)

Defund. Abolish. Create. The National Abolition Working Group was formed to create a collective orientation towards abolitionist organizing within DSA and to build meaningful relationships with external organizations committed to the struggle for liberation. We are both building our internal...

www.dsausa.org

Sure, we can play this game. They are leftists and far right lobotimized wackjobs like @ColemanwastheGOAT that use the same exact talking points about AIPAC and the Zionist boogeyman. Both argue for isolationism too.

They've no power so no, I don't care about them.

I'm (and apparently whole countries?) a wackjob for saying every other country has healthcare and several have better public programs.

Brilliant

-this message brought to you by the republican party

 

[deviake]

Moving to the right has been working out well for the democrats

 

[Jack V Savage]

Moving to the right has been working out well for the democrats

Dems haven't moved to the right. Try to make your points without obviously wrong claims.

 

[Jack V Savage]

They've no power so no, I don't care about them.

I'm (and apparently whole countries?) a wackjob for saying every other country has healthcare and several have better public programs.

Brilliant

-this message brought to you by the republican party

You're a wackjob for believing that Republicans have no impact on policy.

 

[filthybliss]

They've no power so no, I don't care about them.

I'm (and apparently whole countries?) a wackjob for saying every other country has healthcare and several have better public programs.

Brilliant

-this message brought to you by the republican party

Are we doing this thing where you act obtuse and bad faith? I wasn't accusing you of being the type of leftist that blame AIPAC or whatever convenient lobby group/minority for everything. I was just pointing out how you can play the game of stringing isolated moments/statements from certain groups and lump them in as the same.

You've lately been off the rails. I literally agree with you on expansion of healthcare and social safety net too. I think the democrats need to prioritize that in their messaging to lionize voters as I have said to you before....

You're a wackjob for believing that Republicans have no impact on policy.

He's smarter than that...He's acting strange. I hope he doesn't jump into that doomerism, Cenk or Jimmy Dore spiral.

 

[Yehudim]

Dems haven't moved to the right. Try to make your points without obviously wrong claims.

Yeah but Jon Stewart said that Dem’s moved to the right and the evidence is in campaign ads where some Dem’s distanced themselves from previously divisive culture war issues.

Saying that you want violent criminals to go to prison, and that you actually don’t want unlimited illegal immigration is basically like wanting to abolish all forms of taxation and welfare.

 

[filthybliss]

Dems haven't moved to the right. Try to make your points without obviously wrong claims.

On somethings, they have like the border or taxes which is why I always laugh at the republicans that cry about how the democrats are too "far left" and "open border".

 

[deviake]

Are we doing this thing where you act obtuse and bad faith? I wasn't accusing you of being the type of leftist that blame AIPAC or whatever convenient lobby group/minority for everything. I was just pointing out how you can play the game of stringing isolated moments/statements from certain groups and lump them in as the same.

You've lately been off the rails. I literally agree with you on expansion of healthcare and social safety net too. I think the democrats need to prioritize that in their messaging to lionize voters as I have said to you before....


He's smarter than that...He's acting strange. I hope he doesn't jump into that doomerism, Cenk or Jimmy Dore spiral.

Off the rails? By saying we can, in fact, have nice things that poll well and that are standard in other countries? Chill dude.

Also, if you ever wonder why I stop engaging with Jack that post you responded to is a picture perfect example. No basis in reality. I've never said nor implied that and you've even liked my posts where I've said things clearly opposing that view.

That's why I fuck off with certain posters.

 

[DoctorTaco]

@Madmick

Just to be clear, what are the forum rules at this point regarding wishing death on people?

I thought they were pretty unambiguous but lately it seems like a lot of this kind of shit is getting posted and allowed to stay up.

I don't care if the rules have changed, but can we get an official update on what the new rules are so we know what we can and can't say?

 

[Jack V Savage]

On somethings, they have like the border or taxes which is why I always laugh at the republicans that cry about how the democrats are too "far left" and "open border".

I don't think they've moved to the right on taxes. At the federal level, they've made taxes very progressive, though the level is low. Other developed countries get a lot of funding from VATs, and those are flat. That's a major difference between the U.S. and other countries, and it's us being very far to the left. And I know you're comparing them to their own past, but they've consistently chipped away at taxes on lower incomes while fighting to increase taxes on higher incomes.

Not sure what you're referring to on the border or what timeframe. Obama was a strong-border guy. Biden came into office looking to strengthen border security (Day 1 action, though it didn’t pass).

I think a lot of the disagreements between self-proclaimed leftists and liberals don’t really map onto the left/right spectrum. The conservatism/radicalism spectrum might be closer to it, but even there, it's often more about tactics. Like, a lot of liberals want single payer, but figure more progress is made by raising Medicaid income limits and lowering Medicare age limits (both forms of gov't insurance). The ACA included a big Medicaid expansion, plus profit limits on insurers, plus new regs that increased access, plus created exchanges and provided subsidies for them. And that was (more than) paid for by higher taxes on rich individuals and corporations. But leftists call it "right-wing" (and trot out that dumb talking point that it's a Heritage plan) because it's not an immediate move to single payer.