RBR ***Official*** Sherdog Sanctioned Usyk vs. Fury 2: Reignited 12/21 11AM ET (DAZN)

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

It doesn't matter. Holyfield is far and away a better fighter than Usyk. And that's my point.

So by that logic, Cruiser, Super Middle, Super Light and Bantam were the best weight divisions in the mid 2010s? Because those were the only divisions that had Boxing World Super Series at the time. That logic doesn't hold up. There have been better divisions throughout history, where the "talent was there," that never had this tournament.

Yeah, I've been saying that he covers half of his body with his trunks for the longest. He doesn't wear his pants outside the ring that high. There's no way he has a lower body that long. And then the shot itself landed on the beltline, not below.

Yeah, that's great and all. But I'm not talking about what the fighters have accomplished. I'm talking about how good the fighters are themselves. Saying he beat the best cruiserweight division ever isn't saying much, when it hasn't been that great of a division to begin with.

You think Holyfield is better than Usyk? Fine. But, the point is that he never had a run that impressive at cruiserweight and at heavyweight he never beat all of the top dogs of his era. Usyk's cruiserweight resume is considered the deepest in the division's history. Holyfield & Usyk are rated #1 & #2 all-time there.

 

[iwannabeadored]

Can't remember the last time all three judges had the same score as me. I figured thery were gona pull some bullshit split decision out of nowhere. Finally Usyk gets a decision he deserves.

Fury didn't look bad though, he lost the rounds but they were competitive rounds, Usyk didn't mop the floor with him even if the score makes it seem so. He is just too good.

Only on sherdog is anyone saying fury got destroyed it was razor close again. The two best heavyweights

I think it's time for Usyk vs Jake Paul

 

[ryun253]

You are not watching peak Fury. peak Fury had much better movement

Peak Fury on coke & steroids?

 

[Mujeriego]

It doesn't matter. Holyfield is far and away a better fighter than Usyk. And that's my point.

So by that logic, Cruiser, Super Middle, Super Light and Bantam were the best weight divisions in the mid 2010s? Because those were the only divisions that had Boxing World Super Series at the time. That logic doesn't hold up. There have been better divisions throughout history, where the "talent was there," that never had this tournament.

Yeah, I've been saying that he covers half of his body with his trunks for the longest. He doesn't wear his pants outside the ring that high. There's no way he has a lower body that long. And then the shot itself landed on the beltline, not below.



Yeah, that's great and all. But I'm not talking about what the fighters have accomplished. I'm talking about how good the fighters are themselves. Saying he beat the best cruiserweight division ever isn't saying much, when it hasn't been that great of a division to begin with.

He can beat only who's put in front of him.
And he did that.
Would he beat Holyfield?
I don't know.
But he beat AJ and Fury twice.

 

[StopDucking]

You know, when I read comments from people on boxing forums like this I can't help but laugh.

First off Tyson Fury was never good. He was only good to delusional biased people who only liked him for clearly obvious reason. The same people who constantly say 180 pound Marciano was a ATG heavyweight.

Fury is pushing 40 years old now. Who has he beat? A 40 year old timid Wladimir Klitschko and didn't even look good. Deontay Wilder a guy who is pushing 40 himself and never did anything in his career besides beat 50 year Luis Ortiz?

Fury throws slapping arm punches. He is never accurate with his punches. Even years ago you will fights where he would land less than 20 percent of his punches. For example he only landed 17 percent of his punches against Francesco Pianeta and only landed 100 punches in 10 rounds.
Fury could never take a punch well which is why light punching 180 pound Steve Cunningham flattened him and light punching Neven Pajkic was able to put him down.


Then we have Usyk. At heavyweight who did he baet? Chazz Witherspoon? A faded Derek Chisora and struggled to beat him. The same Chisora who got destroyed years before by blown up former cruiser weight David Haye. Usyk then beat Anthony Joshua after Andy Ruiz knocked him out first. Usyk then beat Daniel Dubois after slow Joe Joyce beat him first. Then finally Usyk beat junky fat boy Tyson Fury.

Lol now you see these biased people talk about Usyk is a ATG great heavyweight. This is why I can't you people serious and why I rarely post here anymore. Funny stuff.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

He can beat only who's put in front of him.
And he did that.
Would he beat Holyfield?
I don't know.
But he beat AJ and Fury twice.

It's debatable about who is better but Usyk has been more consistent. It didn't take long for Holyfield to lose after moving up to heavyweight. The best of Holyfield's era were more talented overall (Tyson/Holyfield/Bowe/Lewis), which nobody can really argue, but Holyfield was arguably only the third best among them. Lewis beat him, should've been twice, and Bowe also beat him twice to win their trilogy. Not to mention he had a tied rivalry with Moorer.

 

[Superzorro]

You think Holyfield is better than Usyk? Fine. But, the point is that he never had a run that impressive at cruiserweight and at heavyweight he never beat all of the top dogs of his era. Usyk's cruiserweight resume is considered the deepest in the division's history. Holyfield & Usyk are rated #1 & #2 all-time there.

Yeah, I mean it's hard to have a run that impressive when you have to face actual killers. Usyk has quantity. Holyfield has quality.

 

[krelianx]

While it is very obvious Fury is past his prime, it is also obvious he and Usyk, like Klitschkos before them, and even Lennox, represents a paradigm of boxing at HW that is still the standard for efficiency: huge, durable guys with great reach and strong fundamentals, difficult to reach, who play a safe jab and range poke contest, and only go for the finish when the opponent is beyond the capability of retaliation.

Some exceptions have emerged since, but the paradigm remains uncontested. And Usyk at present is far from the best exemplar we've seen of it.

 

[Superzorro]

Your point is shit.

Yeah, people always get mad when I tell them I'm not THAT impressed by Usyk. It was the same with Lomachenko.
"I just don't see it."
"What? He's the greatest thing we've ever seen. It's a privilege to be in his presence and you're hater if you're not as enthusiastic about it as me."

That's usually how it goes... I'd love to see Usyk against an actual killer.

 

[Superzorro]

While it is very obvious Fury is past his prime, it is also obvious he and Usyk, like Klitschkos before them, and even Lennox, represents a paradigm of boxing at HW that is still the standard for efficiency: huge guys with great reach who play a safe jab and range poke contest, and only go for the finish when the opponent is beyond the capability of retaliation.

Some exceptions have emerged since, but the paradigm remains uncontested. And Usyk at present is far from the best exemplar we've seen of it.

I agree with everything except for grouping Lennox Lewis in with them.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Yeah, I mean it's hard to have a run that impressive when you have to face actual killers. Usyk has quantity. Holyfield has quality.

So you disagree with ESPN's assessment? Their respective resumes have been compared before by historians & boxing pundits like the one below (Dan Rafael).

“Usyk's resume in the division has now also exceeded Holyfield's as he has made six defenses, all on the road and all against legitimate contenders or titleholders.”

“It was a sensational ending to what has been a history-making cruiserweight run for Usyk, who has established himself as the best cruiserweight ever.”

Why Oleksandr Usyk is the best cruiserweight of all time

 

[Superzorro]

He can beat only who's put in front of him.
And he did that.
Would he beat Holyfield?
I don't know.
But he beat AJ and Fury twice.

I'm not saying he's a bad person. And I'm not saying he isn't good. I'm just not ready to say he's the second coming of Jesus Christ.

 

[Superzorro]

So you disagree with ESPN's assessment? Their respective resumes have been compared before by historians & boxing pundits like the one below (Dan Rafael).

“Usyk's resume in the division has now also exceeded Holyfield's as he has made six defenses, all on the road and all against legitimate contenders or titleholders.”

“It was a sensational ending to what has been a history-making cruiserweight run for Usyk, who has established himself as the best cruiserweight ever.”

Why Oleksandr Usyk is the best cruiserweight of all time

ESPN is probably the worst publication to listen to when it comes to boxing. They are beyond biased and don't even try to hide it when they play favorites these days. The only person worse than Dan Rafael is Dougie Fischer.

That said, based on what you've quoted, I don't necessarily disagree. I just don't think Usyk is a better fighter than Holyfield. He can have a better resume.

 

[Superzorro]

You know, when I read comments from people on boxing forums like this I can't help but laugh.

First off Tyson Fury was never good. He was only good to delusional biased people who only liked him for clearly obvious reason. The same people who constantly say 180 pound Marciano was a ATG heavyweight.

Fury is pushing 40 years old now. Who has he beat? A 40 year old timid Wladimir Klitschko and didn't even look good. Deontay Wilder a guy who is pushing 40 himself and never did anything in his career besides beat 50 year Luis Ortiz?

Fury throws slapping arm punches. He is never accurate with his punches. Even years ago you will fights where he would land less than 20 percent of his punches. For example he only landed 17 percent of his punches against Francesco Pianeta and only landed 100 punches in 10 rounds.
Fury could never take a punch well which is why light punching 180 pound Steve Cunningham flattened him and light punching Neven Pajkic was able to put him down.


Then we have Usyk. At heavyweight who did he baet? Chazz Witherspoon? A faded Derek Chisora and struggled to beat him. The same Chisora who got destroyed years before by blown up former cruiser weight David Haye. Usyk then beat Anthony Joshua after Andy Ruiz knocked him out first. Usyk then beat Daniel Dubois after slow Joe Joyce beat him first. Then finally Usyk beat junky fat boy Tyson Fury.

Lol now you see these biased people talk about Usyk is a ATG great heavyweight. This is why I can't you people serious and why I rarely post here anymore. Funny stuff.

This.

Usyk is capitalizing on an extremely weak and lazy excuse of a heavyweight division.

Only on sherdog is anyone saying fury got destroyed it was razor close again. The two best heavyweights

It's everywhere. People are saying Fury is delusional for thinking he won. Don't get me wrong, I think Usyk won. But it was close. So was the first fight. This isn't the same as Devin Haney thinking he won against Ryan Garcia.

 

[iwannabeadored]

You're not watching peak Usyk who is older than Fury.

Lol it’s not age. Fury took 3 years off his prime drinking and getting to 400 lbs. Usyk lived like a spartan

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

ESPN is probably the worst publication to listen to when it comes to boxing. They are beyond biased and don't even try to hide it when they play favorites these days. The only person worse than Dan Rafael is Dougie Fischer.

That said, based on what you've quoted, I don't necessarily disagree. I just don't think Usyk is a better fighter than Holyfield. He can have a better resume.

Nobody said that Usyk was a better cruiserweight than Holyfield. All I've ever said is that his total resume is better at that weight. It's quite a bit deeper. That's what Dan Rafael is saying. Doug Fischer is a friend of mine and quite objective. Not sure why you think he's so biased?

Holyfield has the best win between them though and that's Qawi who is a HOFer. He holds 2 wins over him. However, he's only a single scalp that represents like 75% of Holyfield's cruiserweight resume. Aside from him he really only has De Leon on there who was inconsistent and lost to guys he never should've lost to. By the time Holyfield fought De Leon he already had 4 or 5 losses.

 

[Substance Abuse]

Lol it’s not age. Fury took 3 years off his prime drinking and getting to 400 lbs. Usyk lived like a spartan

With Usyk it is.

 

[iwannabeadored]

With Usyk it is.

Lol the fight was razor close again. The fury haters want to say he dominated and fury sucked lmao. Salty.

The post klitschko era has been fun with aj fury wilder and now Usyk. It’s not weak. It’s far far better than the 2000s era and the early 2010s. Other than the 70s and 90s , heavyweights were trash. We had Mike Tyson can crushing in the late 80s and larry Holmes beating bums in the early 80s.

 

[Substance Abuse]

Lol the fight was razor close again. The fury haters want to say he dominated and fury sucked lmao. Salty.

The post klitschko era has been fun with aj fury wilder and now Usyk. It’s not weak. It’s far far better than the 2000s era and the early 2010s. Other than the 70s and 90s , heavyweights were trash. We had Mike Tyson can crushing in the late 80s and larry Holmes beating bums in the early 80s.

It wasn't. You do seem salty.

 

[iwannabeadored]

It wasn't. You do seem salty.

It was according to every pundit and professional boxer lol. Did fury fuck your wife what got you so upset with him lol