Elections Official Sherdawg Presidential debate round 1 PbP

[filthybliss]

If you feel better with a guy that looks like Biden looked the other night making history altering decisions, nothing I can say will sway you. I quite frankly don't want either making that call but at least with Trump he seems to be present and in the moment. Has some ability to focus. He's not truthful, he's narcissistic, but his brain isn't mush like Biden's may well be at this point. (And it's gonna get worse).

Also, as weird as A Rod is, he's likely multitudes smarter than cackling Kamala. And it's pretty doubtful he'd run alongside Trump anyway LOL. I get your point and A Rod is just an example and there could be a wild card etc. I'd say though that Trump is a helluva lot more likely at this point to make it 4 more years than Joe is. I don't want Kamala as likely to be POTUS which is what happens if Biden wins.

President's don't control everything, they have a cabinet. Trump is actively trying to change that though.

 

[brothir]

If you feel better with a guy that looks like Biden looked the other night making history altering decisions, nothing I can say will sway you.

You place way too much value on the performative aspect of politics. We also now know that he was tired from traveling, so the idea that he's going to permanently look weak is unwarranted based on this.

 

[mkess101]

President's don't control everything, they have a cabinet. Trump is actively trying to change that though.

No, but in the most crucial moments they hold an absurd amount of power. It's out of necessity of course but I cannot fathom purposefully putting someone there who **might** have dementia.

 

[mkess101]

You place way too much value on the performative aspect of politics. We also now know that he was tired from traveling, so the idea that he's going to permanently look weak is unwarranted based on this.

He got back to the states 11 days prior, stop buying the excuses. His far off stare with his mouth open is a massive red flag that he's got major issues. Along with his inability to finish sentences.

 

[brothir]

He got back to the states 11 days prior, stop buying the excuses. His far off stare with his mouth open is a massive red flag that he's got major issues. Along with his inability to finish sentences.

Equally explained by him being tired, or having an off night for any reason at all. You still put too much weight on the performative aspect of politics. It's not true that you can predict that Biden will be a bad president for the next term based on this one debate.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Equally explained by him being tired, or having an off night for any reason at all. You still put too much weight on the performative aspect of politics. It's not true that you can predict that Biden will be a bad president for the next term based on this one debate.

This whole stupid argument aside, I think that putting "too much weight on the performative aspect of politics" is a long-running and major obstacle to understanding what happens in gov't here in the WR. One ignorant poster was even mocking the very idea that anyone would care more about policy than the president's ability to put on a show for the media.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I feel I absolutely addressed what you said. And we all "disect the psychology" behind each other's posts nonstop. What you said rings hollow in terms of seeing Joe that way and saying it's just "normal aging and sleepiness". I suppose if you've never been around elderly people you could think him blankly staring with his mouth open and being unable to finish sentences as that (normal signs of aging). But since I've actually been around people Joe's age and the only ones I've ever seen be like that have dementia...there's not much else to say.

Everyone ages differently, Bernie Sanders is older but seems to have more energy so its not simply aging as not everyone looks the same at 82. But I think diagnosing the guy with dementia based off of a few public appearances is the delusional partisan behavior to me.

 

[Islam Imamate]

This whole stupid argument aside, I think that putting "too much weight on the performative aspect of politics" is a long-running and major obstacle to understanding what happens in gov't here in the WR. One ignorant poster was even mocking the very idea that anyone would care more about policy than the president's ability to put on a show for the media.

Right and to the extent that many Democrat insiders are worried about the debate performance its almost completely because of the optics and implications for his electability, not his ability to do the job.

I've always been the opposite in that I care more about the boring day to day details and on that end I think Biden has been exceptional. But if you're someone looking for entertainment then its hard to beat Trump and unfortunately that's a big motivating factor for a lot of American voters.

 

[brothir]

This whole stupid argument aside, I think that putting "too much weight on the performative aspect of politics" is a long-running and major obstacle to understanding what happens in gov't here in the WR. One ignorant poster was even mocking the very idea that anyone would care more about policy than the president's ability to put on a show for the media.

A common cliche I used to hear all the time as a kid is that you're supposed to pay attention to the news in order to be informed. News can inform you that some things are happening, but being informative about the precise details of events or why they holistically matter is not broadly the case with news media in my experience. Leading to unintelligent people being of the wrong opinion that they really get what's going on from the sole fact that they pay attention to the news.

I only really started paying attention to news about 11 years ago, compared to how much I did before that. Since I never cared about staying informed before I didn't really buy into the cliche I mentioned earlier, but I still found it notable how quickly it crumbled after personally witnessing how shallow average news media is.

 

[jrams]

We also now know that he was tired from traveling, so the idea that he's going to permanently look weak is unwarranted based on this.

It doesn't bother you that it takes him 12 days to recover from flying? Every excuse makes him seem even lower energy than just being doped up on cough syrup that night.

 

[filthybliss]

You place way too much value on the performative aspect of politics. We also now know that he was tired from traveling, so the idea that he's going to permanently look weak is unwarranted based on this.

I don't give a shit about looking weak or sleepy. We gotta be honest, it was not an energy issue, he was struggling to compose basic sentences, thats a genuine problem.

Neither Trump or Biden could make a flight of stairs without gassing.

 

[brothir]

But if you're someone looking for entertainment then its hard to beat Trump and unfortunately that's a big motivating factor for a lot of American voters.

I think it's more the media that's excited by that, whereas voters have a more significant ideological component to motivation. Many Trump voters are excited by his performative displays, but they were also excited by Bush claiming God told him to invade Iraq and hated Obama for everything. The media, on the other hand, stand to directly profit from unhinged politicians creating controversies.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Right and to the extent that many Democrat insiders are worried about the debate performance its almost completely because of the optics and implications for his electability, not his ability to do the job.

I've always been the opposite in that I care more about the boring day to day details and on that end I think Biden has been exceptional. But if you're someone looking for entertainment then its hard to beat Trump and unfortunately that's a big motivating factor for a lot of American voters.

I think to a lot of the WR, being informed about politics means being aware of various characterizations of politicians and other people involved in the business and maybe some basic stats (and partisan talking points for why they should or shouldn't be taken seriously), while I think it's being aware of stuff like this discussion between Matt Yglesias and Biden's deputy NEC director Bharat Ramamurti:

The truth about Bidenomics

A conversation with former NEC deputy director Bharat Ramamurti

www.slowboring.com

Just to quote a bit to illustrate:

MY:

It's been interesting to me, you know, looking at the campaign. I mean obviously I'm not sure Democrats have quite outlined their… there's a lot of concern that Trump may win, the senate map is very rough for Democrats. But there's also a chance that Democrats just do well, we take a majority in the House. And then it raises the question of what would they address? What would they prioritize? And I don't know if you have thoughts on that, like if things worked out well, that ended up on the cutting room floor last congress. What do you think is most important?

BR: I think the the fact of the matter is, as you know in 2025, all of the individual tax provisions of the 2017 Trump tax bill expire, so the higher standard deduction and the state and local tax cap and the estate tax. All these different changes worth trillions of dollars are set to expire, and so you know, my prediction is that 2025 will be largely focused on tax policy and what are we going to do about these individual provisions that are expiring. Some of them will raise taxes on people making under $400,000 but a lot of them are about extraordinarily wealthy households. Which of them do we extend, which ones do we modify and so on. So I think that I would not be surprised if a lot of these “social policy arguments” — cost of housing, cost of child care, paid leave, and so on — get mixed up into this tax policy fight. And all of them are potentially… there's an attempt to try to address some or all of them by a tax policy, right? Because when there's one train leaving the station, everyone tries to hook their thing onto the train. Things like housing, it's fairly straightforward to use tax policy to to accomplish. Got the goal there of having more affordable housing supply or things like child care for low income housing tax credit. There's a new thing, a bipartisan proposal called the neighborhood homes credit which is about supporting homeownership.

MY: In terms of like who gets the low income housing tax credit…

BR: Ah, first-time home buyers and so on, you know, ideas that the president has endorsed that I think we can do via tax policy. It's a little bit trickier as we look at childcare and and paid leave and so on. But again, there's ways of at least helping on those issues via tax policy. But then if you start to put those things into the mix, you have to figure out, you know, whether and if so how you are going to address the cost of those provisions using other tax revenue measures. So, I guess my answer would be we're going to have to do something on tax policy in 2025. I think it's a good opportunity to go back and try to do some of the things that I think we know we need to do on these structural problems —paid family leave, child care, housing, and higher education. That's a long list, but that's where I would start, and I think it's good that some of the other really important longstanding priorities, primarily on the supply side, have been largely addressed.

And the last two years, with the Inflation Reduction Act on clean energy, with the infrastructure bill, those are huge, huge things that will pay off in the long term with more productivity in the US economy and more supply. And Secretary Yellen has talked a lot about this sort of supplyside progressivism that is underlying those bills. It's a big deal that we have gotten those things largely out of the way (not to say we're totally done), and then we can go back and focus on these other pieces of unfinished business from the first term. I think that that that's got to be the priority. But again, I would I would venture to guess that a lot of it will happen in the context of a tax fight that has to happen. As you know, Congress is very motivated by deadlines and things that are expiring and that tends to become top of mind.

MY: So essentially, the question is, your best chance of getting anything done is to find a way to hook it into a sort of inevitable clash about expiring tax provisions and whatever you can squeeze into that frame…

BR: Exactly, yeah, I think so.

 

[brothir]

It doesn't bother you that it takes him 12 days to recover from flying? Every excuse makes him seem even lower energy than just being doped up on cough syrup that night.

It doesn't bother me compared to the fact that the Supreme Court have granted immunity to the President for any official act in an attempt to grease up Trump's possible return to power, now as a potential dictator. Priorities.

 

[filthybliss]

No, but in the most crucial moments they hold an absurd amount of power. It's out of necessity of course but I cannot fathom purposefully putting someone there who **might** have dementia.

He'll consult his cabinet before flicking any switches.

Foreign Policy wise, he has restored our relationships with other countries and even strengthened them. Trump has burned so many bridges by being rash: he fumbled the Iran Nuclear Deal, pulled us out of the Paris Treaty, and freeing Taliban terrorists.

 

[brothir]

Neither Trump or Biden could make a flight of stairs without gassing.

The Supreme Court will be looking into banning stairs across America on a strict textualist basis.

 

[Jack V Savage]

It doesn't bother you that it takes him 12 days to recover from flying? Every excuse makes him seem even lower energy than just being doped up on cough syrup that night.

If doing a good job as president involved a lot of physical labor, I would definitely not support Biden (though it's still not clear that he would be worse than Trump--depends on the exact type of physical labor). We'd probably want someone from the NFL or something.

I don't give a shit about looking weak or sleepy. We gotta be honest, it was not an energy issue, he was struggling to compose basic sentences, thats a genuine problem.

Neither Trump or Biden could make a flight of stairs without gassing.

He was struggling to compress his planned response in a short period of time. I don't think it relates much to a real-world situation. But, again, there is an argument that he's not appealing to the kind of ape brain of the audience, who wants someone to appear dominant. And he definitely looks like he could get blown over by a big gust of wind or be hospitalized with a flu or COVID (and presidents shake a lot of hands and are in crowds a lot).

 

[brothir]

If doing a good job as president involved a lot of physical labor, I would definitely not support Biden (though it's still not clear that he would be worse than Trump--depends on the exact type of physical labor).

Trump has a much better record of physically carrying excess weight around and physically abusing women than Biden does. Weinstein next!

 

[mkess101]

Everyone ages differently, Bernie Sanders is older but seems to have more energy so its not simply aging as not everyone looks the same at 82. But I think diagnosing the guy with dementia based off of a few public appearances is the delusional partisan behavior to me.

Haven't "diagnosed" him. There are signs that are impossible to ignore though. As I said in another post--could be him staring with mouth agape happens to be a tic he's picked up that coincidentally mimics that of dementia patients. It's possible. But given his age and the other outward things we are seeing it would absolutely be very coincidental.

 

[filthybliss]

He was struggling to compress his planned response in a short period of time. I don't think it relates much to a real-world situation. But, again, there is an argument that he's not appealing to the kind of ape brain of the audience, who wants someone to appear dominant. And he definitely looks like he could get blown over by a big gust of wind or be hospitalized with a flu or COVID (and presidents shake a lot of hands and are in crowds a lot).

The probability of winning the election aside, I think you are being naive with the application of how the debate translates to the job. If Biden is floundering around in this debate (which he could have recited numerous times to better prepare), how do you expect him to handle foreign policy discourse between other world leaders when there are active disagreements?